Congrats on getting an excellent revolver!

And a BIG Thank You to Lee, for sharing those pictures, and story, that really brought this exceptional piece of history to life!

Looks like a math error or a typo to me.
With 666 military conversions listed on 204-5, plus 146 commercial converts listed on 203, the number should be 812.
BUT, at top of page 203, the number for the commercials is given as 142. That is where the discrepancy of 4 begins.

__________________
Regards,
Lee Jarrett

I have a triple lock i have been researching for a number of years.
it is a MarkI having the full ejector shroud.
it is a three digit, of the 5000 number.
has no caliber marking on barrel but has british pressure proof marks
on cylinder, etc.
It was at some point coming back here converted to .45colt.
On the metal on the backstrap of the grip is a captain's name.
he was in the scottish highlanders, and participated in the battle of the
somme.
I have his burial cemetery with pictures in belgium kia august of 1916.
I have his birth, home address, parents names, went to university of glasgow where he is on the honor roll for the war.
I also have his picture in military uniform, 26 at time of death.
I think he most likely purchased the firearm from the commissary program the british had for officers, attemping to get a copy of the sales order.
Another man's name is in the wood on the butt. He was a corporal, killed in 1918, and buried in a cemetary north of edinbourgh. His unit of the flying corp was in the somme about the time of my captain's death.
I keep thinking maybe battlefield pickup.
I do know that the british would not allow enlisted men to bring weapons home, but allowed officers to do so. They were afraid of labor unrest, and all those men coming home trained. they did not trust their population.
Thus the firearms registration act of 1920, allowing an officer to keep the gun, but could not have or buy ammunition for it.
Gun shoots good too.
My guy could not have had it for very long before he was killed.
since then i have acquired some medallions etc the royal highlanders wore on their caps and shirts.
A LONG time ago my family was just south of glasgow and my family name at one point originates from that area now called stow, scotland.
the other irony is i have a luger p8 artillery, which i traced to hitler's division the bayerische division, which was in the somme battle. The commanding officer of the unit that gun was in was a german relative.
something to me to have two firearms tracable to two men on both sides.
In research, WWII, i found a distant relative flying a focke Wolfe in the air battle for britain, shot down, repatriated to germany, and killed during the defense of berlin. On the other side, a member of the german's and my family that was killed while serving on the H.M.S. hood, when sunk by the bismarck. There is lots to know about these old guns.
as to the military holster for the triplelock, i only have a repro, but it is pretty neat. It had a flap on the back with a button for quick removal, or carry on the belt. Drain hole in the bottom. I also could comment that revolver is just as smooth as can be in double action, or single, truely a well made firearm when craftsmen were still around
I love this stuff, and that's why i just paid five dollars a round to get some live ammo for a mint condition mauser 71/84. A magazine fed rifle in germany when we were still using trap door.
The other item i am fooling with is a 1855maynard cap system springfield made in 1859. I am sure it was used in the war of northern aggression. I have to resolve and get a few parts for the ramrod, and it's gonna get shot too.

That's a fantastic history you've compiled of the gun's provenance!

The serial # will help us determine for you if it's a 1st or 2nd version Triple Lock built for the British contract, unless it's a duplicated #.

There are three basic versions of .455 chambered Hand Ejector revolvers made by S&W under contract to the British for WW I. All three groups include some triple locks:

1. “.44 HE - 1st Model”, ‘Triple Lock’, .455 Mark II chambering: 812* factory reconfigured, unassembled or unsold ".44 Spl HE 1st Models", often not stamped .455, original chamberings unknown but most or all were likely originally .44 Spl. For the British there are 666 #s1104 thru 10417 (obviously not all serial #s in this range were used for the 666). The extra 146 in serial range #s 9858-10007 went to the commercial market; 123 in England and 23 in the US [N&J pgs. 204-205]. These 812 .455 TLs were serial #’d in the .44 1st Model serial # range of 1 to 15375.

* SCSW reports "over 800", but by shipped serial # count, it’s actually 812, 146 of which are commercial guns [S&W N&J pgs. 203, 204 & 205].

