Days past came to my door one of the most coveted revolver for me, wearing something 20 years behind him, I've always said that these things come to your house ottoman, when they will be for you.
I request your kind of knowledge to date the piece,

The serial is 688XX S, clarified that in my country is completely legal to possess that weapon.

as soon as I can upload a photo

thanks

PD not speak or read English, I am using a translator: D

Welcome to the forum.

You have a very desirable .38/44 Heavy Duty from immediately after World War II. Your gun was probably shipped from the factory in 1946 or 1947.

Congratulations on your new acquisition!

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David Wilson

Welcome to the forum amigo!

Thanks David:

as we near the date,

a question, there is a marked difference between the pre and post war, and only gives the date serial

sure to mention this is my first participation in this prestigious forum, here in my country participated in "armed Mexico Forum," there very often resort to information of this famous forum.

good to be with you

Thanks tlay:

Artillero, you need to know about this web site, which has all the information you need about your gun, as well as all the ones made before and after yours.

Page 1

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David Wilson

Thanks David

Nice gun and very desirable from a collector's standpoint. Keep in mind that it will probably have pre-war length grips which are hard to find and post war grips are in general about a 1/8th and inch short so the frame sticks out a bit.

Take care of that one, it is rare!



It should look identical to the bottom one in this picture.

__________________
SWCA 1646

Dear firends:

take the opportunity to correct an error in finger, the serial number is complete and correct 658XX S, suppose that entry into Mexico when the arms sale was free and not like today there is only one run by the army armory

tanks

Dear Peter:

Thanks for your kind comments,

in Mexico is very, very difficult to get a license collector, is a privilege reserved only to politicians and influential people, ordinary Mexicans, we adjusted for LFAFyCE (federal firearms and explosives control) even so without violating the law can have multiple weapons, as the case my ex military and as active sportsman, so lucky to have such a gun is a true feat and as I wrote before, it was a matter of finding the 20 years, I hope to inherit one of my sons, surely anyone who practices Charreria, which as you may know, the gun is part of our Charro outfit, so this gun will be good weather in the family if God and the economy do not provide otherwise.

I send you a hug

Hopefully before the end of the day I'm uploading some pictures of the "Samaritan" name we gave to this superb revolver
a hug

En engles, "thanks" = gracias. Not "tanks." Your translator must be one of the forum members who can't spell well.(I'm making a joke of it, es una broma.)

Welcome to the board. Bienvenidos a nuestra casa. And I hope I spelled that right. (Welcome to our house.)

Your gun is very interesting, and uncommon today. Is .38 Special the most powerful handgun cartridge that you can legally possess in Mexico?

We have a member who is a Canadian living in Mexico, who operates an ice cream shop. He posts here as Calmex. And there is at least one other Mexican member, posting as Hannibal Barca. I suppose he admires the Carthegenian general of that name who took his war elephants across the Alps to attack Rome. I think our only other native Spanish-speaking member is from Uruguay, but he doesn't post often. We had one from Venezuela, but after Hugo Chavez was elected there, I think he quit posting. Probably afraid to be identified as a gun owner.

It is always interesting to hear from gun owners in other countries. We also have members in Canada, Finland, the UK, Sweden, South Africa, and other countries.

Artillero,
I believe your HD was shipped in Aug 1946. Only a factory letter will tell. I hope this helps and can't wait to see the pictures.
Thanks,
Bill

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38-44heavyduty.com

Texas Star Dear Friend, Thanks for the clarification tanks not hahaha, this translator to use party surely walk for days, hahahahahaha

effectively the .38 spl cartridge is maximum allowed by law in Mexico, so those who know a bit looking for the 38/44 with a good reload and generate appropriate projectile pressures are very similar to 357, without violating the law, even with + p + I'm happy.

of course I know Calmex, also Hannibal, and there is another man named "Tadeusz", these three happy "compadres" monopolize all knowledge of these weapons in Mexico, ademsa be excellent people, I have had telephone conversations with Cal and I wanted to convert an old 44 spl. to 38/44 hd but the difficulty in finding parts, besides treating the old term that revolver had forced me to abandon the project and go in search of the original, I have also been Tadeus house in the city of Mexico, only I need to know in person Anibal.


