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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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Old 12-31-2013, 07:01 PM
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Default U.S. Navy Victory Model…The Rest of the Story. - FOLLOW UP ADDED!

I purchased this S&W Navy marked Victory revolver along with the pilot holster from a local dealer about 2 years ago and the adventure began there. Amazingly enough, there was a name (Bert Morgan) and flight group (VT-1) still inked on the back of the strap. The revolver is the standard issue U.S.NAVY marked version.




The strap, clearly a riggers addition, holds 31 rounds...have no idea why 31.



After two years of researching military records, identifying the location(s) of VT-1 in WWII (carrier USS BENNINGTON by the way), I was able to contact some of the original surviving crew members. They were able to confirm AMM3 Morgan was indeed on the USS BENNINGTON and provided an "on deck" photo. He was the third crew member on an "Avenger". Planes from the USS BENNINGTON also helped sink the Japanese Battleship Yamato and also overflew the Japanese signing of the surrender onboard the USS MISSOURI.





The only other info they had was he was listed as a student/farmer from Aredale, Iowa. The wife and I saddled the Electra Glide and traveled to Iowa one weekend, just on the off chance we could find more info. After many "have you heard of" and "do you knows", we were able to locate AMM3 Morgan.





We were able to meet his wife and she supplied the "rest" of the story along with a photograph of her husband. Emotional day. As we rode back toward home, I couldn't help think how bittersweet this was. This chapter on my Victory Model and holster was closed, but more importantly, I came a little closer to a common man from Iowa that stepped forward one day when we needed him...and he flew into history.



Thought you might enjoy this story. Rarely do we get to tie the gun to the man. Makes it just a little more "special".

Last edited by 2K7; 07-12-2017 at 01:43 PM.
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Old 12-31-2013, 07:08 PM
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Very cool! Thanks for posting.
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Old 12-31-2013, 07:17 PM
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2K7:

Neat revolver and great history. Thanks for posting.

BTW, what is the serial number on your nice Victory? (I'd like to add it to our Victory Model Database.)
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Old 12-31-2013, 07:19 PM
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Wow.......
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Old 12-31-2013, 07:35 PM
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Great story!
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Old 12-31-2013, 07:36 PM
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Default Charlie,

Sent you a second pm with another one and pictures. Forum message says your message quota is to full to receive it until you delete a few.

Enjoy the pics.

Jed
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Old 12-31-2013, 07:41 PM
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Thank you for posting this, and Thank you ,AMM3 Morgan , for your service. Happy New Year all.
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Old 12-31-2013, 07:41 PM
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Nice story!
Only thing I don't understand is what does a snipe need a revolver for?
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Old 12-31-2013, 07:54 PM
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Aircrew. AMM= Aviation Machinists Mate 3rd Class. E-4. The guy in the back seat manning the gun or torpedo needed a sidearm just as much as the guy in the front seat driving.
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Old 12-31-2013, 07:57 PM
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Thanks for doing some outstanding research. Whenever we can link one of these old workhorses to the warriors who used them we are touching the face of the past. Good work!

Bob
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Old 12-31-2013, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STCM(SW) View Post
Nice story!
Only thing I don't understand is what does a snipe need a revolver for?
Issue for aircrew. Besides self-defense (many preferred revolvers for reliability in a salt-water environment), but also (and perhaps primarily) for signalling; there was a tracer round issued for the revolver.
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Old 12-31-2013, 08:00 PM
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Great post. Good job on your research too. Thank you.
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Old 12-31-2013, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STCM(SW) View Post
Nice story!
Only thing I don't understand is what does a snipe need a revolver for?
Okay what is AMM3 and a snipe?
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Old 12-31-2013, 08:30 PM
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Okay what is AMM3 and a snipe?
AMM3 is an Aviation Machinist's Mate 3d Class
A 'snipe' is slang for a ship's engine room crewmember. They are also known as 'the black gang', due to coal dust or fuel oil.
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Old 12-31-2013, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
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Aircrew. AMM= Aviation Machinists Mate 3rd Class. E-4. The guy in the back seat manning the gun or torpedo needed a sidearm just as much as the guy in the front seat driving.
One of the perplexing questions I had to ask as well, not being a Navy guy. Why would the guy that "wrenched" the plane need a revolver.

After speaking with "old crew" members from the USS BENNINGTON, they schooled me on the issue, damned fast!

