I have a chance to pick up the above revolver for $300.00 OTD. Going to look at it today after work. Seller says it's in great shape but describes trigger pull as "a little take up before cylinder starts to turn", lock up is fine. I've seen one photo of the revolver and it looks to be in good shape. The price is right as far as I'm concerned but is the trigger issue that big of a deal?

De Oppresso Liber

Welcome to the '32-20' world..The condition you describe could be a big issue..The piece might need a new hand fitted and possibly a new ejector star..No telling what might be found when you get into it. Just my opinion........Tin...

Every '02 and '05 I have has a 1/4" trigger pull before the cylinder moves. As far as I am concerned, it is normal. A 32-20 in very good condition would command at least $300 today. Ammo is pretty much a reloading proposition if you are going to shoot if often. There are no good deals out there on factory ammo that I have found. Good luck.

Thanks for the replys guys. If it's in good shape I'll buy it. I do plan to reload for it. I also reload for the .38 S&W "Regulation Ploice" I gave to my Grandson this past Christmas (I'm Irish and hate to spend money). It's "hoot" shooting the old ones.

De Oppresso Liber

32-20s are snappy guns with velocities over 1000 fps available in handloads. I like the solid crack on every trigger pull. I find mine to be more accurate than my 38 Specials.

I picked up the revolver last night and upon closer examination it is in fact a 1905 Fourth Change. The frame is a five screw frame marked "Made In USA" and the stocks have been replaced with earlier gold medallion ones. It appears that a previous owner used it as a hammer and damaged the orginal stocks. It was definately a "working gun". Serial numbers match throughout except the stocks. SCSW dates it around 1938-1939 from the serial number, 1154XX. The mystery to me is the caliber marking on the six-inch barrel it is simply "32-20 CTG." According to SCSW it should be 32 W.C.F. CTG. Could this be a transition gun? The serial number on the barrel flat matches the rest of the revolver. I will post some pics tonight when I get home from work.

De Oppresso Liber

I also recently purchased a model 1905 fourth change I believe and it says 32-20 ctg on the 6" barrel.
Any info appreciated.
32calfan

What is the serial number and do you have any pictures?

As promised, here are some pics of my "new to me" .32-20 HE 1905 Fourth Change. Note the barrel caliber marking.

De Oppresso Liber

Very nice. You have an early 1920s gun there, probably before 1925. Correct stocks are diamond wood round top no medallion used from 1920-1929.

Glowe,

Given the Serial No., I think he'll find if he requests a Letter, this was shipped sometime in the Early to Mid-Thirties as the "32-20 CTG" stamping on the Barrel is generally only found on Later Production 32-20 Revolvers!!

The Correct Grips are also going to be pretty hard to narrow down exactly without a Letter as to when it was shipped because, depending on the shipment date, they could possibly be Round Top Checkered Diamond Service Grips w/o Medallions, as you mentioned, or Checkered Diamond Service Grips w/Flush Silver Medallions that came to be in the Very Late Twenties-Early Thirties!!

__________________
Masterpiece

Just to be contrary, I think those are the correct grips (very early twenties).

__________________
Why, I aughta.....

Masterpiece - our database has several sn examples of 32-20s in the 115XXX range and were shipped in the early 1920s

115XXX .32-20 HE\, 3rd Model (1905)\, 4th Change 11/00/1924
117XXX .32-20 HE\, 3rd Model (1905)\, 4th Change 01/00/1924
119XXX .32-20 HE\, 3rd Model (1905)\, 4th Change 08/00/1923

Glowe,

Thanks, I stand corrected!! I guess that proves you can teach an old dog new tricks!! Ha!~Ha!

Now, given that information, does that mean they were using both the "32 W.C.F CTG" & the "32-20 CTG" Barrel Markings at the same time as it was always my understanding that the "32-20 CTG" Barrel Marking didn't show up until Later Production?? Just curious!!

__________________
Masterpiece

Rebarreled? For a shooter, that wouldn't make any difference. In the 1920s, I think the correct stocks would not have the medallion, but who knows what S&W would have done. For shooting, I would put on a pair of Hogues anyway. Your wooden stocks could be restored for less than $100 if you wanted to spend the money. PM me and I'll tell you who to go to.

.32-20 is a simple caliber to reload, you just have to be careful about bullet seating as the case neck walls are very thin and crumple easily. You also need to use .312-.314 diameter lead bullets. I like Lee dies, which include the proper shell holder in the set.

I don't know period correct unless it's at the end of a sentence. What I do know is that gun is a stunner and it's going to be a joy to shoot at the range. Congrats on finding a classy old gun in a fun caliber!

Mike - proper year range for large gold medallion stocks are 1911 to 1920. It is always possible to find an earlier stock on a later revolver, but after 3 or more years into the 20s my guess is still
non-medallion walnut.

My fathers 4th change is 105997 and it has 32 WCF CTG on the barrel.

