Greetings,
Hope you can help dial in the history on this one. Have not been able to find a model designation. Markings: Made in USA, 38 S & W Ctg. Serial No. S 901270 on buttstrap. Also, 901270 on inside of grips. 5 inch barrel. Adjustable rear sight. Will attach pictures. Your assistance would be greatly appreciated.

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Well - what you have is a short-barrel Mexican Model . The serial number is late for
a Mexican Model, and I'm not aware of any Mexican Model with a 5" barrel - they were
all 6 inches. The gun is probably a 1947 gun, and its possible that they made some
targets in 5", that were not shipped to Mexico. I'm not aware of any, but a factory
letter will confirm what you have. If they did make it, it would not be called a
Mexican Model, but rather a post-WW2 .38 target.

What are your plans for it ?

Mike Priwer

It's a real treasure, being a K frame target model from just after WWII in fantastic condition.

Is it marked S&W 38 Caliber CTG ? If so it is not 38 Special.

It's a .38 Military & Police Target in the photos. I think I can see .38 S & W Special CTG on the right barrel?

As Mike wrote above, the photos indicate it is a rare variant of an already rare gun, or (just to throw it out there) it may have been modified from a fixed-sight early postwar M & P. The checkering on the stocks is also in an unusual pattern. A factory letter is definitely in order to confirm its configuration:

Firearm History Request - Smith & Wesson

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

The seller said the caliber is "38 S&W ctg." Could it still be a Mexican model if its in 38 S&W instead of 38 special?

Did the factory ever do custom grip checkering like that?

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}-----Jim----->
~SWCA #2732~

It's either a very valuable factory produced gun, or a very well done modified gun. In either case, it's a very nice looking and interesting revolver. I've never seen factory grips with that checkering pattern, but they don't look like they've been sanded down and re-checkered.
I'd encourage your friend to invest in a history letter, especially if he intends to sell this gun. If it's a factory produced special order gun the verified provenance would increase the value considerably.

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John

Its not a Mexican model, after seeing the picture of the rear sight leaf. That is the
later sight leaf, with the grooves in the top strap. I don't know when that came about,
but my guess is with the redesign of the target K-frames in 1948 or so. Ie, the grooves
matched the grooving on the top of the rib.

So -maybe this a 5" M&P that has been modified, or converted to target. With the
high rear sight, and no rib, it would need the very high front sight.

Mike Priwer

I totally agree with JayCeeNC on all points.

Under the heading of a well-done, modified gun, I wonder if it has a factory re-work date on the grip frame under the left panel. If done by the factory it should also have a * on the butt next to the s/n, but I supposed that could have been missed.

The profile of the front sight remind me of my 1917 Commercial that went back to the factory in July 1949 for target sights.







While awaiting a factory letter it might also be interesting to remove the rear sight leaf and see if there are remnants of a fixed sight groove under the leaf.



Russ

First, have a look at this thread, which identifies a similar revolver with a six inch barrel:

A Virtual Mexican (or Model of 1946) Target Revolver

The rare Mexican Model of 1946 does not have the ribbed rear sight foot seen on your gun and the gun in the thread I just referenced. The true Mexican has a rounded rear sight foot that mates with the contours of the frame top. The ribbed sight bases were used for the company's postwar Masterpiece revolvers in .22, .32 and .38 Special calibers. I suspect your gun was originally manufactured in 1947 as a .38 Military & Police with a five inch barrel and fixed sights. At some later date, the adjustable sights were added. Whether the factory had a role in the modification is an open question. Look on the left side of the grip frame under the stocks and see if there is a date code like 6.48, which would stand for June, 1948. Even if the factory did not do the conversion, a competent gunsmith could have bought the new sight parts from the factory and installed them on a customer's M&P.

I think of these guns as Virtual Mexicans because they show very similar features without having been part of the original 3000-unit order from the Mexican government. They are not commonly found. Yours is only the fourth I have seen reference to, and it is the only one with a five inch barrel.

I would spend the $50 to have the company historian letter that gun. If it turns out to have left the factory in that configuration in response to a special order, so much the better. If you find only that it shipped as fixed-sight M&P, that is still good information because it helps you limit the actions that led to its current appearance.

Fascinating gun. Congratulations on owning it.

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David Wilson

Nice pictures Russ and by what Mike Stated mine was done quite similar
It has the ribbed rear sight also . No factory rework marks on it.
Sail of a front sight etc.

Thanks guys I found the thread quite informative

The stocks design (high sharp shoulders, coarse checkering) looks like foreign copy, similar to some Taurus grips. Perhaps earlier foreign copies featured diamonds. In that case, it wouldn't be difficult to replace the Brazilian/Spanish/whatever medallions and washers with S&W parts and add a serial stamp.

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SWHF #448

Spectacular Ropers!

Can we call that model a Combat Mexican, or Virtual Combat Mexican?

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David Wilson

No !

David

The Mexican model was so-named because the guns were made up for a Mexican
contract. Early S-series post-WW2 M&P's, and even pre-WW2 M&P's that were
modified with the redesigned grooved rear sight assembly have nothing to do with
the Mexican contract. They resemble one, particularly because of the very high
front sight, but that's because of the high rear sight that is being placed on the
frame.

At the time those modifications were being done - probably late 1940's to early 1950's -
it was presumably a less-expensive option than simply buying a new target revolver.
If one wanted to convert an early M&P to target, that is how it would come out. I
seriously doubt the intention was to create a look-alike Mexican model.

Regards, Mike Priwer

Mike (or any of the other experts), what's the story with the stocks?

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SWHF #448

Mike, that was a joke!

I see the the geometry and economics of these conversions the same way you do.

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David Wilson

Gentlemen, Was limited in the number of photo's. Per your comments There are rework date marks.. 8.53. There is a star. Will try to attach or embed a picture

Attached Images

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Marked "38 S & W CTG"

Sorry, must enlarge on that. If we all look at the pic of the gun's right side that is attached to the first post, we can see in an enlarged image that the barrel marking is "38 S&W SPECIAL CTG." Alan called that one in post no. 4 above.

Interesting factory rework date. The big R makes me think it went back for a refinish. I suspect the adjustable sights would have been added to the gun before then, but maybe not. We'd need get into the company records and turn up a work order (if it still exists) for that particular gun.

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David Wilson

Thank you all for your inputs. Have sent the request to S&W, along with a good set of photo's. When I get the letter back I will post it.

The grip checkering looks like every other groove was deepened to create half as many lines. And the top half-circle border squared.
The angle of the central diamond looks original.
That's just a guess from someone that has done a lot of checkering...
Obviously the original grips were modified.

Good observation, I hadn't thought of that and was still curious as to what type of stocks those are.

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SWHF #448