2. “.455 Mark II HE - 1st Model TL” in the new .455 British serial # range 1 to #5461 [H of S&W pg. 201] made 1914-15. Thus creating 63* duplicate serial #s with the 666 “.44 HE 1st Model TL” chambered in .455, 1st version above.

*There are 63 duplicate TL #s existing of the 666 contract listed numbers of .44 HE TLs chambered in .455 (1st version), #s1104-3320 in the .44 HE #range - not all inclusive, known and listed, with 63 of the .455 HE 1st Model TLs (2nd version) #s 1–5461 in the Brit contract # range.


If converted to 45 Colt the correct way, it will still safely shoot the 455 MK I & MK II as well.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

"The other item i am fooling with is a 1855maynard cap system springfield made in 1859. I am sure it was used in the war of northern aggression. I have to resolve and get a few parts for the ramrod, and it's gonna get shot too."

I shoot WBTS firearms, originals and replicas, in competition as a member of the North-South Skirmish Association. If I can be of any assistance in locating the parts you need, send me a PM.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Nere's mine, now 45 Colt ---


Probably a private purchase, only British mark is "Not English Made" on lower right frame ----->

I feel that the 455 guns do not get the recognition they deserve. We who chase history of guns are missing the history associated with the 455's and this one shows what can be found.
Maybe since the history is not of a gun in the USA it doesn't seem so important.

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SWCA 1932 SWHF 135

I know this is a zombie thread, but I was curious about the Young LT's story. I don't know whats been unearthed so far, but let me add the bit that I've dug up.

I think the gun belongs to the father of the man that's highlighted in the book about that units military history. He was a very prominent citizen, listed in Who's Who of Canada.



The father also was retired from Canadian military service, with a LT rank in 1905.




As for the son, Arthur Marshall Irvine (I did not find a Jr. after his name), he attained the rank of Major in WWII, and was awarded an MBE from the British and an Orange Order from the Dutch, and lived at 243 York street Cornwall.

World War 2 Awards.com - IRVINE, Arthur Marshall

Some info on the father:

Arthur Marshall Irvine
Birthdate: July 12, 1881 (71)
Birthplace: Saint John, New Brunswick
Death: Died August 14, 1952 in Cornwall general Hosp., Cornwall, Ontario
Immediate Family:

Son of John Edward Irvine and Julia Elvira White
Husband of Lulah Louise Craibe

"I think the gun belongs to the father of the man that's highlighted in the book"

Possible, but I doubt it. The father left the Army in Apr, 1905, 11-1/2 years before this gun was shipped in Nov, 1916!. Maybe he went back in for WW I, but I doubt that also since he had become so prominent.
I recall seeing other Irvines in the Army in WW I, and I assumed one of them may have owned it, and gave it to young AM when he joined up.


I obtained Irvine's service record from Canada.
I knew he rose to Major, in very quick time as I recall. He was assigned to Bn Headquarters staff.
I don't remember much more. The record went with the gun.

__________________
Regards,
Lee Jarrett

Jim, you lucky dog. This piece is exquisite and the box just makes me melt. I would fall over and pay whatever if I ever got a chance to buy a correct box for my TL Target in 44 spl. Feel free to post a few more pics if you have them, what a gem.

SVT28

Not any kind of provenance to take to the bank, but maybe the father bought it to perform some additional national service after discharge, or to dress up his uniform for formal veteran's remembrances.

Just seemed like less of a stretch than the son labeling a holster for a gun acquired about the time of his birth, with a rank he held only a short time.

No claims, just putting it out there to chew on. Anyway, that is a gorgeous gun, whoever had it first.

Resurrection time for one of my all time favorite and informative threads!!!

To the TOP so that others can enjoy again or for the first time!!!

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Richard
Engraved S&W fan

I believe this thread deserves to get to the top every now and then.

So here goes.

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Expect the unexpected

Oh great...Now that I've read this thread from one end to the other, I'm compelled to find and own my first triple lock, preferably an original .455...Maybe the hospital can wait a little longer for their next payment for my visit from the previous January......Ben

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Cogito, ergo BOOM!...

Look at it this way. There are a limited number of TLs out there. The hospital isn't going to repossess YOU!

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

And there's even less chance my ex-wives would...I like the way you think, Gil......Ben

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Cogito, ergo BOOM!...

