1917 commercial

[snoopdawg45]

I have commercial 1917 in 96-97 %. Just a small amount of wear at the muzzle,very light cyl. ring and wear on the ejector rod. I am trying to get a fair market value for insurance. Can anyone out there help.?
Thanks for any help
John

[Wiregrassguy]

Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass John! Before somebody else does, I'll tell you that we need pictures to give you any kind of estimate. I mean there are numbers in the standard catalog of S&W but the condition of the gun needs to be evaluated against those numbers. Commercial 1917 bring a significant premium over the military guns. But just nuances in your assessment of the condition and what somebody else sees is important. So post as many pictures as you can. If you upload to the Forum, you can post 5 / post. If you post them on a hosting site, you can post as many as you wish per post.

Guy

[Hondo44]

There can be a vast variation in value depending on vintage. If it's one of the 991 post war Transtional models, it has the highest value.

In the SCSW reportedly some few of these 1930 rd top frames (991) were also reportedly assembled in the serial range S209792-S210782, many of which shipped in the 1946-48 period, no longer with mushroom knobs.
They can have the straight extractor rod, or the 'barrel' shaped extractor knob, and with the MADE IN U.S.A. stamp instead of the 4 line address stamp. Usually have the large S&W logo stamped on the sideplate.

How does yours compare to the description of the Transitional model above?

[Jack Flash]

To get any kind of ballpark figure, you need to
1. Post some pictures
2. Give the serial number (xx the last two digits if you like)
3. List anything and everything you know about it, plus any extras (box, etc.) you have.
Whether Great-GrandDad bought it new in 1924 or you bought it yesterday in a pawnshop, that is pertinent information.

It probably sounds trite and redundant, but posting pictures will answer a lot of questions like
Blue or Nickel (yes, some commercial variations were - quite rarely - nickeled)
Original Stocks
Original Finish
Unusual Features
Exact Condition
Any Post-Factory Modifications

Obviously, word descriptions are better than nothing, but pictures show things that you or I might not think are important enough to mention. There are some eagle-eyed experts here, take advantage of them!

[Valmet]

Also check over in Gunbroker to see what comparable 1917 revolvers are actually selling for (not what ppl are asking for them) to help get an idea.

[snoopdawg45]

will have some pictures a little later,hopefully. Also, have a letter with this
thanks
John

[iskra]

Little more than to echo prior comments. Greater quality photos, more accurately facilitating resulting estimates.

Below pix, post WWII Model 1917 "Commercial", SN 2099xx. All original except notably later grips. Here displaying the large, portside, S&W logo characteristic of this last, "transitional" edition.
Good luck with research and getting a good estimate!
Happy New Year!
My take

[wheelgun610]

Originally Posted by iskra

... Here displaying the large, portside, S&W logo....

Um, the trademark is on the starboard side on the one in your pic.

Mark

[Muley Gil]

Originally Posted by wheelgun610

Um, the trademark is on the starboard side on the one in your pic.

Mark

It's OK; he's a Coastie. They don't get too far away from the shore.

[snoopdawg45]

iskra
My 1917 looks just about like yours. I have a little more wear on the ejector rod and I have the original grips. I'm trying to get some pics. posted but not having too much luck, but I will get it
john

[beagleye]

Originally Posted by iskra

Little more than to echo prior comments. Greater quality photos, more accurately facilitating resulting estimates.

Below pix, post WWII Model 1917 "Commercial", SN 2099xx. All original except notably later grips. Here displaying the large, portside, S&W logo characteristic of this last, "transitional" edition.
Good luck with research and getting a good estimate!
Happy New Year!
My take

Iskra, it doesn't matter which forum I meet you on, you always have the best guns!

[JSR III]

IIRC, when I last was keeping an eye on the military 1917's, it seemed that they were all going for over $1,000 if in 95% or better. I would think that a similar condition commercial model would be $1,500 and up.

[Jack Flash]

I haven't kept up with prices but my guess would be $2,000 easy for a nice commercial variation.

[snoopdawg45]

Here are the pictures of my 1917 commercial. I also have a letter with it. What do you guys think about the fair market value price for insurance.

[stu1ritter]

Might as well add mine to the pile of post WWII Commercials. I'm 21015x
with a windage adjustable rear sight that was done, I believe, for military fixed sight matches.

Stu

[Wiregrassguy]

Actually, your gun is known as the 1917 Army Post-war Transitional. They made fewer than 1000 of them. Yours was one of the last made. The SCSW, 4th Ed. says $3500 for EXC and $2000 for VG.

[wheelgun610]

Originally Posted by snoopdawg45

... What do you guys think about the fair market value price for insurance.

Are the stocks numbered to the gun? Do you have the original box and all that came in the box? Those would influence what the gun would sell for - as well as what the replacement cost would be.

Mark

[Hondo44]

I agree with Guy above on the model and value.