a hug

Texas Star Friend,

Now that you mention it, of Venezuela know my sacred "compadre" G Jose Leal is another Erudit of these issue, but not only this forum but abandoned the "MexicoArmado" and not fear Chavez (who is already judged of God) jajajajajajaj but because marriage is a beautiful girl who completely absorbs his time, the will give away a pair of knives and sent me a handmade knife (all hidden from Hugo Chavez gloriao queen in hell you are)

a hug

course that helps me dear friend

I'm trying to upload a photo of the gun uncleaned

a hug

Attached Images

DSC08364.jpg (155.2 KB, 167 views)

Now some pictures with a brief cleaning

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	DSC08373.jpg (163.5 KB, 153 views)

Se dice que la música es el lenguaje universal. En este caso, las armas son el lenguaje universal.

Bienvenidos a mi amigo.

(Google Translate es también su amigo)

Bob



It is said that music is the universal language. In this case, guns are the universal language.

Welcome my friend.

(Google Translate is also your friend)

Bob

Eso es muy bueno! ¡Felicidades!!

Bob

gracias Bob,

siempre he creido que la gente de armas es gente muy selecta, gente de bien,

Jose A

Thanks Bob,

I have always believed that people of weapons is very select people, good people,

Jose A.

Yours is pretty much in the same condition as mine, and a lot of the H.D.'s that are around here. Mine came off the presses about 9 years after yours. Either way, the Heavy Duty and Outdoorsman revolvers are the ideal guns for Mexico. Three-fifty-seven power if you want it, yet legal to own and transport if you get the permit. With the Elmer Keith loading, you'll find it's actually got more power than most factory .357 loadings available today -- which would get you jail-time here.

I know you aren't reloading yet, but you should get right on that. You're not getting any younger. You'll find in the meantime that the Aguila factory 158 grain Lead bullet will shoot pretty much where your Heavy Duty points. The 130 grain Aguila will shoot low and I do not recommend it. There is a factory Aguila 158 grain jacketed soft point bullet for sale occasionally down here, and it will hit left or right but about at point of aim.

Remember that there will be a N.R.A. Action Pistol P.P.C. competition in Queretaro on the last Sunday in April so you should come on down if you can get your transportation permit in time and shoot that H.D. in our "Service Class".

You did yourself a BIG favor by getting yourself that revolver. Here's a photo of my own H.D.:

Jose y Calmex-

En brasil, es el .38 Especial tambien mas podre de pistola es valido en la ley.

In Brazil, the .38 Special is also the most powerful pistol under their laws. I didn't use a translator, and hope I got that right. ??

A Brazilian member says that they have a special collector license that costs about $500 USD, but which allows more options. But even nost police there can only have the .38 Special or less.

Smith & Wesson have made some special editions for sale in Brazil. One looks a lot like their .357 Ladysmith Model 65 except for a normal blue finish and the .38 chambering. I think they have also made some Model 686's in .38-only for Brazilian sales. Do they make such guns for sale in Mexico?

The one that looks like a Ladysmith .357 except for finish was also ordered by the bodyguards of the President of France back in the 1960's. The French ones were .357's. I think they mark the Brazilian ones as Model 10, but am not sure, and they are certainly not a normal model 10. They are rare here. i suppose a few were left over from Brazilian orders and were sold on the US market. I've seen pictures of them, but never an actual gun.

It always interests me to know which guns are legal, and where. I think that in the cases of both Brazil and Mexico, the government is afraid of revolutions. So they seriously limit which guns are allowed.

I think the 7mm and.30/06 rifles are also banned in both countries, maybe all .30 calibers. Is that true?

I join you in rejoicing over the death of Hugo Chavez. I hope that Venezuela gets a better leader, but time will tell.
But I am glad that our member there is just busy with his beautiful wife and not hiding from the communist government. In time, Castro will also die, and perhaps Cuba will be more free.

