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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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  #1  
Old 01-30-2014, 10:13 PM
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Default .22/32 2" Club Gun w/Humpback Hammer

I bought this one about 10 years ago from a friend who had a gunshop in Western Mass. It is one of my favorite Club Guns, but, they all are. It letters as being shipped with a six inch barrel. There is no mention of the stocks.
Quoted directly from the factory letter.
"Company records indicate that your handgun with serial number 0345 was shipped from our factory on May 29, 1928 and delivered to Dana Bull, Springfield MA. The Bull's were part of the Wesson family. Sarah Wesson, D. B. Wesson's daughter married Dr. Bull of Worcester MA. They were divorced and she lived with her father in Springfield. One of the Dr. Bull's family also married Florence Wesson and worked at S&W. But I have no records as to Dana Bull in my notes on the family." The serial number 0345 appears on the frame, cylinder, extractor and the barrel. The serial stamp on the barrel obviously is from a later stamp. There is a rework diamond stamp on the frame and the barrel. This gun has a humpback hammer.
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.22/32 2" Club Gun w/Humpback Hammer-2232withhumpbackhammer017-jpg   .22/32 2" Club Gun w/Humpback Hammer-2232withhumpbackhammer012-jpg   .22/32 2" Club Gun w/Humpback Hammer-2232withhumpbackhammer016-jpg   .22/32 2" Club Gun w/Humpback Hammer-2232withhumpbackhammer018-jpg  
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Old 01-30-2014, 10:19 PM
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I must be shopping at he wrong gunshops in western Ma. That is an amazing specimen
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Old 01-30-2014, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Welder1 View Post
I must be shopping at he wrong gunshops in western Ma. That is an amazing specimen
Remember THE GUN BARREL ?
Cliff was a tough nut to crack. We used to argue so loudly, his wife would come downstairs and tell us if we didn't quite down, I would be sent home and Cliff had to go upstairs and go to bed. When he passed away, I sold the entire store for her.
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Old 01-30-2014, 10:36 PM
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That is the first snubby I have ever seen with a Humpback Hammer,Sweet! Too bad someone took a file to it,I have a similar Humpback hammer that I am having repaired and re checkered.
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Old 01-30-2014, 10:38 PM
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Sir, I don't recall the Gun Barrel. Unfortunaty Must have been a bit before my time. Good shops in this area are becoming fewer. Interesting that the letter went into that much detail. Not only is it a rarely found gun but the story behind it makes is all the better.
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Old 01-30-2014, 10:50 PM
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I'm leaving it alone. Let the next owner have fun with it. This is exactly as I got it.
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Old 01-30-2014, 10:55 PM
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Don,
How about closeups of the hammer? Did they build it by hand? I've never heard of an HBH for an I frame.
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Old 01-30-2014, 11:01 PM
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I'm leaving it alone. Let the next owner have fun with it. This is exactly as I got it.
I would be glad to have fun with it
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Old 01-31-2014, 12:49 AM
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Don,
How about closeups of the hammer? Did they build it by hand? I've never heard of an HBH for an I frame.
Lee
If Dana Bull was part of the extended Wesson family, they pretty much had free rein of the shop.
You looked at this revolver at the annual in Sturbridge.
I'll take close ups tomorrow after work.
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Old 01-31-2014, 05:02 AM
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Don,

This little creampuff is an amazing anomaly.

Besides the HBH, unheard of (at least by me) on an I frame, I also see a an optional .400 grooved target trigger not offered until the later Model of 1953 I frame production period.

The serial # on the forestrap indicates it was originally equipped with one of the two standard production extension wood stocks; RP or target.

Also the gold medallions in the MOP grips appear to be the flush, flat style from the very short period, a month or so:

2/11/1929 - Gold plate over brass recessed medallions ordered medallions reinstated in all stocks.
Then ordered on 3/18/29 changed to flush mounted, flat, un-curved gold plated,
before a new order in April 1929 changing them again to flush mounted flat silver.

The frame does not have the post 1922 "Made In USA" stamp yet it shipped in '29.

The 2" ribbed barrel of post 1953 style is not a production barrel with that shape ramp sight blade.
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Old 01-31-2014, 10:07 AM
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My first thought after I had studied it for sometime was maybe this is the first 2"Kit Gun.
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Old 01-31-2014, 11:26 AM
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Hondo44's post got me looking closely @ the barrel & front sight.
It looks to me like a '50's 2-inch barrel with the shark-fin sight milled/filed down to match the pre-war rear sight.
And what's going on with that ejector rod ?
Was the original long one ADAPTED to the short barrel?
That seems like a lot of work compared to simply replacing with a short-barrel rod.

