VICTORY Photo Appreciation Thread

[digi-shots]

I haven't seen a thread devoted just to Victory models, so I thought I'd start one. Feel free to post 'em and include any pre-Victory's if you'd like!

First one here is one of my favorites... it shipped to the US Navy, Norfolk, Virginia on May 16, 1944. The revolver, holster and wings all came from the estate of a U.S. Navy veteran who was stationed in the Pacific.

The holster is stamped USN Boyt 44 and appears to be rigger modified with cartridge loops.

[DWalt]

There are tons of Victory threads started in this S&W H-E 1896-1961 category - probably at least one or two every day. In fact, there are so many it might be a good idea to have an area devoted just to Pre-Victory and Victory models.

[digi-shots]

You're right! I should have made myself more clear... I guess I should re-tag the title of the thread "Victory Appreciation Thread".

[kwill1911]

Always love your pictures, Digi.

What I would really like to see is a section dedicated to S&W military handguns--Victory, M1917, Models 10, 14, 15, 36--even the autopistols.

Regards,
Kevin Williams

[DWFAN]

I have many but this is my favorite. Although not the best I have I love the fact that it lived in the unmarked military holster it came with.The muzzle just peeks out of the bottom of the holster about a half an inch. It sat on someones web belt for a long time. V141520
DW

[blockislander]

This came from a Pacific Theater Veteran Navy Pilot also.

[PALADIN85020]

Here's one of mine; it was originally shipped in August of 1942, and was evidently overhauled for use after WWII, in either Korea, Vietnam, or both. It has the improved internal safety block. It's marked "U.S. NAVY" on the topstrap.

John

[DCWilson]

I have a couple of sort of ordinary Victory revolvers (including a conversion that is all original except for the lengthened chambers), and a couple that I consider a little more interesting than most of their V-labeled brethren. I have shown these latter guns before, but since this thread offers an excuse to put them on their leashes and run them around the floor again, here they are:

V573116, a seemingly unfired K-200 that was marked for postwar service in the Austrian Police. The Österreich Polizei/two-headed eagle stamp is seen on the left side of the frame at the knuckle.




The other one is this uncommon snubnose Victory, V629214, that shipped April 12, 1945 to Paris Texas as a DSC purchase. On that day Franklin D. Roosevelt died, Adolf Hitler's personal calendar had less than three weeks to run, the Manhattan Project was 14 weeks away from a successful test of a nuclear device, and the War in the Pacific was 17 weeks away from coming to a sudden end. Busy days.



Linda, thanks for starting this thread. Sets of posts devoted to a particular type or model are always among the most interesting threads on the forum.

[digi-shots]

There are some good looking Victory's here.. keep 'em coming!

Here's one I just photo'd yesterday... it's a "U.S. NAVY" stamped Victory, shipped to U.S. Navy Oakland, California on October 21, 1942. I've had it a while but hadn't gotten around to taking a photo with the waterproof pouch and tracer rounds.

There's a photo of a Navy pilot wearing his holstered Victory in this same type of pouch on page 305 of Charlie Pate's book, U.S. Handguns of World War II, along with a description on page 306. According to Charlie Pate, the Navy appears to have been the primary user, with most observed being used by air crewmen to protect their S&W Victory revolvers. The pouch is a clear plastic envelope with a tab that is secured by a snap.

[DWalt]

"The other one is this uncommon snubnose Victory, V629214, that shipped April 12, 1945..."

That one must have been in storage for awhile. Others around that SN shipped in the mid-1944 period.

[Caren]

Picked up a pretty nice example of an early Victory in .38 Special. I believe it to be a late 1942 or perhaps early 1943. It has no US Property markings of any type. It is numbers matching on the frame, barrel and inside right grip. Research seems to indicate that it was an early issue to an agency or contractor for security guards. I don't think there were many Specials made early on as most seem to be .38. It has "231" stamped on the lower back strap. I'm wondering if that is indicative of the agency/entity it was issued to. The left grip is a different color and may have been a replacement. The inside left grip is not serialized as was often the custom, I'm led to believe. Parkerizing is in pretty good shape. Lockup,is tight but with a bit of a rotational wiggle in the cylinder. Timing is very good. The serial number is V 161147. Can anyone tell me the date of manufacture and perhaps who it was shipped to?

