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Old 08-02-2013, 09:32 PM
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Default terrier 38 S&W question

Hello all
can anyone tell me the difference in height and length between a 38 S&W terrier I frame and the model 36 J frame?
also i would be interested in the weight difference.
thanks alot
Mike
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Old 08-02-2013, 11:00 PM
Green Frog Green Frog is offline
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Hello all
can anyone tell me the difference in height and length between a 38 S&W terrier I frame and the model 36 J frame?
also i would be interested in the weight difference.
thanks alot
Mike
I don't have both handy to measure, but I believe the diameter of both would be the same. The length of the J cylinder is probably about a quarter of an inch or so longer, at least if I am interpreting my copy of SCS&W correctly. As I have said so many times previously, what killed the Terrier was probably the fact that it was still the little brother to the 38 Special Chief, but was no longer smaller in size, so its reason for being was gone. There was a slight weight difference, but I doubt if it amounts to more than a few ounces.

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Old 08-02-2013, 11:01 PM
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Hi Mike,

Here's what I get for the ones you wanted if they are both round butts:
Add 1 1/4" to both lengths for a 2" barrel.

Terrier I frame: H. 4 1/16", L. 4 7/8", W. 17 ozs. empty

J frame (not the newer J Magnum frame): H. 4 1/4", L. 5", W. 18 ozs. empty
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Old 08-02-2013, 11:33 PM
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Default I frame

Hello all
I am interested in a older 38 S&W terrier. or it may be called something different but i think i will look for one without the model number. i think the five screw with the old style hammer spring, but not the J frame.
I am not a collector so it should help in the search insofar as the finish can show wear but the mechanics should be pretty good.
it will go good with my pre model 10 that was rode hard and put up wet. (not by me)
The terrier dont seem to be very common in my recent searches.
thank you guys for the info.
regards
Mike
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Old 08-03-2013, 12:09 AM
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Mike,
You will find I frame .38 Terriers in these first four post war categories:

1. Transitional I frames c. 1946, leaf main spring w/strain screw on forestrap: These are "6 screw" models, 6 screws in total counting the strain screw: round sight, small trigger guard and short rd grip frame or rebated frame w/sq butt stocks, (all reportedly have new style hammer block). .22/32s and .32s beginning as low as 5346XX (Two in 521XXX range recorded as shipped in 1948 and 9/49, probably do not have the new style rebound slide operated hammer block reportedly begun at # 536,685), #544030 lowest observed; .38 S&W beginning c. 1948 at # 54475; as high as 582XX w/rd top stocks.

---- a) Pre war/post war trans.: uses pre war parts. (includes the non-Model #’d 1957 issue .32 Regulation Police Targets in the low #657XXX range). A few small guns were sold in the late '40s mostly made up from prewar parts. Actual .38 S&W production in volume didn't resume until about 1950, 54804 lowest and 58470 highest known shipped in July 1951.

---- b) Pure post war trans.: uses new post war parts. .32s (up to #550740 highest # known).

2. "Improved I frames" w/coil main spring: "5 screw" model, (the strain, 6th screw was eliminated), otherwise same features as the above Transitionals. Exception: late issues have ramp front sight and barrel rib. These are not pre models. No .22/32s made in this model, .32s (beginning at #554536, lowest # known shipped 12/51, #611398 highest known), .38s (highest round sight 70XXX [#68,XXX 2/53], lowest known ramp site 70131, 71983 shipped Jan. 12, 1954, highest known 738XX).

3. Model of 1953 New I Frames, (the true “Pre-Model #” guns), coil mainspring: These are "4 screw" & "3 screw" models, larger trigger guard (no screw), longer rd butt grip frame and new style sq butt. Bright blue finishes begin to appear c. 1956 and eventually predominate. .22/32s (beginning in new serial range starting w/#101), .32s (beginning at about #613XXX), .38s (a 4 screw, old hammer #7671X, 71983 shipped Jan. 12, 1954, 80627 highest known, a 3 screw).

4. Model #’d guns c.1957, otherwise identical to the Mod of 1953: 22/32 I frames Models 34 & 35 (beginning c. #37XXX), replaced by J frames Oct. 1960, -1 added (c. #70,XXX), the .32s and .38s in early 1961, -1 added (.32s Models 30 & 31 beginning c. #650XXX to #712954, highest # known, and .38s Models 32 & 33, c. #88XXX).