I don't know how to use translators. I have a Russian acquaintance who transmits rather well in English using one, but she cannot sense the exact meaning of some English words or the subtle nuances of some words, spoken in certain ways. Nor can she understand slang words well. But she tries to read stories in English.

BTW, have you read, "The Conquest of Mexico", by Bernal Diaz del Castillo? I read it in English. It has been printed in many languages, I think. It was amazing what the Spaniards endured to overcome the Aztecs! I understand that even today, many Mexicans of Indian blood despise Cortes's mistress, Dona Marina, called Malinali (One Reed) in Nahautl.

Have you heard the legend of the Weeping Woman, La Mujer Llorena? Is this supposed to be the ghost of Malinali? Just curious...

!Abrazos tambien a ustedes, mi amigos! (Hugs to you also, my friends.)

Hi, Texas Star!

7 m.m. rifles were still illegal for civilians when I got here in 1990, but that has been relaxed. If it's a bolt-action rifle, and doesn't have some "military crest" stamped on the receiver there's not much problem registering one. If the rifle that falls into your hands has a Military Crest on in, either remove it, or fill it with something or cover it with something -- or just pay the registry sergeant to "not see it". .30-06 is no problem to have. Military style rifles that are semi-auto are Verhbotten in any caliber. The .30 carbine is Verhbotten, the Garand is Verhbotten, the M1/A, the Mini-14, any semi-auto in .223, 5.56, 5.45, 7.62, .308, 7.62 x 39 and any other military or assault rifle caliber you might like to try to think up. No, you cannot have an FN-49.

I have not read the "Conquest of Mexico" but Gary Jennings' "Aztec" is really good. Jennings sort of went a little flippy after Aztec, and it shows in his writing, but the original "Aztec" is top-notch. Jennings was living here in San Miguel when he wrote Aztec, and I think he still maintained a residence here for quite a while afterwards. I met him in the store (my Ice Cream store) several times and he signed a copy of Aztec for me which I gave away. Later, he signed a pile of copies of Aztec in the local library, which everybody and his dog went and "rented out" and then returned copies that they had forged his signature on. I had a couple of those floating around for a while myself. There's a standing joke amongst my Canadian friends that goes sort of like: "You always got to wonder, is the copy of Aztec that you got from Calmex that was signed by Jennings really signed by Jennings or just another Calmex forgery?" Well, I'll never tell.

The fake autograph thing goes all the way back to before I moved down to Mexico and long before "E-readers" existed. I was in Puerto Escondido for a month that was all too short in 1988 with a best friend. He and I were trying to cut a swath through vacationing Mexican girls with varying degress of success and had to move from our rather pricey "tourist hotel" to cheaper digs if we wanted to continue eating and drinking. Going through my pack to take out all the unneeded clutter before humping it across town to a cheaper beachfront haunt, I found my copy of Pierre Burton's "Vimy", which I had finished reading but kept hanging on to incase I found some hotel with a "book exchange". However, the thought of humping any extra weight in the super-humid-heat of Puerto Escondido mid-day made me decide to dump it. I looked at my friend, opened the front cover and scrawled something with my pen, then threw it onto the night-table. Zipping up my pack, I was ready to leave when I noticed Rick looking into the front cover, balancing his pack over his shoulder and just reading what I had written: "Hope you enjoy the read. Best regards, Pierre Burton."

"You are really a slimeball". He commented. I could only agree, and we left on our way. A few days later, sitting in the intense heat just out on the supposedly "nude beach" which really wasn't all that nude, I caught my friend's attention. I was still smoking at the time, and seeing a pack of real Canadian Player's cigarrettes on the beach towel of another North American couple just down the way made me perk up.

"I'm going over there to mooch some smokes." I told my friend. As he was still smoking Other People's when he drank alcohol, he tagged along. We plunked ourselves down right next to a nice, slightly older than us couple from Toronto and started talking them up. We ended up drinking beer (which we paid for) and smoking their smokes -- which were a lot more expensive to buy in Canada at that time than beer was down here -- and talking Canadian Stuff.

