[OLD THREAD ALERT! This thread has come back to the top because I replied to a three year old post that I had not previously noticed.]

I have been looking for a prewar .38/32 Terrier for some time to fill a gap in my collection; these rarely seen I-frames were manufactured from mid-1936 into 1940. Recently a seller familiar to many of us sent me photos of two he had in hand so that I could choose which one I wanted. I couldn't make up my mind, so I chose both.

53810, shipped August 1939. Slightly spotty, but a nice gun that I won't be afraid to shoot.







47945, shipped September 1937. Apart from a very light turn ring it looks more like it is 75 minutes old than 75 years.








The postwar transitional and J-frame Terriers are fairly well represented in the collections of forum members, but the prewar specimens seem to be few and far between. I have begun collecting serial numbers to try to estimate how many of the prewar variety may actually have been produced. Anyone who has or knows of a .38/32 Terrier with a serial number below 54474 is invited to post it here -- with pics, if possible!

54474 is reported to be the highest number reached in that serial sequence before production ceased to allow WWII contract production. The Terriers are numbered in the .38 Regulation Police number series. No other models were numbered with them.

The lowest serial number associated with a .38/32 Terrier in the standard sources is 38976, so all prewar Terriers will be numbered within a range of roughly 15,500. Most of those numbers will undoubtedly be stamped on longer-barrel Regulation Police revolvers. In order to establish a likely proportion between RPs and Terriers, I'd like to hear about any .38 RPs that lie in the 38976-54474 range as well.

At the moment, I know of 17 revolvers within that range. Six are Terriers and 11 are .38 RPs. That is way too small a sample set to make any judgments. I'd think I would need at least 150 numbers to make a rough statistical evaluation and three times that many for a reliable one. That assumes that reported serial numbers would be randomly distributed and that all serial numbers in the range were used in production.

Those of you with prewar Terriers, please post them. If you would rather not go public, please consider sending me a PM with your serial number. While I would use the number in summaries and statistical calculations, I will keep the source of the information confidential.

Based on next to nothing except a semi-informed impression, my current thinking is that there were probably not more than 1000-2000 prewar Terriers manufactured, and possibly many fewer. There were only about 1300 prewar Kit Guns manufactured, for example, and I have seen them at auction or in availability lists far more frequently than I have the prewar Terriers.

The six prewar Terrier serial numbers I know at this time are

46877
47785
47945 (shown above)
53810 (shown above)
53816
54267

Apart from my two, I got these from posts in the S&W Forum, auction photos, and a post in a California handgun forum.

UPDATE JANUARY 2015: I have now identified serial numbers for 25 prewar Terriers. Two others have been observed but their serial numbers were not recorded. There should be hundreds of these that still survive. Where can all the others be hiding?

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David Wilson

Very nice indeed David. I too am guilty of having a "show piece" and a "shooter." I'm still looking to acquire a minty '52 Terrier specimen. Lee

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NRA Cert. Inst. RSO

Outstanding!

David,

You already know about my pre-War Terrier, except for the serial number which will be of little help, since at 52362 it is pretty much right in the middle of the known range. I don't have a good picture of it handy, but will try to get something shot this weekend when it rejoins its stablemate and best buddy, my post-War 32 HE snub (also an original I-frame.) In the meanwhile, as I told David in a PM, my Terrier's condition would probably be about 85% on a good day in bad light, so I don't mind carrying it around and giving it some range time. "Pictures at eleven."

Froggie

David
the one I have is 52869 in original Nickel condition 96%.
I will post a picture later.
Jim

Thanks Froggie. Every number helps in a statistical survey. S&W often put I-frames together about 25 at a time, and the interplay between that level of granularity and the average separation between any pair of close serial numbers in the data set can help us work our way to a production estimate.

Jim, thank you too for your number. I look forward to seeing pics of both these Terriers.

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David Wilson

Very interesting post, thank you.

I have a blue .38 S & W Terrier, #46830. Cool little handgun. Mine is in pretty good shape for its age. I have shot it about 100 rounds, very little recoil with factory ammo.

So do you think this serial # approx. 1936 manufacture?

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MSG US Army

VERY NICE!!!

I saw a minty Model 32 not too long ago and scarfed it right up!!!!

Well done, my friend....

***GRJ***

Thanks for the number.

Late 1936 seems to be possible for your gun because one numbered about 40 higher than yours shipped in December of that year. But S&W didn't have a policy of shipping in serial number order, and if your gun stayed in inventory for a while it could have shipped several months later depending on demand.

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David Wilson

"I chose both."... NEVER a wrong answer to the "which one will I buy?" question!

And in this case it was obviously the correct thing to do. Nice score on hard to find high condition I frames.

I look forward to more pics!