[PALADIN85020]

Originally Posted by digi-shots

There are some good looking Victory's here.. keep 'em coming!

Here's one I just photo'd yesterday... it's a "U.S. NAVY" stamped Victory, shipped to U.S. Navy Oakland, California on October 21, 1942. I've had it a while but hadn't gotten around to taking a photo with the waterproof pouch and tracer rounds.

There's a photo of a Navy pilot wearing his holstered Victory in this same type of pouch on page 305 of Charlie Pate's book, U.S. Handguns of World War II, along with a description on page 306. According to Charlie Pate, the Navy appears to have been the primary user, with most observed being used by air crewmen to protect their S&W Victory revolvers. The pouch is a clear plastic envelope with a tab that is secured by a snap.

You don't see those too often, Linda, but I have one of these pouches also (see above). Amazing that they've held up so long.

John

[DWalt]

V 161147 would likely have shipped late in 1942 - late November to early December.

Regarding the plastic pouches, I would think they would have been used after WWII. Plastic in such applications would not be common at that time. as polyethyline (assuming that it is what is used) was in its infancy then. It was much more common from the Korean War era and beyond.

I have a good friend who is a retired Master Chief Petty Officer, and he spent his entire career in aircraft maintenance on carriers. He's not really a gun guy, but knows some things. He claims that aircrews and pilots used S&W revolvers during his time in service, but their principal use was for distress signalling using tracers. He said that the issuance of flight revolvers was very tightly controlled on shipboard. Check them out when you leave, and back in upon return.

[DCWilson]

Originally Posted by DWalt

"The other one is this uncommon snubnose Victory, V629214, that shipped April 12, 1945..."

That one must have been in storage for awhile. Others around that SN shipped in the mid-1944 period.

Concur. The known DSC authorization to produce two-inch Victories (500 total) came in May 1944, and Victory revolvers of any barrel length that shipped in summer of that year are numbered in the v60xxxx through V63xxxx range. Several of the two-inch variety must have been among them. I doubt the factory pushed out all 500 authorized two-inch revolvers at the same time, but I bet they made a bunch in anticipation of orders for a supposedly in-demand but hard to get model.

A couple of two-inch Victories are known that number in the V663xxx range. These shipped in November 1944 and February 1945 respectively. I imagine they were manufactured in a separate production run (but still part of the authorized 500) later in the year. There are a very few more of these guns known with serial numbers up into the V668xxx range, but all two-inch Victories that I have heard about are numbered below V669000.

It is possible that not all the authorized 500 revolvers were assembled. If we knew of, say, 40 two-inch Victories (hah!), a study of the serial number groupings and a presumption of random preservation might give us an idea of what the production levels actually were. Or we could perhaps find out through a tedious records crawl of all WWII shipments in the preserved S&W records. I am sure we will all have a better idea some day.

Fakes exist, as do armory rebuilds, so one must be cautious about taking any two inch Victory at face value.

[PALADIN85020]

Originally Posted by DWalt

Regarding the plastic pouches, I would think they would have been used after WWII. Plastic in such applications would not be common at that time. as polyethyline (assuming that it is what is used) was in its infancy then. It was much more common from the Korean War era and beyond.

As mentioned by Linda, in Charlie Pate's fine book U.S. Handguns of World War II on page 305, there is a picture of a naval pilot who has his victory model, enclosed in a plastic pouch, in his shoulder holster. It was taken on the U.S.S. Essex following an air strike against Luzon on December 14, 1944. So there is photographic evidence of the plastic pouches being in use in WWII. I used to have several of these pouches, I believe bought at one of the once-popular war surplus stores that were everywhere in the middle 1950s. I have only one left, which is illustrated in my previous post.

John

[DWalt]

Originally Posted by PALADIN85020

As mentioned by Linda, in Charlie Pate's fine book U.S. Handguns of World War II on page 305, there is a picture of a naval pilot who has his victory model, enclosed in a plastic pouch, in his shoulder holster. It was taken on the U.S.S. Essex following an air strike against Luzon on December 14, 1944. So there is photographic evidence of the plastic pouches being in use in WWII. I used to have several of these pouches, I believe bought at one of the once-popular war surplus stores that were everywhere in the middle 1950s. I have only one left, which is illustrated in my previous post.