"Oh, let me tell you..." the wife began. "...Harold and I got into our room at the hotel we are staying at, and you'll never guess what we found!" I sort of craned my neck around to look at Rick, who was giving me his squinty-eyed "don't blow this for us" look.

"Uh," I replied. "No, I guess I can't guess. Please, tell us."

"An autographed copy of Pierre Burton's 'Vimy'! You're Canadian, you must know who he is!" Well, it was nice they believed they had an autographed copy of Burton's book, but that story sure went around. After that, whenever I gave someone an "autographed book", it was suspect, obviously.



I can tell you right now that the "weeping woman" is actually my step-duaghter, who just had a break-up with her boyfriend and is driving the rest of our household nuts walking around acting like the World has ended. But yes, La Llorona is a legend the Mexicans know about and depending on their poverty, lack of education or upbringing may or may not believe in to some or another degree. To most, it's just an old Aztec era legend I suppose.

Anyway, gotta run. Easter weekend, you know? In Mexico, that's the same (in terms of business) as Christmas up North in Canada and the U.S. . Here, the BIG weekend is Easter. Semana Santa, and all that. Lot's of Ice Cream being sold today and I need to just sort of sit around here and make sure everything is working the way it's supposed to.

Cheers!

Dear Lone Star:

of how little arms (I admit that my knowledge is very little) I have understood that S & W manufacture a model 585 in .38 Special, for the Brazilian market, finishing the blue, I know because my brother has one of these, is the jewel in his crown, very, very presiso, a beautiful revolver 6 "heavy barrel, has won several competitions with that weapon, in the times that I had a 586 in military .357, perola law requires me to get rid of these weapons to leave the army, now life rewards me with my HD 38/44

on the other hand the federal firearms and explosives control, this poorly written, so that there are situations that defines the military in charge of registration, we enable virtually any rifle, in any caliber as long as no assault either, I for example I have a .30 M1 registered and allowed to move to the shooting range, is easy to navigate in Mexico by the side of the law without violating it, because we are good citizens, bad men do not care enforce the law.

Lorona regarding his is the best I've read and as concise


During the early years of Colonial Mexico there was an indigenous woman of great beauty who became infatuated with a Spanish and they had three children. However this gentleman never married and only visited her on limited occasions, years later, as their interests convenirle Spanish, married a Spanish woman. When indigenous women learned of the betrayal, mad with rage and jealousy to the extent that killed his three children by drowning them in a river, he realized what he had done, full of great pain also committed suicide. Since then, his soul has no rest and every night wandering the lonely streets or near rivers looking for her children and crying over his death, shouting and groaning able to horrify anyone who will listen. Even today, if you pay a little attention, during some nights you can hear his terrible cry "Oh my children," he repeats since the murdered, there are even those who claim to have been attracted by the sight of a beautiful woman dressed in white solitary walking in the middle of the night.

La Llorona is perhaps one of the oldest and best known legends in Mexico and spread to the rest of Latin America certainly has many versions as you can imagine: some say it was the ancient Aztec goddess Cihuacóatl, another version states that may have been the famous Malinche or Doña Marina, who discussed later, there are others, however, place it as a woman of great beauty that existed during the era of colonial Mexico.

But who is this mysterious and yet terrifying woman? Although the origin varies broadly La Llorona is the lost soul of a beautiful woman in white every night wandering the streets or riverbanks, lamenting the loss of her children, her beauty has a great attraction in all men and their moans and groans terrorize everyone who listens.

It is quite possible that this legend has had its origin in ancient Aztec culture, which believed in Cihuateteo, which were nothing more than the spirits of women who died during childbirth and who were honored for having lost the battle represented childbirth, the ancient inhabitants of Mexico Tenochtitlan believed that these spirits could find their children crying at cross roads. It is very common for Cihuateteo are deeply related to the goddess Cihuacóatl (whom we have already mentioned) who, in Aztec mythology, was the first woman to give birth and thus became the patron goddess of childbirth and of women who died in childbirth.