AMM3 was the 3rd crew member on the plane and his position was facing backwards in the belly of the plane manning the rear machine guns just forward of the tail wheel.

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Old 12-31-2013, 08:35 PM
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And a fellow sailor would think I don't know what a AMM3 is?
Sad.....
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Old 12-31-2013, 08:53 PM
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From Wiki on the third crew-member, who was also the bombardier/radio operator:
"his gun was fired by the radioman/bombardier while standing up and bending over in the belly of the tail section, though he usually sat on a folding bench facing forward to operate the radio and to sight in bombing runs. Later models of the TBF/TBM dispensed with the nose-mounted gun for one .50 caliber gun in each wing per pilots' requests for better forward firepower and increased strafing ability. There was only one set of controls on the aircraft, and no access to the pilot's position from the rest of the aircraft. The radio equipment was massive, especially by today's standards, and filled the whole glass canopy to the rear of the pilot. The radios were accessible for repair through a "tunnel" along the right hand side."-- Grumman TBF Avenger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Enlisted rank didn't directly correlate to duties. For example, my father was an Aviation Metalsmith, but flew as a gunner in SBDs.
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Old 12-31-2013, 08:53 PM
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BTW, this is a most fascinating thread drift!
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Old 12-31-2013, 09:01 PM
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What a story…..great research,…. a great weapon, and rig…… that helped win WW2……Thank you AMM3 Morgan….for your service to this country……

Semper Fi!
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Old 12-31-2013, 09:27 PM
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This is probably the best thread if its type I have read here.

Truly the Greatest Generation.
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Old 12-31-2013, 09:37 PM
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What an edifying post! Thanks for sharing your work.

Jerry
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Old 12-31-2013, 09:47 PM
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Did you ever get a factory letter? You are a lucky man to have found that rig and then the rest of the story. I especially like the gravesite photo. Well done!
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Old 12-31-2013, 10:21 PM
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That's awesome.

the original point and click interface, by Smith and Wesson
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Old 12-31-2013, 10:28 PM
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Great story and thanks for sharing.
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Old 12-31-2013, 10:48 PM
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Thank you for your research and for sharing this perspective on a piece of our country's history.
Dave
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Old 12-31-2013, 10:57 PM
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The amazing thing about these old vets is how humble they are. I had an older gentleman thank me for my service when he found out I was a retired Chief. I said your welcome and noticed a ring on his hand as I was shaking it. I asked "which academy?". Turns out he was a Naval Academy grad, class of 43 (I think) and had ended the war onboard a sub in the Pacific making war against Jap convoys. I was awestruck (being a submariner myself) and told him I should be thanking him instead. His reply was "But I only served 4 years"!
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Old 12-31-2013, 11:06 PM
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Great story!
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Old 01-01-2014, 12:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pineappleshooter View Post
The amazing thing about these old vets is how humble they are. I had an older gentleman thank me for my service when he found out I was a retired Chief. I said your welcome and noticed a ring on his hand as I was shaking it. I asked "which academy?". Turns out he was a Naval Academy grad, class of 43 (I think) and had ended the war onboard a sub in the Pacific making war against Jap convoys. I was awestruck (being a submariner myself) and told him I should be thanking him instead. His reply was "But I only served 4 years"!
But in those four short years he and his mates established the traditions and standards you lived by during your career. As you so well know, the US Navy Submarine Service suffered proportionately the most casualties (almost all fatalities) of all US service branches.

I honor you as well, Chief!
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Old 01-01-2014, 09:30 AM
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Great story thanks for sharing it!
That would have to be a prize to my collection.

Happy New Year............
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Old 01-01-2014, 09:45 AM
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Outstanding post, gun, and story!
That must have been quite a conversation with his wife. I'm sure it must have stirred up many emotions for both of you.

You should go into the private detective field
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Old 01-04-2014, 01:58 AM
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2K7:

Thank you for your superb detective work in recreating the context in which a historical artifact, a Navy Victory Model, served one of the Greatest Generation as he did his duty for us. I hope and trust that Mr. Morgan's widow appreciated your efforts to perpetuate a fuller account of her late husband's World War II service in naval aviation.

And thanks to the other contributors to this thread who explained, in words and photo, what his duties as an AMM3 were in World War II.

I learned a bunch!
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Old 04-02-2016, 01:21 AM
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I hope no one minds me reviving this thread. It is such a great and interesting thread I figure others would appreciate reading it. I don't know how I missed it the first go around.