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Old 01-31-2014, 03:10 PM
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I have to say, this kind of gun is exactly why I am so in love with old S&Ws. You never quite know what might be out there. This kind of little gun of mystery is 100% the kind of gun I would ultimately love my entire collection to consist of.
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Old 01-31-2014, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MNruss View Post
Hondo44's post got me looking closely @ the barrel & front sight.
It looks to me like a '50's 2-inch barrel with the shark-fin sight milled/filed down to match the pre-war rear sight.
And what's going on with that ejector rod ?
Was the original long one ADAPTED to the short barrel?
That seems like a lot of work compared to simply replacing with a short-barrel rod.

regards
Russ
Russ,

Good call on the front sight, that's got to be the reason. After lowering the sight blade, I would have changed the angle on the ramp to match the factory profile and re-serrated it.

The modified ejector rod I can partly understand. Pre war rods have right hand thread and almost all post war I frame rods were switched to left hand thread immediately after the war. The cylinder appears to have recessed chambers and therefore was updated. Non-recessed cyls weren't used until the introduction of the 4" Kit Gun c. 1935. So the replacement recessed cyl & star must be a pre war w/right hand thread.

Although, there were pre war 2" I frame barrels with short rods as used on the 38/32 Terrier beginning in 1936 with the skinny knurled tip in place of the knob. Still available at the time of the barrel change with RH threads and also now on Gunpartscorp.
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Old 01-31-2014, 08:32 PM
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Here are a few more pictures. Hopefully the close up of the hammer is good enough to see. I remember when Roy looked at it, he thought the hammer was in two pieces.
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Old 01-31-2014, 08:38 PM
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Nice gun Don. Wow, so many "what-if's" and possibilities on how all that came together. But being a club gun with so many connections to the Wesson clan I guess anything is possible. The frame size/humpback thingy sure throws everything we thought we know about HBH's "out the window".
I guess in all my admiration of you for all of the non-gun related stuff you have I have somehow overlooked the neat guns you have.
By the way I now own that real nice K22/40 you once had (with the SWHF documentation).
Keep all the pics of your goodies comming. It's eye candy to the rest of us.

Roger
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Old 01-31-2014, 11:47 PM
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Don, By now I assume you have researched Dana Bull and know where he fits into the story, right? As is sometimes the case, Roy's letters raise more questions than they answer. Tell us all about Dana. Where was he born, when did he die, what did he do the was notable, etc. ( That's a lotta Bull!) Ed.
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Old 02-01-2014, 12:46 AM
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Ed
As always your messages and insights inspire me. I will now start my research on Dana Bull.
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Old 02-01-2014, 01:08 AM
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Default Found Dana Bull

Ed I found Dana Bull, a quick google search for Dana Bull came up with the following picture. Sorry to say, I don't care for German Beer, and he looks alot younger then I thought.
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Old 02-01-2014, 02:38 AM
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Don, Don't you remember? The more beer you drink, the younger they look, especially at closing time! Ed.
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Old 02-01-2014, 10:36 AM
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Is that saying from "THE BOOK OF ED"?
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Old 02-01-2014, 12:56 PM
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Question

Hi Don don't know if this will help you.

Seemed to find a Dana Bull of hampden ma.

Records Available For Dana Bull in MA
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Old 10-05-2020, 08:21 PM
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To my mind there are some truly legendary posts in this forum, posts which have inspired me to search out the (to my mind) the neatest of all S&Ws ever built. I have yet to own a club gun of my own, but thinking about this magnificent little gun inspires me to never stop the search (even if I can't buy one because I went and got married).

I feel like this is one of those posts that could use a bit of a bump, I don't know that this ever got the attention that I believe it deserved in the first place, and I suspect that there are some new folks on the forum who would like to read about Don's amazing gun.
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Old 10-06-2020, 02:55 PM
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22/32 revolvers do not attract near the attention most of the other hand ejectors do. I wanted one for many years, but the prices usually held me back until I got the chance to purchase the one embellished by A O Niedner & previously owned by Michael Petrov, the author. It drew very light response on here & 2 other forums compared to almost any other gun on the same forums. Don's club gun is a real jewel [like a lot of his other ones].
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Old 10-06-2020, 07:26 PM
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Thanks to forum members for the kind words. I'll try to post better pictures of the humpback hammer and the replaced barrel on Dana Bulls Club Gun. As you can see the serial number on the barrel shows it is a later replacement.
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Old 10-06-2020, 11:26 PM
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WOW!!!!
Two whole pickshers of that UNIQUE hammer that nobody has ever seen!
How much would ya charge for 3 or 4 more?
It'd be nice to see the serrations a little better. I bet it was made like that.
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Old 10-07-2020, 12:16 AM
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I am saddened to report my penchant for not paying attention continues unabated. I hate to admit it, but it was not until Sixgun's post, (#23) that I realized this thread was 6 years old----but it's still a neat little gun.

Ralph Tremaine
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Old 10-07-2020, 02:56 PM
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Lee I hope these are what you wanted.
Don
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Old 10-08-2020, 11:34 AM
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Thanks, Don. That hammer is cool. Have you or anyone else ever seen another HBH on an I frame? I wonder how they made it? Surely they did not make a forging die for one hammer!
Made from scratch by milling/grinding flat stock? Welding a K frame spur onto an I frame hammer? Just making a spur and welding onto the hammer?