Perhaps this legend was later adopted by the Spanish during the colonial period and was associated with La Malinche or Doña Marina who was the official translator of the Spanish when they arrived in Mexico Tenochtitlan. Like Malinche had a son with Hernán Cortés is considered, among other things, the first mother of Mexico.

Dear Calmex:

I did not know who made ​​eagle on 158 gr, I will ask the Provider to get me in the village store only about 130 grains, these are for peasants like me, and only serve to scare coyotes, jejejejeje

thanks for this beautiful photo that gun

and register the weapon, but still I do not get moving, I promise to come visit someday with my HD and go to hit shots to the field.

a hug

PD where I get the attachment to the handle,
Chinago

Gunner Villa

nice one!!

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Cheers, Charles
SWCA #2442

Welcome to the Forum, and congratulations on acquiring one of S&Ws all time great revolvers.

Viva Felipe Ángeles

¡Viva Felipe Angeles, Viva Francisco Villa!

Tanks Gracias


a hug un abrazo

The "attachment to the handle" is a Tyler T-Grip. You need to order it and pay by cheque because they don't take VISA.

A Forum member here has a similar product that is also very good. Some of the guys here in SMA are using the BK product.
BK Grips | 2-Clip Grip Adapters for Revolvers

The T-Grip/B.K. Grip was not so much an "issue item" as it is a very practical addition to make the revolver easier to shoot -- especially with Heavy Duty powered loads.

It is definitely worth your time to pick yourself up one-or-the-other type grip adapter for your Heavy Duty, you will not regret having one mounted upon it. People value their grip adapters. One of our guys (down here) is currently negotiating to buy Reg. Mag # 103 from a fellow IPSC/Mexico shooter and the photos of 103 showed her to be in nice condition, a 6.5 inch RM with post-war grips and a Tyler grip adapter installed. The last negotiation I heard was "800.00 U.S. takes her but without the Grip adapter".

That made me chuckle.

Cheers!
Cal

As a bit of an aside here, I personally believe that many of the "missing or unknown" RM's and NRM's are simply here in Mexico. Lately, I have run into quite a few of them being quietly offered up for sale at very reasonable prices. A nice one with original grips and good finish wouldn't usually run over 1,000.00 dollars. Often somewhat less. They cannot be registered or legalized here and so they must be kept hidden and only removed from their hiding place for the occasional wipe-down and bated-breath inspection. A large number of my close friends have one now, or have had one until talked out of it by other friends. It's like having that hidden Picasso that Daddy brought back from Europe wrapped in a mortar-round tube. Sure they'll take it from you if they find it but if they don't find it, it's yours.

I think a good chunk of the "missing RM's" are just down here. No boxes (at least I've never seen one) or tools and often with gaudy grips having replaced the originals. But there's probably more in Mexico than most conservative guessers would estimate. In my opinion.

Here's the one my buddy is currently negotiating on. It's Reg. 103. But it comes without the T-grip, so contain yourselves.

Although Artillero de Villa tried to explain an important point, it may not have come through clearly. Up until the 1972 - 74 Federal Firearms Law here in Mexico, things were a lot more fluid than they are now. The .357 Magnum and .38 Super were not illegal (although many U.S. Gunwriters will still talk about the .38 Super being legal for Non-Military use in Mexico, that is wrong and has been wrong since 1974).

But up until that time -- we could say all during the hey-day of the Reg. Mags, Non-Reg Mags, Post-War Pre 27's and early no-dash, -1 and -2 models of the 27 and 28 the border was quite open and thousands of those revolvers came down here. And they never went back home.

After 1974, since those firearms could not be registered, many of them simply disappeared under pillows or into safety deposit boxes or "out on the ranch". And thus we find them today. My own Model 28 turned Model 23 could easily have been a fabled -1 model (although I know it wasn't because I saw it before it was remarked). I have never seen a RM or NRM "customized" into a .38 Special -- and I hope I don't as just about anyone I know here would willingly pay out the 800.00 to 1,000.00 dollars needed to replace one with a Post-war 27 or 28 that could be remarked and legalized and registered so as to save the collectible gun "as is". That's why so many of my friends are now acquiring them; the local market has discovered that if you have an RM or NRM hidden away, you'll get slightly more for it than you'd get for a regular 27 or 28 that can never be registered "as is" -- and our group will help advise you on "legalizing" your new toy in return for having allowed us to "save" another collectible.