It matches my description in post #3 for a Post War Transitional Model.

The S s/n prefix indicates they have the Post war sliding bar hammer block safety, the dead gveaway.

[iskra]

Taking it from the top...
1. Mil retired more than a quarter century. No longer the days of 'morning office routine', accessing my safe with my personal coffee grind and reviewing the note taped inside the door: "Port is Left, Starboard is Right." Missing those days... and that note!
2. As acquiring the pictured 1917 some 3 decades ago. Neither I, nor the seller with idea of anything more than a 'clean' 1917! Have 'bungled into' more happy deals than with savvy!
3. This 'Transitional' without the "S" prefix. No recollection whether including the transfer mechanism characteristic of the "S" marked models. Working with photo files and XL spreadsheet data, Physical access not handy, likely to remain a mystery for now.
4. Hi again beagleye! 'Congrats' on membership in the '17 Transitional' club! Quite limited membership! Also, thanks for the compliment but... Maybe to "stop meeting like this." Other collectors will talk!
And...
Just my take

[Hondo44]

Originally Posted by iskra

Little more than to echo prior comments. Greater quality photos, more accurately facilitating resulting estimates.

Below pix, post WWII Model 1917 "Commercial", SN 2099xx. All original except notably later grips. Here displaying the large, portside, S&W logo characteristic of this last, "transitional" edition.
Good luck with research and getting a good estimate!
Happy New Year!
My take

The pre war 1917s post 1936 also have the large side plate logo, so doesn't clinch it as a Transitional Model.

The Transitional Models didn't all have the S prefix but your s/n is in the correct serial range.

When you get the 1917 in your hands again, look for the the notch in the hammer face below the hammer nose (firing pin).

Cock hammer and look in the hammer channel; the sliding bar safety will be obvious and look like a rear sight notch.

Those two things will clinch it as a post war Transitional Model.

[Toyman]

Here is my 1917 commercial serial 210120 shipped October 1946.
The serial number on mine is very close to the one posted above
The front sight has been modified and the back strap has been grooved.

[Hondo44]

That's nice!

I've never seen such a nice front sight modification. It resembles a factory target front sight.
Just doesn't have to be has high w/o the adj rear sight.

[linde]

Originally Posted by Toyman

Here is my 1917 commercial serial 212120 shipped October 1946 . . . The front sight has been modified and the back strap has been grooved.

Originally Posted by Hondo44

. . . I've never seen such a nice front sight modification. It resembles a factory target front sight . . . Just doesn't have to be has high w/o the adj rear sight.

For comparison, below is an early post-WWI Commercial 1917 that went back to S&W in July 1949 for a post-WWII micrometer-click rear sight and factory-made front sight.

Russ

[Toyman]

I lettered the above 1917 and mentioned the grooved back strap. Roy Jinks advised in the letter no note that the factory did the work. The grooving is very similar to factory work and no indication of rebluing.
I am waiting for S&W?HF to finish the 1946 and forward documents scanning to see if anything comes up.
I think the modifications to the front sight are after market.

[Hondo44]

Originally Posted by Toyman

Here is my 1917 commercial serial 212120 shipped October 1946.
The serial number on mine is very close to the one posted above
The front sight has been modified and the back strap has been grooved.

Toyman,

No S prefix on the butt?

[Toyman]

I corrected serial number 210120 no letter prefix

[iskra]

Originally Posted by Hondo44

The pre war 1917s post 1936 also have the large side plate logo, so doesn't clinch it as a Transitional Model.

The Transitional Models didn't all have the S prefix but your s/n is in the correct serial range.

When you get the 1917 in your hands again, look for the the notch in the hammer face below the hammer nose (firing pin).

Cock hammer and look in the hammer channel; the sliding bar safety will be obvious and look like a rear sight notch.

Thos two things will clinch it as a post war Transitional Model.

Thank you kindly Jim for your expertise/advice! Saving your notation to file for reference in my next 'access event'!
Also, trying to interpret your reference to "two things will clinch it... as... Transitional." Mine clearly within requisite qualifying SN range, but... 'IF' it should end up without the requisite safety modification? What result? Some sort of cognizable hybrid? Just conjuring such 'what if' possibility. "IF' mine such, almost certainly to be others!
John

[Hondo44]

Originally Posted by iskra

Thank you kindly Jim for your expertise/advice! Saving your notation to file for reference in my next 'access event'!
Also, trying to interpret your reference to "two things will clinch it... as... Transitional." Mine clearly within requisite qualifying SN range, but... 'IF' it should end up without the requisite safety modification? What result? Some sort of cognizable hybrid? Just conjuring such 'what if' possibility. "IF' mine such, almost certainly to be others!
John

Hi iskra,

I have very little doubt that yours is a true transitional model.

I only ask the questions because I've seen so many anomalies with Smiths lately. Once in a while the answers to my questions surprise me and we learn something new.