In May of this year I started this thread. I was asking for advice. Today, I looked at it again and bought it. I am absolutely sure I bought it too early, but have been looking for a Triple Lock for some time and this is the only one I have seen in person in several years. Photos to be posted in a new post below.


"Been looking for a decent condition triple lock for a while now with no real luck. I know enough about 1930's and newer S&W's to be dangerous, but I am out of my element with the older revolvers. I have read as much about them as I could find on line, but still not confident enough to assign a value to one "on the fly." Thus, the reason for this post. I apologize in advance for not taking photos, but I will try to describe it as best I can.

Today I found one at the local gun show that had been converted to 45 Colt from the original .455. The dealer said it was a commercial gun made for private sale. I would rate it at about 90% (but again, I am not good at % rating). The gun still has its original finish. It has some blue loss with some small blemishes but no pitting. It locks up tight. The inside of the barrel looks good. The grips are period correct, but I can find no number on them. The serial number of the gun is in the 5642. All serial numbers are consistent, save for the cylinder face, which was removed in the 45 conversion. The barrel has the patent number information on the top. There is no caliber designation on the barrel. There are three, if I remember correctly, British proof marks on the left side of the gun. There are proof marks on the recesses of the cylinder. There are no military proof marks on the gun. It has the swivel intact. The serial number on the butt of the gun is off set to compensate for the swivel so it appears the swivel is factory. It has a "Wonder Sight" affixed, but it does not detract from the gun. There are no markings on the frame, under the grips, to indicate the gun has ever been back to S&W, so it is not known if S&W did the caliber conversion or it was done by someone else. The finish appears to be original.

I am interested in any information I could get on the gun and a possible value. I realize I have already bought it, but would like to know just how "early" I bought it.

Thanks in advance,

Bill

For a conversion in 90% condition, I think I may have passed also. I don't own a triple lock and would like to have one, but I think that price was too high.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

The given serial (56xx) doesn't fall on the list of .44 HE TL's that were converted to .455 before the 1st contract TL's were made.
The total lack of British property marks would concern me on any contract guns. The three marks you describe as being on the barrel sound like standard British Commercial proofs and will also be found on contract guns if they were ever sold through a commercial dealer. In that case there should also be proofs on the cylinder. (Usually on the sides of the chambers, not the rear of the cylinder) As for officers having to buy their own sidearm, this is correct but the bought them from the military stores and they were from the contract guns, not commercial supply. There should be a broad arrow property mark and an opposing broad arrow release from stores mark somewhere on the gun, plus acceptance marks usually on the left rear of the frame just above the grip panel.

The whole thing seems just a little dicey to me and you probably did well walking away from it at that price.

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Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

I think the price was too high also. If it was not modified the asking price would seem more reasonable. It can be exceedingly difficult to see the penciled #s on old stocks. I think you are not crazy. Here are some pics that may help you if find another brit gun. These pics of Brit TL 9143

Opposing broad arrows.


Military acceptance.


Commercial BNP proof. It is better to me if this not present.

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Dennis

As I said in my edited first post, I purchased the the gun today. Below are the initial photos I took. Usually photos make the gun look better, but in this case they do not. The finish is much better in person than the photos depict. There are handling marks, scratches, etc., but no rust or pitting. The finish is bright and appears to be original. The case coloring on the hammer and trigger are very strong and actually look new. The gun locks up tight.

It has been converted to .45 Colt by shaving the rear of the cylinder. The conversion looks professionally done.

Based on what I have read I think the gun is one of the weapons built for the British during WWI, but only has commercial proof marks, no government/military markings are found. The serial number is higher than what I have found for those built for the British Government, but not by much.

Please educate me on the gun. Thanks in advance.

Bill

Very Nice!! To me, no obvious signs of a refinish( hard to tell by photos)....but... back of cylinder looks blued and with conversion it would have to be. Cold blue?

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PTLAPTA!

The photos do not show the rear of the cylinder's color well. It was left "in the white," but has darkened with age. It does not appear to have been refinished or cold blued, just aged.