How many of the unknown and still missing RM's and NRM's (and Heavy Duty and Outdoorsman revolvers) are down here? Probably more than you'd think, but less than we'd like. But it would be a number I'd love to know. I have my own opinions (unqualified totally), but we are seeing more and more of them quietly appear these days and just as quietly disappear into the safes of the Mexican Practical Shooting community -- a community that has no "member list" nor "central archive". You're either in it -- and know the roughly 40 or 50 others at least by sight -- or you're not. There's nothing more frustrating to Higher Authority than a group of people too lazy (or cautious) to even make up a member list I suppose.

One revolver I have always wanted (but I have as yet never even seen one) is the .38 Hand Ejector "Mexican Model" target revolver. Most of the approximately 2100 made went to Mexico right after WWII via Laredo, and I imagine that many of them are still there, hidden away.

My most recent 4" HD (1954):

Nice HD, very similar to mine which is about 1 to 2 years older. I do not believe I have seen one of the .38 Mexican Models at any time during my travels and if I did it was something I did not realize might be important. I've looked it up since you posted this and will now be on the lookout for one. There's bound to be some around, as they are .38 Special and therefore can be owned legally.

.
Well Cal, I guess you've seen this one, but I'd make trade....
Of course I know that's not possible, but one can dream

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Halfway and one more step

I think that Cal is correct about a large number of collectable Smiths residing in Mexico. Back in the 1940-50's at the beginning of the antique gun collecting era it was common for some of the old timers in the Texas Gun Collectors Association to make forays into the "bush". They often came back with a saddlebag full of Colts...Patersons, Walkers, Dragoons, Pockets, Armies, Navies and Single Action Armies. Those guns now reside in a lot of the well known collections with atmospheric values.

In that era everyone was collecting Colts and Winchesters and few looked at the Smiths (except maybe for Ed Cornett). Unfortunately, those days were in a much kinder atmosphere and there was little or no border crossing problem. Now, I suspect that the diplomatic pouch has replaced the saddle bag.

Bob

Given the current political atmosphere, there's probably very few people on our side with diplomatic pouches actually abusing their privileges. Other countries are other matters. But what do I know? There are -- obviously -- ways for stuff to go from here to there and vice-versa. My own 627 is proof-positive that where there's a will, there's a way.

If I find one of those Mexican target guns, I'll let you know. That front sight is rather distinctive I believe so I'll be on the lookout now.

See there's a lot I don't know about the collector market. I may have seen one of those at some time or other down here and simply dismissed it as a "common old .38" and then asked it's owner "say, you don't have any N-frame Magnums laying around, do you?" But now I know to look and will keep my eyes open.

esa arma es muy bonita

Gracias, a la orden

I made this picture to my 38/44, I share, I hope you will enjoy it

a hug

artilleryman

Attached Images

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	revolver charro Artillero.jpg (153.0 KB, 25 views)

Wow, man! Are you from Parral de Hidalgo? I always tell people that Don Doroteo (Pancho Villa) was killed a block from my store because in the movie with Antonio Banderas -- which was mainly filmed on a ranch just north of here in Dolores Hidalgo -- the scene where Pancho got shot to pieces at the end was filmed a block from my store at the water fountain on the corner of Codo and Hernandez Macias.

Or do you just live close to where he bit the bullet? I mean got killed. Anyway, those photos of your H.D. sure have that "Mexican flavor".

Cheers!

Here's the water fountain on the corner where Antonio Banderas got shot up in the car in his movie about Pancho Villa.

Because I live 45 minutis where Pancho Villa was born.

Coyotada in San Juan del Rio Durango

and thus effectively they murdered in Chihuahua Parral

although the revolver .38 spl is a weapon used by Mexican surpassed only by the .38 Super which is almost worshiped

Photographic composition is not for weapons use Pancho Villa, as you say is only the Mexican flavor

a hug