A dealer has this Pre Model 36 5 screw that shipped around 1954. Serial 319xx. Condition is 98%. Matching grips. No box or tools, etc. He is firm at $800. Seems high but condition is everything. What's you opinion?

__________________
Get off my lawn!

It is a Baby Chief, but I think it's about $200 high. I haven't been following them on the auction sites, so it's just my opinion.

__________________
"I also cook."

It's nice and on auction it may bring that much in a bidding war, but for a sales price I would agree with Chad.

__________________
Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

Thanks. I was just reading in the SCSW that this Transitional model (ramp front sight and rounded trigger guard) should bring a 50% premium. Too bad no box though.
I'm trying to get my small collection going in a certain direction, as opposed to buying everything I like ( well, almost everything, well some things). I love the snub nose guns and have 4 nice ones now and would love to add this one to the pack. I believe just staying with snub nose pistols would be an adventure in itself with the different variations, screws, and calibers out there. I hate to over pay though.

__________________
Get off my lawn!

While I would love to have that gun for $600, that's one that, if I decided I wanted it on a given day, I'd pay the price and never look back. You just don't see them in that condition very often. I've learned over many years of gun buying that if I don't get exactly what I want, down the road price always becomes secondary to my regrets. Of course, I'm very fortunate in that I'm usually able to indulge my sometimes crazy whims .

Does it look like the two side screws have been replaced? The two lower ones are more glossy blue than the top one.

__________________
Get off my lawn!

My guess it is the lighting angle, as the screws look to be untouched.

Also, $800 would be low for an earlier Baby Chief with the half-moon front sight, in this condition; this variation with the ramp front sight is a little more common.

__________________
Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

Thanks Alan, but does appear to have the round trigger guard, correct?

__________________
Get off my lawn!

I saw this one myself, yesterday. I'm sure you noticed the photo you posted has the site's watermark.
To me, it was much too high, even though it appears to be in very nice condition. I don't visit that site very often. Every time I check the S&W and Colt models I like I see only very high prices.

As far as the ramped front sight goes, I think a premium would more likely apply to a first pattern ramped front sight with no serrations, in conjunction with the old rounded trigger guard, and the 5th screw older frame. A half moon or half penny front sight would make the Chiefs worth even more.
This one has the standard serrated ramped front sight which has been used for the J frame ever since and continues today.

The screws are fine. The convex shape of them will bend the lighting a little, just as the finish on the cylinder has to look slightly different than that of the frame, at least in most photos.

I missed getting a "1952" Chiefs Special on Gunbroker yesterday. Maybe it was 1952. It was certainly an old one. # 9995, ramped front sight, no serrations, rounded trigger guard, old pattern hammer and first pattern flatlatch. It had a pretty bad gouge on the right side of the front sight, two small dings on the barrel crown at 4 and 8 o'clock, a small but bad spot of rust on the right side of the barrel, a few specks on the right side of the frame behind the cylinder, and a surface rust haze starting in a few crevasses. The stocks were in pretty good shape. Overall, it was a decent looking old shooter, it would have been perfect for me as only a few of my guns are so pristine that shooting them would ruin their value. I would have cleaned out the rust and pitting with Kroil.
Another S&W Forum member was also bidding. We both dropped out at around $500. It sold for $612.50, which was much too high to me even for a really old Chief, considering it's condition.
Such are auctions........

Instead, I picked up the 1956 Chiefs Special Airweight and matching box for under $500 last week. That one I won't shoot. I carry a twin of it often in the summer, or occasionally as a 2nd gun in the winter in a heavy coat - a 1962 Mod 37. I have a thing for snubbys, especially flat latch snubbies.
If you are interested I posted a thread in this forum a few days ago. Take a gander.

Correct, it's the third (latest) version of the "Baby" - small trigger guard, serrated ramp front sight. One of the members here keeps track of these variations by latest known SN and may be along shortly with more information.

__________________
Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

Listen to this guy !

How long you gonna look to fine another in this condition.


Charlie

I agree. About the same thing happened to me a couple of months ago on a snub nose 10-5 police issued gun. Price was kinda steep but I wanted it. By the time I decided to get it someone had beat me to it. I was upset with myself. But the dealer didn't hear back from the guy and it ended up being mine. I decided then that if I wanted it that bad and the price was somewhat higher than normal, I wouldn't let that stand in the way. The price we overpay seems to catch up in a year or three!

__________________
Get off my lawn!

Everybody's got their own take on this. And, they should!

My experiences have been that every gun I really wanted I was able to find at a reasonable or at at very good price as long as I had patience. This list includes but is not limited to, two original AR-10 rifles, the Sudanese and the Portuguese patterns, various S&W snubbys, Walthers, rare Soviet AK parts, rare M-16 Mod 601 parts, and a few very rare Colt snubbys.

It bothers me to pay a couple of hundred (or more) than I know a gun is worth. I realize this is not an issue to every one. I was gratified to look back and realize that my patience paid off. I think it probably does for most people as well.
I get more excited about finding a rare gun that I got a very good deal on more than one I paid higher than the present value.

jsfricks,

Well it certainly is one fine specimen! I also feel it's priced at a premium level. With box and tools in that condition, I would have bought it on sight. But w/o those I'd feel much better buying it at $600 tops.

However, I won't be the 1st to tell you that the pangs of regret for paying high go away a lot faster than the pangs of missing a nice one you really want. I call it just buying a little early.

I don't want to be an enabler of higher asking prices but premium guns kind of set their own prices! You know someone else will if not you.