Last edited by LOBO; 04-02-2016 at 01:22 AM.
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Old 04-02-2016, 08:45 AM
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In the U.S. Navy, a Machinist's Mate general rating essentially means a mechanic, someone who maintains and repairs engines or equipment, in this case associated with aircraft. Many think it means being a machinist, i.e., someone who runs machine tools such as a lathe or milling machine. But the Navy calls those guys Machinery Repairmen. Go figure.
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Old 04-02-2016, 08:46 AM
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Posts like this are the reason why I keep coming back!
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Old 04-02-2016, 10:40 AM
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Great story and a great gun. This is what the gun grabbers/haters don't understand, the way our interest in firearms is so much more than just the gun. The twists and turns through history, the ties to heros, family and friends. Though nowhere as colorful, I hope my grandsons will handle my service weapons from my career in law enforcement and my stories will come alive. Living on through my descendents fond memories. Thank you Bert Morgan and thanks to all the other Bert Morgans who kept America free and preserved our rights, especially our Second Amendment Rights.
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Old 04-02-2016, 10:51 AM
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I loved Paul Harvey's tales, but 2K7 you've got him beat.

And, LOBO, thanks for bringing this one back to the surface.

I'm proud to admit my eyes are still a bit blurry.
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Old 04-02-2016, 11:42 AM
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I just now stumbled across this thread. Talk about bringing a tear to the eye. I don't know what to say. Really. I don't.
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Old 04-02-2016, 11:58 AM
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This is a great story and a reminder that a gun with a DL#, SS#, or name engraved under the grips or a leather rig with a name can allow a story to be put to a firearm that makes it all the better! Thanks for posting this and putting in the effort to find out more.
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Old 04-02-2016, 12:28 PM
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It took plenty of guts to be in one of these planes during an attack run,with loads of anti aircraft fire headed your way.
If any of you would like to read more about the subject,allow me to suggest,"A Dawn Like Thunder".
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Old 04-04-2016, 06:09 PM
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Nice work,senior President Bush flew a Avenger.
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Old 04-04-2016, 09:53 PM
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Fascinating and moving story. The trouble you took to research it and document it so beautifully are greatly appreciated.

I wish I could have been an invisible observer when you spoke with his wife. It must have been very touching.
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Old 04-04-2016, 10:15 PM
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Excellent post. Thank you very much. Folks looking for such stories will find them in abundance at the National WWII Museum in New Orleans. In addition to the many artifacts, full scale planes and tanks, and interactive exhibits, they have screens set up where you can view videos of thousands of WWII vets telling their accounts of the war. Truly galvanizing.
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Old 04-05-2016, 11:47 AM
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Having recently purchased a '43 Victory (no Gov marking) and doing research online, I came across this thread.

Amazing...thanks for sharing.
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Old 04-05-2016, 12:30 PM
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Awesome! Literally had goose bumps reading the story. Thanks for sharing.
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Old 04-05-2016, 01:07 PM
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...very well done, Thank you.
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Old 04-05-2016, 01:29 PM
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Somehow I missed this thread when it was originally posted. A very good read! Matching a specific firearm with its service user is a tough task and very rarely done. Good show.

John
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Old 04-05-2016, 03:08 PM
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Thanks to all who contributed,,, A magnificent tale.
God Bless AMM3 Morgan
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Old 04-05-2016, 04:16 PM
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This is quite possibly one of the coolest forum posts I have read in a long time.

Treasure that revolver as its previous owner did.
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Old 07-12-2017, 01:40 PM
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As a follow-up to my original post here from some time ago, here is just another excellent example of the tough job the Assistant Machinist Mates performed and sometime giving it all for their Country!

Loyce Edward Deen, an Aviation Machinist Mate 2nd Class, USNR, was a gunner on a TBM Avenger.
On November 5, 1944, Deen's squadron participated in a raid on Manila where his plane was hit multiple times by anti-aircraft fire while attacking a Japanese cruiser. Deen was killed. The Avenger's pilot, Lt.; Robert Cosgrove, managed to return to his carrier, the USS Essex. Both Deen and the plane had been shot up so badly that it was decided to leave him in the plane.

It is the only time in U.S. Navy history (and probably U.S. military history) that an aviator was buried at sea in his aircraft after being killed in action.
Go to this website to view the burial:

<http://loyceedeen.webstarts.com/uploads/GoingHome.mp4
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