Recently there was a thread you may enjoy about terriers getting a 38 Spl cyl transplant for the very reason you bring up.

38/32 Terrier to 38spl conversion
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Old 08-03-2013, 12:43 AM
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To add a little to what brother Hondo said, there are pre-War Terriers that are built on the I-frame and lack the improved hammer block safety developed during WW II. I have one of these and would be more concerned about its lack of HB S if I were carrying it regularly, but probably not very much. My personal "Grail Terrier" would be one of those very few post-War examples that have the hammer block and still have the flat mainspring... I just like those better than the coil spring for some unexplainable reason. The "Improved I frames" that are still built on the small frame but are coil spring equipped still have the size advantage and to any rational person would probably be good enough. There, have I confused you thoroughly yet?

Froggie
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Old 08-03-2013, 10:57 AM
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Enough talk - must have pictures!

SN 58260
5-screw, old style hammer, smooth trigger, leaf spring, service stocks

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Old 08-03-2013, 01:00 PM
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this one can be had

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Old 08-03-2013, 06:12 PM
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Default WoW

thats about all the info anyone could ask for.
the pictures are nice also.
I may have a lead on a terrier with cracked grips and wanted to know if other I frame grips will interchange? or what could i do to obtain proper grips for the terrier? (are they as uncommon as the terrier pre model)
again thanks a million.
I read the thread on the 38 spcl conversion and it must be nice to have a friend to help with the machine work. nice job.
Mike
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Old 08-03-2013, 06:18 PM
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Two beautiful examples:

gordonrick's a Transitional with leaf spring, post war early Service stocks and later, standard thumb piece.
ky wonder's an Improved I frame with coil mainspring, post war Magnas and earlier, 'single pinch' thumb piece.
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Old 08-03-2013, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hardknocks View Post
thats about all the info anyone could ask for.
the pictures are nice also.
I may have a lead on a terrier with cracked grips and wanted to know if other I frame grips will interchange? or what could i do to obtain proper grips for the terrier? (are they as uncommon as the terrier pre model)
again thanks a million.
I read the thread on the 38 spcl conversion and it must be nice to have a friend to help with the machine work. nice job.
Mike
Mike all I frame guns will not interchange grips:

Pre war and pre 1953 Model New I frame and .38 Spl "Baby J frame Chiefs Special" post war grips are the same size and will interchange.

Model of 1953 New I frame and J frames grip are 1/8" longer and will also interchange. These Model of 1953 grips can also be shortened by 1/8" on the bottom w/o interfering with the checkering, to fit pre Model 1953 guns. These modified grips will look and fit EXACTLY the same!
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Old 08-04-2013, 11:23 AM
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Gordonrick that's a very nice early post war Terrier.

Here is my converted Terrier SN 54843

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Old 08-05-2013, 12:04 AM
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Jeff,

Ah yes, a 38 Spl Terrier exhibiting (except flat silver medallions) all of the characteristics of the very earliest of the post war Transitionals!

And now converted (yet completely reversible with cylinder swap for the purists) to .38 Spl wadcutters; a true little dream gun, smallest S&W .38 Spl existing, and one of very few of these conversions! And maybe the only reversible one.
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Old 08-17-2013, 11:25 PM
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Default t grip

Hello all
have you tried to fit the tyler T grip on a I frame with the coil mainspring. the pre model 38 S&W?
thanks again
Mike
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Old 08-17-2013, 11:49 PM
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No, most grip adaptors would probably be a little too long for the early J frame and I frames since they all have I frame length grip frames with or w/o coil springs, prior to the Models of 1953.

However, any true "Pre model" I and J frames (post 1953 guns) in 38 S&W or any of the calibers have J frame length grip frames and shouldn't be a problem!
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Old 08-18-2013, 02:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hardknocks View Post
.........I may have a lead on a terrier with cracked grips and wanted to know if other I frame grips will interchange? or what could i do to obtain proper grips for the terrier? (are they as uncommon as the terrier pre model)...
I have these genuine imitation stag magnas for an i-frame which could be had quite cheaply. PM me if interested.
BTW I used to have some RB j-frame pachmayer grip adapters which would probably come pretty close to fitting the shorter i-frame. I think they're maybe a bit shorter than a tyler. Even if they're not, being made of hard rubber they could more easily be trimmed to fit.
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Old 08-18-2013, 05:56 PM
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Default thanks