That's very nice. I don't know what you paid but think you did good by grabbing that one while you could if you want one to shoot. Except for the obvious it looks all original. It's a “.455 Mk II HE 1st Model”.

It doesn't fit into either of the 1st (as does TL 9143 above) or the 2nd categories of 455 TLs but seems to fit into this last category:
“As the Brit contracts were finishing up in [April] 1916, S&W found enough [44 HE TL frames and 455] parts to build 691 .455 HE 1st Model Triple Locks. These guns will be numbered in the 44 serial number series [could be the 1st or 2nd Model 44 serial numbers; H of S&W, pg. 203]. I have no idea why they were not just numbered in the .455 series. Perhaps it was .455 barrels and cylinders that the factory found, and they simply turned again to existing 44 HE 1st Model frames to use them up. They were sold commercially.” Lee Jarrett

It's clearly not a factory conversion. But the frame lug was properly replaced, it appears, because it fits the shorter cyl. The factory would usually replace the cylinder and always restamp with the s/n. A date would also appear on the grip frame with a star on the butt.

Since it's converted to common ammunition anyway, I hope you plan to shoot and enjoy it 'cause that sure can't hurt it. Buy Cowboy loads in 45 Colt or the shorter 45 Schofield; they are mild and accurate. Made by Ten X, Magtech, Black Hills Ammo, Ultramax and Winchester.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Thanks Hondo 44, that information helps greatly. I am pretty sure that I "bought it too early," but its only the third one I have ever seen for sale and is in the best "original" condition (save the British marks and caliber conversion) of those I have seen.

I will continue to look for a .44, but I have never seen one locally for sale and I don't want to buy one without holding it in my hand first.

While not perfect, it looks pretty good in person to be 98 years old. I hope I look that good at 98.

Thanks,

Bill

Looks like a nice piece to me,Good find.I would ditch the add on rear sight,Just not my style.

Thanks,

I will loose the "Wondersite" when I find a replacement screw as the previous owner lost it.

I agree that the Wonder sight is not very attractive, but mine does seem to work pretty well.

Love the short barrel, I assume it was cut down?

Apologies for thread drift, but larry, what stocks are those? I picked up a set that are dead ringers, well made, but not sure of origin. Are there washers on the medallions? Thanks, jim

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Halfway and one more step

Barrel letters as 4", sight is milled in one piece, stocks are gold medallion not marked inside, no washers. PM for further if more info desired on apparently unique markings. Larry

For comparison here's my .45 Colt conversion from .455 I bought about a year ago for
$1100 with ivory grips on it. I had the original grips that I put on it. It has a few
markings on it but not the full Brit military.

1929 thru WW II N frame "Service" stocks with flat silver medallions.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Here is the thing with no offence to the previous post and comments many of them I have come to value their knowledge and experience dealing with these old Smiths. The thing is at the end of the day the only thing that matters is do you like the gun you bought my opinion or anybody elses doesn't matter the amount you spent doesn't matter as long as you aren't causing stress on the family budget and as long as you don't do it behind your spouses back assuming you are married thats it nothing else matters enjoy your gun.

Jim, the thing that has me going about these (OPs and mine both) is the beautiful grain in the wood, and the high quality of the wood.
Now, the medallions look like gold. I thought silver plated bronze, german silver, but seem to be Au.
Thanks for any info. I'll shut up now.
Jim

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Halfway and one more step

OldTexMex,

Never shut up, you're comments and observations are welcomed. Yes, I agree, the pre war stock walnut is beautiful and can even be seen thru the checkering. It was actually Circassian Walnut until Pre WW I. Obviously still a premium grade after that.

I interpreted the medallions in the photo as silver and flush mounted (I didn't realize Larry confirmed them in gold) so I was wrong. When they are recessed and gold in color, they are genuine Au plated over brass and are from ~1910 to ~ 1920, or any pre war period if used in premium stocks such as those of Ivory or MOP.
Gold plate over brass reinstated in wood stocks 2/11/1929, changed 3/18/29 to flush mounted gold plated, April 1929 changed to flush, chrome plated over brass.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Cool! I'm rich!!

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Halfway and one more step