GF

they are beauties! i have been searching for a decent prewar terrier for a long time. i have only found 2, and they were both frightful, both very obviously refinished (one was nickel. it was especially scary looking!).

it is good to know that nice ones evidently appear for sale every now and then! i reckon the search is half the fun!

thanks for the pics and info!!!
ed

You want to hear something funny, guys? I "settled for" a pre-War Terrier because I couldn't find the immediate post-War version. Now I'm wondering whether what I have is more desirable from a collectible, hard to find standpoint, or whether the original "target," the post-War true I-frame version of the Terrier will be harder and more expensive to acquire than I had figured(?) I guess that's why they call it "hunting" for what I want, huh?

Froggie

Froggie, I think you may be on to something. Until recently, i knew only that the prewar Terriers were hard to find, but I thought that was because most of them had gone to ground or were locked up in the attics of non-collectors who didn't know what they had. Now I am getting the sense that they are simply uncommon in their own right.

The immediate postwar Terriers that still used the flat spring can't be numerous either. Those would be guns in, for example, the 55000 - 59000 range. I think the coil spring improvement came along just above 60000, but I'm doing this from memory and could be off by a few thousand. Certainly the coil spring guns are easier to find advertised than any flat spring Terrier whether pre- or postwar.

After several hours of internet grubbing, I have found numbers of three more prewar Terriers beyond the ones you, Jim and Chop mentioned. That's a total of 12. I am astonished at how hard these things are to find. At this rate I wonder if I can get to two dozen, let alone three.

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David Wilson

David:

Congrats!! I too would have been hard pressed to choose between the two. Here is the only one that I have (SN 53558):





BTW, I recently found one of those hard to find little burgundy pre-war "patent" Terrier boxes to go with the 98% gun. They really are cool in a petite kind of way.

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Richard
Engraved S&W fan

Those are two beauties.

Post war 38/32 (6 screw) #s I have in my data base are:
Beginning c. 1948 at # 54475, 54804, and 58470 highest known to me shipped in July 1951.

Lowest known Improved I frame (5 screw) is well into the 67000 range.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Thanks Jim. I knew you would have the proper range limits for the different varieties close to hand. So at least 4500 postwar .38/32s had flat springs, but perhaps many more.

I knew about 54804 and 58470 because I have both of those. They are examples of the rarely seen round-butt four inch RPs that I think of as .38/32 dachshunds because they look like long terriers.

= = = = = = = = = =

Edited to take note of Oldreno's 58832, which has a coil spring. (See post no. 27 below)

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David Wilson

Very nice! For some reason, I just keep coming back to this thread to drool over those photos . . . and I've enjoyed the history and posts on them. Very nice indeed!

i have 54891 which has a 2"barrel

I should have acknowledged this when the thread was fresh. That is a nice low number for a postwar Terrier. Can you post a photo?

Maybe your gun should get its own thread, or be added to one of the more recent postwar Terrier threads that have been active in the last several days. This thread has kind of run its course.

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David Wilson

David:

In the last year or so, I've also picked up a well-carried/rarely shot early post war Terrier, SN 56044. It has the strain screw and the shorter pre-war shaped/post-war checkered "service" stocks.

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Richard
Engraved S&W fan

ok i will post more pictures in a thread in a few days. next few days will be busy with college search process for daughter.

Ok, here is one more for your database: 51429 Picked it up awhile back, appears all original with plenty of carry time.


bwade

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	Terrier 2.jpg (100.0 KB, 140 views)

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Blaine
SWCA 3490 SWHF 586

Thank you! I love any prewar Terrier, but a Terrier with character is always a pleasure to regard.

That makes 28 separate prewar Terriers for which I have found evidence of recent existence. Two were observed without having their serial numbers recorded, but based on descriptions they don't appear to be any of the other known guns. One serial number is known from a box sold on Ebay last year; the gun it contained has not been seen.

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David Wilson

David
I don't know if you have the two serial numbers that I have but here they are.
pre war Nickel serial number 52869 only known Nickel 96% black Grips

pre war blued serial number 54329 very late shipment 94 % Black grips

Jim Fisher

Jim, thank you. I do have both those numbers.

I envy you that nickel specimen.

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David Wilson

After reading your post I had to pop the grips of 58832 and sure enought its a coil spring model. Five screw and four line address. I believe its an I frame RB. Long retired LEO revolver with a modifed front sight. This might help fill in the data gap. Do not know when it was shipped.

Oldreno, your serial number is about 350 higher than the highest known number recorded by Hondo44 on a flat-spring I-frame. The coil spring .38 I-frames may have begun shipping in summer of 1951.

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David Wilson

It's easy to tell at a glance whether your gun has a coil spring... if it has no tension screw at the bottom of the front of the grip strap, it has a coil spring. A leaf spring gun needs that tension screw for assembly and tensioning. Hondo44 and I have begun referring to the flat spring I-frames here by the verbal shorthand term "six screw guns" although that is by no means an "official" term.