hondo thanks for that info.
hotrod thanks for that offer. the deal on the cracked grip gun didnt pan out.
regards
Mike
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Old 08-23-2013, 07:34 PM
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Default shooter

picked this up. locks up good. timing is good. crane has no play. forcing cone looks good. finish has much to be desired but i was looking for a shooter and carry sometimes piece. barrel looks good. cylinders look good. grips are decent. trigger pull is pretty smooth and just feels right. the sideplate screws look untouched. 68XXX serial number. has some very light rust here and there and most of the cylinder blue is gone. all in at 325.00$ shipped and delivered. i am satisfied as i seen some in the 6-800 dollar range and i dont have that kind of coin. this looks about the same condition as my pre 10 from 1946.
i think its a improved i frame? anyhoo cant wait to get some target ammo. probably pick up a couple boxes of buffalo bore also. I have not cleaned it up yet or removed the grips as it looks like the screw might take a drop of oil overnight to make sure i dont bugger it up.

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Old 08-23-2013, 08:07 PM
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Nice grab, HK! My pre-War Terrier has about the same cosmetics, and IIRC it cost me about $100 more when I got it a year ago. I have to admit that it is the step-child behind my 32 HE snubbie (1950 leaf spring) and my Baby Chief, but it's an ammo situation, and I have a bunch of brass, a bullet mould, and a set of dies now. It should be put into "heavy rotation" soon!

Froggie
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Old 08-23-2013, 09:34 PM
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Yes, an Improved I frame. With an early 'single pinch' thumb piece, the 2nd post war style. And a great little shooter.

Here are the closest serial #s in my database with shipping dates:

67243, round front sight, shipped May '52
68,XXX , shipped 2/53
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Old 08-23-2013, 11:46 PM
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Interestingly enough, after my wife decided her 642 had too much kick with 38 specials, and she shot an old Colt new police of mine in 38 S&W and liked the milder recoil, I thought the Terrier would have been a good carry option for her. a little heavier revolver and less felt recoil...In the end I bought a Colt Pony in 380....still not sure shouldn't have gone with the Terrier....they do however seem to bring a premium if they are in good condition.
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Old 08-24-2013, 07:46 AM
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Default lots of gunk

looks like someone filled her up with oil.
what should i do with the this dirty mess?
Mike
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Old 08-24-2013, 08:31 AM
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looks like someone filled her up with oil.
what should i do with the this dirty mess?
Mike
Buy an aerosol can of brake cleaner (which is ether based) and take the gun and can of cleaner out in the back yard. spray the former into the latter until all of the filth and corruption has been flushed away. Oil lightly on friction points, carefully replace sideplate, screws and grips, take to range, load and shoot!! Looks like you have a gun you can enjoy shooting a lot without fear of wear or harming its "collectibility." Good job!

Froggie

PS All that old gunky oil is not really a "Bad Thing." It has protected the internals and is much superior to a rusty mess!
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Old 08-24-2013, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raljr1 View Post
Interestingly enough, after my wife decided her 642 had too much kick with 38 specials, and she shot an old Colt new police of mine in 38 S&W and liked the milder recoil, I thought the Terrier would have been a good carry option for her. a little heavier revolver and less felt recoil...In the end I bought a Colt Pony in 380....still not sure shouldn't have gone with the Terrier....they do however seem to bring a premium if they are in good condition.
No, they seem to bring a premium if they are just called Terriers. If they are in good condition, they bring ridiculous prices in most quarters... and I'm really not sure why, except that the I-frames "... are the smallest 38 revolvers S&W ever made." (I wonder where I heard that? )

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Old 08-24-2013, 03:32 PM
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Default fun times

Hello All
So i spent about 3 hours cleaning it up.
removed all internal parts and used crocus and a buffer on the sides of the moving parts. didnt mess with the sear or the engagement parts as i dont know enough about it.
even sanded (600 grit) the little stubs the trigger and other parts ride on to pivot.
some oil and re-assembly. first time i done that before but its pretty straight forward.
mechanically the gun is tight and now the barell is looking good. had some lead that came out easily.
thanks for all the info
regards
Mike
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Old 09-01-2013, 10:57 PM
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Default trigger