John

I suppose it was possible, as polyethylene's history dates from shortly before the beginning of WWII. However production of it at that time was very limited, and its use during the war was pretty much restricted to use as an insulator for certain types of electronic wiring. Large-scale commercial production of polyethylene did not begin until the early 1950s. Another possibility would be PVC. It also existed during the war, but like polyethylene, it was also a relatively new material with very limited manufacturing capability and end-use applications until after the war. Possibly some type of cellophane laminate could have been used? It would be very interesting to know the material used to make the WWII revolver pouches.

[PALADIN85020]

Originally Posted by DWalt

I suppose it was possible, as polyethylene's history dates from shortly before the beginning of WWII. However production of it at that time was very limited, and its use during the war was pretty much restricted to use as an insulator for certain types of electronic wiring. Large-scale commercial production of polyethylene did not begin until the early 1950s. Another possibility would be PVC. It also existed during the war, but like polyethylene, it was also a relatively new material with very limited manufacturing capability and end-use applications until after the war. Possibly some type of cellophane laminate could have been used? It would be very interesting to know the material used to make the WWII revolver pouches.

I can't tell what material mine was made of, but it's fairly thick and soft, flexible and translucent. As mentioned, it's held up well.

John

[Texas Star]

I think the Army also used protective covers, probably to protect small arms being carried in invasions like that on D-Day. But Army pilots in the Pacific may have had those plastic pouches for their .45's. I THINK I saw pics of them being used and/or saw some of the pouches years ago. Won't take Cub Scouts honor on that, but am pretty sure.

Don't know the nature of the material, but it was sort of pale yellow, maybe from age. May have been clear when new.

As for pilots and revolvers, that may have varied with the date and the ship. Author Stephen Coonts, who flew Intruders during the Viet war, said that pilots and maybe other officers had small gun lockers in their staterooms or whatever sailors call officers quarters. Based on his fiction, I think he personally carried a privately owned S&W M-19.

You know, I think I've also seen big envelopes, maybe 11X14", of that plastic material. Probably meant to protect documents and maps during rainy weather. Those envelopes seemed stiffer.

I didn't see these covers in the USAF in the 1960's, but I was not flight crew. I was only aboard an AF plane for one mission, and we weren't issued covers, as the flight was all over land. But air crews may have had those. I hope they did in Vietnam, where they might have to ditch in the ocean and suffer the indignity of having to be saved by a Navy helicopter.

I can easily see Army Air Corps pilots flying P-38's and other aircraft over water in the Pacific wanting such items. I know some fighter pilots preferred the P-38 over single engine fighters because if one engine failed, they might get home on the other. It happened. Of course, bombers and transport planes also made many oceanic flights.

P.S. John, will your cover also fit .45 autos? Some Navy pilots had them, and they could have used the same model cover in the Army.

BTW, as a school kid, I looked in old National Geographics and noted that Naval pilots during the Coral Sea and Midway battles all seemed to wear .45's. My guess is that few .38's had reached the fleet by early June, 1942. They had been in production for military use for just a couple of months, and those ships would have sailed well before the battles. I think the Midway fleet was in Pearl Harbor for repair and reprovisioning just prior to that combat.

[Waidmann]

Mine is an SV. US Property/GHD marked.

[digi-shots]

Here's another Victory.... shipped to the U.S. Maritime Commission.

[PALADIN85020]

Originally Posted by Texas Star

P.S. John, will your cover also fit .45 autos? Some Navy pilots had them, and they could have used the same model cover in the Army.

Yes, this pouch is designed to accommodate a variety of handguns. When I had a number of them, I had a few 1911s stowed in them. Once the handgun is placed in the pouch, the open top is rolled down, and then the strap retaining it is snapped into place. It's quite versatile. Here's a shot of the pouch with a full-size .45 in it.

John

[digi-shots]

John, nice pic... Never thought of putting a .45 in the pouch!

[rayb]

Here's one, engraved for a presentation to an Army Colonel post WWII. Previously posted on this forum, with some discussion. Sorry for the duplication.



rayb

[Goony]

Here's one that also was shipped to the United States Maritime Commission.