I just edited the paragraph that begins with to add a little more data about the beach, the Glens, and about Irvine.

__________________
Regards,
Lee Jarrett

Thanks for bring this old thread up. I had never seen it and greatly enjoyed reading and admiring the old revolver.

Great thread. Enjoyed reading and learning. Here are pictures of mine. 900 range. Appreciate any thoughts from those in the know on where it falls in the series. Thanks!

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Very nice. If you look at post #54 above, I believe your TL falls into category # 2, made as a .455 between 1914-1915.

__________________
John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

This post made my day, thanks.

Wow! Now I gotta have a Triple Lock!

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Paul
Salome, AZ

As some of you know, the late S&WCA member, Larry Gaertner & I collected WW1 T-Locks associated with the Royal Air Force, etc. We probably had two doz+ between us. His were sold at auction after his death, however I still have about 1/2 doz. (Serial # 800 is my earliest one and has all the complete military unit stamping required by British military regulations, according to David Penn, S&WCA member and Curator of Exhibits at the Imperial War Museum, London ) I'm planning a display at the 2023 S&WCA meeting in Phoenix, of one of them - it belonged to an American aviator who joined the RAF early in the war and became an ace, shooting down over 5 German airplanes. He tranferred to the US's Eagle Squadron, when we entered the war, and again became an ace with them. There a small chunk out of the butt of the frame of his T-Lock from where a German machine gun bullet struck it! (Maybe from the Red Baron? ) Ed

All of these .455 TL pics have got me drooling. I love these guns in this caliber. You can almost smell the history on them.

I will share a few pics of mine. Its serial number puts it in the range of guns that made up the last batch, six hundred and something of which were not sold to the Brits, but sold at private sale in 1917 and shipped to Shapleigh Hardware, St. Louis. I hope that I remembered that correctly. It has no acceptance marks, or any marks on it that S&W did not put there. It probably is not quite in the condition that Lee's Lt.'s gun is in. But it is not very far behind it.

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NRA Life Member

It's not a triple lock but a 2nd Model 455 that shipped with racoonbeast's triple lock to Shapleigh in December 1917. If fired at all, not fired much.

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

Wow, that's stunning!

You got the story right if it's in the 12000 serial range listed below:

4th variation “44 HE - 1st Model”, ‘Triple Lock’, same as #1 variation, but not likely converted .44s, just unused frames assembled into .455s:

“As the Brit contracts were finishing up in April, 1916, [H of S&W pg. 203] S&W found enough [HE 1st Model TL frames, possibly already numbered as .44s, and .455 barrels and cyls] to build 691 .44 HE 1st Model [per Roy Jinks in various letters] Triple Lock frames [for chambering in .455* like #1 variation]. These guns are numbered in the .44 Spl serial number series. I have no idea why they were not just numbered in the .455 series. Perhaps it was .455 barrels and cylinders that the factory found, and they simply turned again to existing 44 HE 1st Model TL frames to use them up. They were sold commercially.” Lee Jarrett

* #12496 – cal marked, British ordinance marks for acceptance into military; old TL inventory made 1914, shipped to commercial dealers in England, this one to Bigelow & Co, London, order of 300 revolvers, 12/6/16.
Although the last 691 TLs are likely numbered too high (12000 to 13000 and higher and with the caliber stamped on the barrel), to be the version #1. not cal stamped, they are the same. And not likely or possible to have a duplicate number in the .455 HE 1st Model TL Brit contract serial range #1 to at least #5800, but we don’t know much with certainty about these.

NOTE: in the SWCA database there are two entries for .455 TL's with serial numbers 12740 and 12747. Both entries list shipment to Shapleigh HW; Jinks' entry states that 325 units were shipped on 12/29/17. 12742 and 12787 (letter and gun here, post #14: 1st Model Triplelock's in .455 - What are they selling for these days??) are also known.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Hi Jim. Serial Number is 12770.

I can add that I do know a snippet of its history. It is reported to have spent the last fifty plus years in a large private collection in Texas. I bought it from the estate of that collector. I know nothing of the first fifty plus years of its life. Not as exciting as the story about the Lt. but probably why it is in the condition that it is in.

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NRA Life Member