Hello All
I would like to find a extra trigger for this terrier I could bob the end off so I can swap it out from time to time if I feel like carrying it.
I don't know much about what ones will fit so I could use a little help.
thanks
Mike
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Old 09-02-2013, 12:39 AM
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Bob the end of the trigger? Or did you mean to say the hammer? Looks like a replacement model 36 Chief hammer would fit but I'm not sure. The mainspring stirrup is different on the newer guns, it's got a forked end not a ball end, so you would need one of those if you got a newer-style hammer from Numrich or somewhere.
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Old 09-02-2013, 09:00 AM
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Default o.k.

yes the hammer. I don't want to mess with the original.
thanks for the info.
Mike
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Old 09-02-2013, 07:26 PM
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Mike,

Your Improved I frame (w/coil mainspring) hammer will interchange with any like vintage and model .32 and .38 S&W I Frame, or .38 Spl J frame up to c. 1960.
These hammers use a ball/socket spring strut. After c. 1960 the forked strut replaced it; see pics below. The hammers after 1960 will still interchange but you'll need a forked strut also. Very inexpensive and easily obtainable.

See this thread:
Help me identify my J Frame please

Ball strut rod:
Attachment 123158

Forked strut rod:
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Old 09-02-2013, 09:20 PM
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Default hammer info

Hello Jim
Now I know what exactly to look for the search begins.
thanks
Mike
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Old 09-03-2013, 08:56 AM
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+1 to what Jim said. It will probably be cheaper and easier to find a later hammer and strut together than to try and duplicate the original. Besides, unless the spur were already damaged, no way I would pay for an early hammer just to chop it. JMHO, YMMV.

Froggie
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Old 09-03-2013, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
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Hello Jim
Now I know what exactly to look for the search begins.
thanks
Mike
Do a "smith parts kit" search on e-bay and Gunbroker. Mod 36 parts kits are readily available and you can get a handful of spare parts and screws for the price of the hammer alone. Or "Smith hammer" search.
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Old 09-07-2013, 03:09 PM
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Default Ammo

Hello All
I done some online searching and it looks like I could run a box of 38 short colt Remmington through this revolver in a pinch.
I picked up a box of 38 S&W made by magtech also.
from what I have read the 38 short colt is just a tad bit smaller in diameter but not enough to worry about if I wanted to kill some paper targets.
But im no expert so I come here to ask?
I don't care if its not as accurate as long as it wont do any damage to me.
thanks
Mike
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  #34  
Old 09-07-2013, 05:26 PM
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Mike,

As loaded today the .38 Short Colt is an acceptable alternate round to the .38 S&W. The bullet size is nominally the same so accuracy shouldn't suffer much other than from the lower accuracy potential of the Colt round.

I believe Remington's short Colt is still loaded with a hollow base bullet to achieve a modicum of accuracy when fired in old Colts with the original .380" bore for the original "heeled" bullets (like a .22; same diameter as the case).

Of course if you ran into any original .38 Short Colt heeled bullet rounds, they will chamber in your Smith but you wouldn't want to shoot those and force the bigger bullet down your barrel. They'd most likely be loaded with corrosive black powder and/or have corrosive primers.
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Old 09-07-2013, 05:48 PM
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Default remmington

Hi Jim
the 38 short colt is new manufacture by remmington.
I have yet to try this terrier out but now I have a couple of boxes ready to go.
maybe tomorrow.
thanks
Mike
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Old 09-09-2013, 08:30 PM
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Default yep

tried it out today.
I like it. it shot better with the S&W 38 than with the short colt.
its a nice piece. I really like the older quality revolvers. hard to explain.
thanks for all the info
regards
Mike
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Old 09-09-2013, 10:26 PM
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Mike,
Exactly what I expected:

You would like it.
And the 38 Colt round is not as accurate as the Smith .38, in any revolver.

Enjoy!
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Old 10-10-2018, 11:02 PM
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Mike,
You will find I frame .38 Terriers in these first four post war categories:

1. Transitional I frames c. 1946, leaf main spring w/strain screw on forestrap: These are "5 screw" models, 6 screws in total counting the strain screw: round sight, small trigger guard and short rd grip frame or rebated frame w/sq butt stocks, (all reportedly have new style hammer block). .22/32s and .32s beginning as low as 5346XX (Two in 521XXX range recorded as shipped in 1948 and 9/49, probably do not have the new style rebound slide operated hammer block reportedly begun at # 536,685), #544030 lowest observed; .38 S&W beginning c. 1948 at # 54475; as high as 582XX w/rd top stocks.