A little background on where this 'Baby J' fits in the evolution of this model. It's a little early to be a pre mod 36 which is a full size Chief:

BABY J FRAME:

1952 - Introduced ribbed barrel with smooth ramp front sight, earliest observed #2945 and latest currently known #12340, otherwise much the same features as 1950 issue; then came the serrated ramp sight, lowest known #6541 (12041 earliest observed with new coarse checkered hammer, #45963 highest known with fine knurled early hammer like yours); introduce square butt option on the ‘Baby J’ (c. #21342 per SCSW but #25300 is the lowest known); Magna Stocks on both rd and sq butts. Will still have 1st style flat latch up to at least the 26,000 range, then changed to 2nd style flat latch which yours has. Highest steel Baby known #45963. .

FULL SIZE J frame Chiefs Spl including the Airweight:

1953 - Introduced the Model of 1953 Chiefs Special (pre model 36); new J frame larger grip size and larger, egg shaped trigger guard, eliminated trigger guard screw, the 5th screw, (transition dropping upper sideplate screw, the 4th screw, by at least #968XX), and bright blue finishes. Lowest known # 48452 (with old hammer), and the Airweight Model (pre model 37), lowest known 27107 (shipped w/ alloy cyl April, 1953) up to at least #131612: Highest known fixed sight #65986 Oct 1955 with early hammer.
Four screw 3” barrel with sq butt, serial # 54949 being the earliest Mod of 1953 known to me.

Hope this helps. You only go around once and you could wait another 20 years before seeing another this nice for sale!

__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819

Well, everyone has their take on prices, so for what it's worth, I'll give you mine. A year ago I would have laughed at that price, but in the current climate, it's about "high normal" from what I'm seeing around here. The new norm seems to be that desirable pieces are commanding that kind of price unless you wait (and wait and wait sometimes) for a "sleeper" to come along. I bought the same gun but with about 15% less finish within the last year for $300, but it was a sort of "friends and family" deal and that much of a lesser condition puts a pretty substantial hit on the value. You'll hear people saying how much less they paid for theirs, but you don't see any of them offering one to you for less, do you? In the end, it's always a toss-up you have to make for yourself as to whether to "overpay" for the current offering or wait and hope for a better deal. Good luck regardless and remember, most if not all of us have been there!

Froggie

That is a stunning Baby Chief. The nicest one I have seen. I have 2 in that s/n range. One I stole last year for $300 & the other I got for around $500. That $800 is a little high but if you are looking to buy it to fill a collector niche you won't find one much nicer. In other words...in that condition I would go that high. But I would also make the owner sit on it awhile at that price...he might drop a $100.

__________________
John 1:17
NRA Life Benefactor

Hello Hondo, (re evolution of Baby)

You mention a few highest known and lowest known numbers, and I'm curious as to the source. Is it the collectors' association or your experience?

The reason I am curious is that ,unless I have somehow misunderstood, I have two guns that are outside those ranges. Also, does not a coarse hammer spur hammer fit an earlier gun? Perhaps it was a replacement?

Dave

Unless it's one that you just HAVE to have, IMHO part of the fun of buying a nice old gun (or a not very nice old gun) is getting it for a reasonable price. It's not as much fun when you overpay.

Hi Dave,

Yes, the sources are SWCA database, my in-person observations and of course those reported here on the forum with photos. Shipping dates, when given, are from S&W letters only.

It's a constantly updated and fluid documenting process only used for estimating transition periods. It's not a perfect system but there are no hard and fast documents in existence so all we can do is attempt to gather the pieces we do know and put them together to help identify trends.

I'd be very interested in photos and serials of what you have if you wish to share them here, in a PM or in an e-mail.
Thx,
When we find 'outliers' we discard them. Your example is a good one that could very well be one of those outliers that only a preponderance of more data can verify or discredit.

__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819

This is the Baby Chief you are looking for #1754

Well Shore Gallaries has the same gun as the one at the start of the thread in the 18xxx range and same condition, no box, etc for $995. They seem to be going up instead of coming down!

__________________
Get off my lawn!

Hello Jim,

Thanks for your reply. I have sent you a PM.

Dave

Thanks for all the help on this one but I'm passing on it. With the "return to factory" date stamped in the frame and lack of answers to other questions I had about any "S" or diamond stamped parts (thanks Hondo44!), this one made me too nervous. I don't understand a dealer with as a nice shop as this one not answering any question a prospective buyer has. I guess if you have several pages of shotguns at $50000 up to $200000 my possible purchase wasn't worth it.

__________________
Get off my lawn!

Malysh, I would be the guilty party in this purchase and yes I probably paid too much for the chief. I am new to buying s&w's and my interest initially was to find a good concealed carry revolver for myself, my wife and my two sons. Without a lot of information I purchased a pre model 30 3" for my wife ( she needed something mild to start off) and a model 36 3". After researching and lurking on this forum and other sites I picked up a pre model 30 2", a 38/32 terrier and now the baby chief. Fact is I probably paid too much for all of them.... so goes the modern need for instant gratification. Pretty easy to get hooked on these guns. I have collected pre war Oberndof Sporting Mausers for many years and have always enjoyed reloading and shooting the older classic guns. I am a shooter first and collector second. I don't own any safe queens and I'm still looking for a chief airweight, M40 and M42 to play with.

Cheers to all.

Welcome to the S&W Forum.
And, congratulations on your new S&W baby Chiefs Special

According to the SN on this little guy, he was made in 1952. Smaller Trigger guard, Serrated Trigger Checkered Hammer. Ramp Front Sight. 5 screw. Spent more than most would have but I have no Regrets chief3.jpg