Presence of MADE IN U.S.A. stamp means after 1922. Shape of ejector rod knob mans before 1928. I'm not sure when the .32 W.C.F. stamp was changed to .32-20, but leaving that aside I'm thinking mid-1920s for this specimen. Which is beautiful, by the way. As others have said, wrong stocks. With a strong light and good eyesight, you might be able to pull the pencil serial number off the inside of the panel and figure out what gun they were on first.

I have only one .32-20, a refinished 1915 specimen. If I ever came across one like yours, I would buy it in a heartbeat.

__________________
David Wilson

Keep in mind that serial numbers can only really be used to get a rough approximation of when a particular gun came off the assembly line and the only thing that is really traceable is the shipping date.
Now, with the .32-20 HE, we can be pretty certain that there was no production after about 1932. Yes, they remained in the catalog until 1940, but they were pulling them from the vault; they were not assembling them for the last 7 or 8 years they were listed. We have evidence of .32-20 HE revolvers with serial numbers over 140000 shipping in the first half of the 1930s.
I would tend to agree that one with a serial number in the 115000 range shipped in the early to mid 1920s. But only a letter will tell you for sure.

What this barrel legend most likely tells you is that your revolver shipped after 1922. The 32-20 HE revolvers carried three different barrel legends during the years of production:
From 1899 until 1914, it said, 32 Winchester CTG.
From 1914 until 1922, it said, 32 W.C.F. CTG
From about 1922-23 until the end of production, it said, 32-20 CTG.
Of course there are overlaps because of leftover parts, but the legend 32-20 CTG did not appear until late 1922 or early 1923.
Jack

__________________
Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

I certainly agree fully with David's last statement.

On the extractor rod knob, 1927 is about right for the .38 M&P. But we've seen the early style knob on .32-20 HEs that shipped later. My thinking on that is that one of two things were going on:
Either barrels were made up ahead of assembly and had the double step machining on them, so older style extractor rods were held back to fit them, and they appeared on .32-20 HEs that were shipped later.
Or else, the rods were just held back because they didn't want to change the machining process for this particular model, which by that time was not selling as well as the .38 M&P. (I tend to favor the first theory.)
I have yet to see a single example of a .32-20 HE with the barrel shaped knob - they may exist, but I haven't seen one that I can recall. If someone has one, I'd like to see a photo of it.
Jack

__________________
Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

This, of course, fits with the barrel legend, as I mentioned in my earlier post.
Jack

__________________
Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

Agreed!
Jack

__________________
Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

To Jack's point about the knobs, I have heard it said that most .32-20 frames and parts had been produced by about 1930, and that while there may have been periods of assembly during that decade, there was virtually no new production. Most .32-20s sold during the 1930s appear to have been made up quite a bit earlier.

__________________
David Wilson

Jack,
That certainly clears up why I've observed quite a few revolvers scattered throughout the 100,000 & up Serial No. Range with both styles of these Caliber Markings on their Barrels!! Thanks, I appreciate it!!

__________________
Masterpiece

A letter sounds like a good idea, given the proliferation of permutations posed by the participating posters. Really nice find Tony! There is a lot of wear on the grips, but the gun doesn't seem to reflect the same use. It will be interesting to see where it was shipped.

__________________
Even older, even crankier....

What barrel lengths where available in the 32 20 ?

Early 1902 and 1905 revolvers were 4", 5", and 6 1/2". Second Change 32-20, 4", 5", 6", and 6 1/2. Third Change 4" and 6". Fourth Change, 4", 5", and 6".

Thanks for the great comments and the education. You guys are the best. I will letter this one and see when it shipped. Here's a couple of more pics. I shot the barrel flat and cylinder to show that it hasn't been re-barreled. I also took a shot of the patent dates and one shot because, I liked it

De Oppresso Liber

I have my sweet wife's grandfather's nickel 5" .32WCF CTG 737xx. Which was previously dated 1919. The old gentleman bought it new, took good care of it, still nice, worth a set of numbered grips that have a gold medallion and are finely checkered. Both her father and brother were not handgun people, so use has been infrequent since Grandaddy passed away in 1964. I also have the old gentleman's LC Smith double from about 1900 with steel barrels. It has been used
a LOT for almost a hundred years, before retired to a place of honor. It still works fine and could be pressed into service.
Jack

That date may be correct. The key reference point is serial number 81287, which was produced in September, 1919. This was the first serial number for a .32-20 with a heat treated cylinder. So, it seems to me that #737xx could be early in 1919 or possibly sometime in 1918. Almost certainly no earlier than that. And 32 W.C.F. CTG would be the correct barrel marking for this period.

__________________
Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

I show two which are close: 72xxx (shipped late 1916) and 77xxx (shipped mid 1917). As yours is between these, early 1917 seems logical as a shipping date. S&W was pretty much out of the civilian handgun manufacturing business during WWI, resuming in early-mid 1919. A factory letter ($50) is the only way to know for sure.