---- a) Pre war/post war trans.: uses pre war parts. (includes the non-Model #’d 1957 issue .32 Regulation Police Targets in the low #657XXX range). A few small guns were sold in the late '40s mostly made up from prewar parts. Actual .38 S&W production in volume didn't resume until about 1950, 54804 lowest and 58470 highest known shipped in July 1951.

---- b) Pure post war trans.: uses new post war parts. No .22/32s; .32s (up to #550740 highest # known).

2. "Improved I frames" w/coil main spring: "5 screw" model, (the strain, 6th screw was eliminated), otherwise same features as the above Transitionals. Exception: late issues have ramp front sight and barrel rib. These are not pre models. No .22/32s made in this model, .32s (beginning at #554536, lowest # known shipped 12/51, #611398 highest known), .38s (highest round sight 70XXX [#68,XXX 2/53], lowest known ramp site 70131, 71983 shipped Jan. 12, 1954, highest known 738XX).

3. Model of 1953 New I Frames, (the true “Pre-Model #” guns), coil mainspring: These are "4 screw" & "3 screw" models, larger trigger guard (no screw), longer rd butt grip frame and new style sq butt. Bright blue finishes begin to appear c. 1956 and eventually predominate. .22/32s (beginning in new serial range starting w/#101), .32s (beginning at about #613XXX), .38s (a 4 screw, old hammer #7671X, 71983 shipped Jan. 12, 1954, 80627 highest known, a 3 screw).

4. Model #’d guns c.1957, otherwise identical to the Mod of 1953: 22/32 I frames Models 34 & 35 (beginning c. #37XXX), replaced by J frames Oct. 1960, -1 added (c. #70,XXX), the .32s and .38s in early 1961, -1 added (.32s Models 30 & 31 beginning c. #650XXX to #712954, highest # known, and .38s Models 32 & 33, c. #88XXX).


Recently there was a thread you may enjoy about terriers getting a 38 Spl cyl transplant for the very reason you bring up.

38/32 Terrier to 38spl conversion
What do you mean by “pre models”?
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Old 10-10-2018, 11:31 PM
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What do you mean by “pre models”?
New to this game are you?

That's fine. We all were at some point!

In the summer of 1957, S&W management decided that all the company's handguns would get model numbers. Prior to that time, they only had model names. Beginning at various points in the year 1958, dealers started receiving S&W pistols and revolvers that bore model numbers on them; in the yoke cut on revolvers and on the left side of the frame on pistols.

A few examples:

The .38 Military & Police became the Model 10 .38 Military & Police.

The K-38 Masterpiece became the Model 14 K-38 Masterpiece.

The .357 Magnum became the Model 27 .357 Magnum.

The .44 Magnum became the Model 29 .44 Magnum.

Etc., etc., etc.
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Old 10-10-2018, 11:52 PM
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What do you mean by “pre models”?
A “Pre-Model” is only a ‘named’ model that immediately precedes when the company began the model ‘number’ stamping system, and incorporates all of the same engineering design changes of their model numbered counterparts.

The explicit "Pre-Model" collector term used in the context of S&W collecting should not be confused with the generic meaning of pre model which is a common misuse of the term.

It came about as a label for differentiating between a gun that is stamped with a model # and one made before model #s were stamped, but was otherwise the identical gun.
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Old 10-12-2018, 03:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Hondo44 View Post
Mike,
You will find I frame .38 Terriers in these first four post war categories:

1. Transitional I frames c. 1946, leaf main spring w/strain screw on forestrap: These are "5 screw" models, 6 screws in total counting the strain screw: round sight, small trigger guard and short rd grip frame or rebated frame w/sq butt stocks, (all reportedly have new style hammer block). .22/32s and .32s beginning as low as 5346XX (Two in 521XXX range recorded as shipped in 1948 and 9/49, probably do not have the new style rebound slide operated hammer block reportedly begun at # 536,685), #544030 lowest observed; .38 S&W beginning c. 1948 at # 54475; as high as 582XX w/rd top stocks.

---- a) Pre war/post war trans.: uses pre war parts. (includes the non-Model #’d 1957 issue .32 Regulation Police Targets in the low #657XXX range). A few small guns were sold in the late '40s mostly made up from prewar parts. Actual .38 S&W production in volume didn't resume until about 1950, 54804 lowest and 58470 highest known shipped in July 1951.

---- b) Pure post war trans.: uses new post war parts. .32s (up to #550740 highest # known).