Anybody got any ideas?
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Old 10-08-2020, 10:21 PM
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Lee,

No, I've not seen any other I frame HBHs.

I'm in the "welded" camp. Either early factory work or after market. When I compare the overall shape of the original prewar hammer with its HBH shape, it appears fairly easy to fill in the top gap of the original hammer and work down to the HBH shape. I suspect the grooves instead of checkering on the spur might indicate that it was not factory work.

I don't think it was part of the factory rework ( Don posted had it rework stamps) likely done post 1953 for the availability of the 2" barrel, and .400" factory target trigger.

If I'm seeing it correctly, the barrel # is 10745 (although upside down) with diamond from ~ March 1955.
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Last edited by Hondo44; 10-08-2020 at 10:30 PM.
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Old 10-09-2020, 01:11 AM
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Been off for a while - miss the group. I picked this one up a few years ago at Tulsa. Shoot it regularly. Super accurate..

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Old 10-09-2020, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Hondo44 View Post
Lee,



If I'm seeing it correctly, the barrel # is 10745 (although upside down) with diamond from ~ March 1955.
Jim
The stamps on the underside of the barrel are a diamond and the serial number 0345.
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Old 10-09-2020, 09:16 AM
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Jim
The stamps on the underside of the barrel are a diamond and the serial number 0345.
Thanks Don.
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Old 10-09-2020, 10:40 AM
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We must all remember several Smith and Wessonisms,

1) S&W made guns by hand. Extremely talented craftsmen with a boatload of machinery and capable of making or producing ANYTHING!!! This includes metal or wood.

2) If you were a family member, a relative, a good friend of the family or someone that could help the S&W company like a world class shooter or magazine writer, S&W would probably do ANYTHING for you.

3) When it comes to S&W's, "we just don't know what we don't know".

4) Much of what S&W did outside of the norm is not necessarily recorded in the factory records or those records may be lost to time.

For me as a student of the .22/32 HFT's or Bekeart model as they are sometimes called, I would love to see the factory correspondence between them and Philip Bekeart regarding the development of this "new" revolver.

The standing story is that Bekeart approached S&W with this idea and the only way that they would spend the money to retool to proceed was if Bekeart would place an order for 1,000 units. As we now know, Bekeart never received all of the first 1,050 guns produced and within 9 days of his first shipment on 6-7-1911, other S&W dealers were receiving shipments as well.

As it turned out, Bekeart only received 294 from the first run of 1,050 guns produced or basically around 28%.

Since Bekeart was located in San Francisco, I have to believe that he wasn't traveling back and forth to the factory so there should be letters or telegrams discussing this process. Boy, would I love to get my hands on those!!!
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Old 10-10-2020, 06:31 PM
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New to this forum but while enjoying reading this post I am confused about a 2" kit gun I have. It is a 5-screw model with a 4 digit serial number (42xx). It is said the first 2" kit gun was made in 1953. I believe, from what I have read, that my kit gun is older than 1953.
I would appreciate comments from more learned aficionados.
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Old 10-10-2020, 06:53 PM
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Are you sure that it is a kit gun? Typically they were four inch. What is the serial number?
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Old 10-10-2020, 11:27 PM
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Serial number is 42xx. Overall length of cylinder is shorter than m34. Like I said, I am a novice.
Serial number matches on barrel, cylinder and frame.
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Old 10-11-2020, 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Winkus View Post
New to this forum but while enjoying reading this post I am confused about a 2" kit gun I have. It is a 5-screw model with a 4 digit serial number (42xx). It is said the first 2" kit gun was made in 1953. I believe, from what I have read, that my kit gun is older than 1953.
I would appreciate comments from more learned aficionados.
Winkus,

You're correct, the Model of 1953 was the first 2" Kit Gun. But there were no 5 screw Kit guns. They went from 6 screws to 4 screws; got the coil main spring, lost the 6th screw (spring tension screw), and the front trigger guard screw at the same time when it became the Model of 1953. #42XX is a 1953 model if that's the # from the butt, bottom of the grip frame and not the yoke.

It likely shipped in the 3rd quarter of 1954.

Where are the 5 screws you mention? There should only be 4 screws and all in the side plate if it's a Model of 1953.
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Old 10-11-2020, 12:08 AM
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Quote:
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Serial number is 42xx. Overall length of cylinder is shorter than m34. Like I said, I am a novice.
Serial number matches on barrel, cylinder and frame.
The M34 cyl is the same as the Model of 1953 because they are both I frames. The cyl became an 1/8" longer when it was built on the J frame as the Model 34-1 beginning the end of 1960.
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Old 10-11-2020, 11:24 AM
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HONDO44....you are correct. My kit gun does not have the screw in front of the trigger guard. I am convinced my kit gun is a model of 1953, made in 1953. I was confusing this revolver with an old 5-screw pre-15.
Many thanks. Now I know for sure.
Love this forum.
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Old 10-11-2020, 02:16 PM
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The 1st Model of 1953 was #101.

101 shipped early 1954
145 3/54
334 3/54
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