Froggie

My pre-War Terrier had been moping around the gun safe lately as its friends and neighbors had been getting more attention and range time, so I took it out to the club Wednesday with a box of Remington factory round nose lead ammo and gave it a chance to speak. It is in its totally original configuration including those tiny pre-War grips, but I found it pleasant to shoot and easily controllable. Maybe it needs to go back into EDC rotation again.

Froggie

David, here is #29 if I am correct on your pre-War Terrier list, SN 47204. Just found this in a gun shop in PA online. Was listed as a older Terrier with large front sight. Similar condition as the other one and is all original.

bwade

Attached Images

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	Pair of terriers2.jpg (97.9 KB, 100 views)

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Blaine
SWCA 3490 SWHF 586

Excellent! Thank you for the number. That is a handsome specimen in what appears from the photos to be really nice condition.

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David Wilson

I think I gave this to you before, # 46780 with matching numbered stocks.

Yes, I do have that one in the roster. Thank you for checking.

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David Wilson

David,

Here is another that just sold on Gunbroker:

Smith & Wesson Pre-36 .38 S&W Item-P148 : Revolvers at GunBroker.com

Maybe a forum member got it, kinda rough, but still a pre-war.

bwade

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Blaine
SWCA 3490 SWHF 586

Thank you. I completely missed that one because the seller misidentified it.

I can't read the serial number in the one photo where it appears, but I believe the winning bidder is a member here. I hope he will post about his success and share the details.

I agree completely with your last observation. In my book, "prewar" in this case definitely trumps "rough."

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David Wilson

David, here are a couple of prewar nickel Terriers with SNs 50190 (top) and 52855. I find myself looking for these little guys all the time, hard not to get them when they turn up. How many are in your database now?

Blaine

Attached Images

Nickel Terriers.jpg (150.3 KB, 92 views)

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Blaine
SWCA 3490 SWHF 586

Blaine, thank you for these two serial numbers and my sincere apologies for not having noticed your post until now. With these two specimens there are now 45 prewar terrier serial numbers (full or partial) in the data base. A couple of other prewar Terriers have been observed but were reported without serial numbers.

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David Wilson

If we all ATTACHED pics and then used the attachment links to post them full-size, the pics would be here FOREVER.



Like this-

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Nickel Terriers.jpg (150.3 KB, 404 views)

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

Lee, well they'd be here at least as long as you are for sure
Chuck

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SWCA1517 SWHF256
Rangers LTW!

Better yet is to upload the pix to your album. Then, you can post more than 5 pictures per post and there will be no attachments hanging under your post.

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

David, going back through this, I can't tell whether I ever sent you a picture of my lone pre-War Terrier. If I did, fine. If I did not, would it be of any help to your data collection? No special features and pretty pedestrian condition.

Froggie

As I have already done for several of my old threads that were destroyed in the Photobucket meltdown. To fix this thread I need to rephotograph the guns under discussion, which will happen this weekend. All should be well by Monday.

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David Wilson

I have the serial number, but not an image. I'd be happy to have one if it's not too much trouble. Would it be simpler just to edit an existing post to add the pic?

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David Wilson

It looks like you don’t have a picture because I forgot to take one, David. I’ll try and get one in daylight tomorrow morning.

Froggie

David,

I shot this picture this morning with my iPad... it won’t win any photo contests but it does show my pre-War Terrier. As one would expect, the roll stamped logo is on the other side, on the side plate. Standard wooden service grips with matching SN complete the package.

Froggie

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I have 2 more serials for you to add. 54384 and 46828 are mine. Don't know if you already had them on your list or not.

Thank you. I did have the numbers, but wasn't sure who had told me about them. That's now cleared up, and I congratulate you on both your good taste and good fortune in acquiring them.

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David Wilson

Here is 55522...which shipped in July 1950

..

Robert

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Robert
SWCA #2906, SWHF #760

^^^ Me likey! Nothing like shiny I frames to warm my heart. 😍

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SWCA #3356, SWHF#611

Robert, thank you for letting me know about that one. I have recently begun tracking the postwar Terriers that still have the prewar flat mainspring, and I am happy to add that beauty to the list. Theoretically all flat-spring revolvers will have serial numbers between 54475 and 58831; one count lower than the former number is prewar, and one count higher than the latter is known to have a coil spring.

Interestingly, among guns in this range with known ship dates, those from 55500 to 58100 (inclusive round numbers, not specific) were shipped in the last six months of 1950, while guns with lower and higher serial numbers in the specified range were shipped in July through November of 1951.

The earliest ship date I know among coil spring Terriers is April 1951, so between that month and nearly the end of the year both coil and flat-spring models were being shipped.

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David Wilson