2. "Improved I frames" w/coil main spring: "5 screw" model, (the strain, 6th screw was eliminated), otherwise same features as the above Transitionals. Exception: late issues have ramp front sight and barrel rib. These are not pre models. No .22/32s made in this model, .32s (beginning at #554536, lowest # known shipped 12/51, #611398 highest known), .38s (highest round sight 70XXX [#68,XXX 2/53], lowest known ramp site 70131, 71983 shipped Jan. 12, 1954, highest known 738XX).

3. Model of 1953 New I Frames, (the true “Pre-Model #” guns), coil mainspring: These are "4 screw" & "3 screw" models, larger trigger guard (no screw), longer rd butt grip frame and new style sq butt. Bright blue finishes begin to appear c. 1956 and eventually predominate. .22/32s (beginning in new serial range starting w/#101), .32s (beginning at about #613XXX), .38s (a 4 screw, old hammer #7671X, 71983 shipped Jan. 12, 1954, 80627 highest known, a 3 screw).

4. Model #’d guns c.1957, otherwise identical to the Mod of 1953: 22/32 I frames Models 34 & 35 (beginning c. #37XXX), replaced by J frames Oct. 1960, -1 added (c. #70,XXX), the .32s and .38s in early 1961, -1 added (.32s Models 30 & 31 beginning c. #650XXX to #712954, highest # known, and .38s Models 32 & 33, c. #88XXX).


Recently there was a thread you may enjoy about terriers getting a 38 Spl cyl transplant for the very reason you bring up.

38/32 Terrier to 38spl conversion
I’m getting confused over the “5 screw” and “6 screw”. You mention in #1 above that the transitional had a leaf main spring with a strain screw in the forestrap. “These are 5 screw models and had 6 screws in total”. But then in #2. You say that “Improved I Frame” with coil main spring “5 screw” model, (the strain, 6 screw was eliminated)”. What! I thought that the only way to identify a leaf/flat main spring Terrier WAS the presence of a STRAIN SCREW which is the 5th screw not the 6th screw! Everything I’ve read, every auction site I’ve been to identies the flat or leaf main spring Terrier, which is the smallest.38 two inch made by S&W, by the presence of a strain screw located on the forestrap and this screw was called the 5th screw. Gun Broker advertises Terriers as “5 screw” and “Pre 32”. Where did this 6th screw come in?

Last edited by Duigiud; 10-12-2018 at 03:33 AM.
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Old 10-12-2018, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Duigiud View Post
I’m getting confused over the “5 screw” and “6 screw”. You mention in #1 above that the transitional had a leaf main spring with a strain screw in the forestrap. “These are 5 screw models and had 6 screws in total”. But then in #2. You say that “Improved I Frame” with coil main spring “5 screw” model, (the strain, 6th screw was eliminated)”. What! I thought that the only way to identify a leaf/flat main spring Terrier WAS the presence of a STRAIN SCREW which is the 5th screw not the 6th screw! Everything I’ve read, every auction site I’ve been to identies the flat or leaf main spring Terrier, which is the smallest.38 two inch made by S&W, by the presence of a strain screw located on the forestrap and this screw was called the 5th screw. Gun Broker advertises Terriers as “5 screw” and “Pre 32”. Where did this 6th screw come in?
Good catch, that's a 2013 post which has a typo. It should read:

"These are "6 screw" models, 6 screws in total counting the strain screw:"

The screw counts exist to distinguish otherwise similar model. They're with the highest # assigned to the screw that's deleted first, second, etc.

The I frame is S&W's only model that had a strain screw that was eliminated, hence it's counted as the 6th screw. Member Green Frog gets the credit for this correction in the I frame screw count. I frame 4 screw and 5 screw counts are different screws than K & N frame.

The strain screw is never counted as the 5th screw which is the one in front of the TG, and 4 on the side plate.

You're correct that the 6th screw (strain screw) is the way to ID the flat spring of the Transitional Terrier.

But, the flat spring Transitional I frame Terrier is not the only "smallest version". The Improved I frame with 5 screws and coil mainspring is the exact same size.

The Model of 1953 (Pre Models) are the first to have the larger TG and 1/8" longer grip frame.

Unfortunately most everything read on the auctions and websites about the I frames has errors! The SCSW has been wrong for years. Pg 144 in the 4th edition corrects all of that. Albeit some info in the individual I frame model write- ups in the following pages is still obsolete.
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