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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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  #101  
Old 10-21-2016, 07:36 PM
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JSR, how about posts 89 and 90? Missed those. Thanks.


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  #102  
Old 10-21-2016, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Charlie View Post
Here's mine.
serial number 229900 on cylinder, barrel and grip frame.
wooden grips no serial number
gold medallions
no numbers on bottom of grips
cylinder not recessed
square blade rear sight
front sight high flat on top, no bead
large knob two step recess in barrel
no box
barrel marked 22 long rifle CTG
not lettered
S&W logo on right side
well worn blue finish.
Any comments appreciated.
regards Charlie
That's an early # to have the Patridge sight; a late shipper. Most HFTs in that range shipped in the teens, but the Patridge sight wasn't introduced until Aug.29, 1923. So one would think yours shipped after that.

But the stocks have gold medallions which ended in ~1920. Do the stocks have one screw or two?

This one needs a letter.

Are you sure there's no penciled # on the back of the right grip?
Use good light?

Sometimes a photo is needed to “see” the penciled #.
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  #103  
Old 10-21-2016, 09:25 PM
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I can't see the number on your photo is there anyway you could draw a line around or under it to clarify for me? Are the numbers just above the cut? . However after reading previous messages I am almost convinced I can
see three penciled numbers on my grip. I know it needs a letter, I have two registered models I've put off lettering for years as well as a pre model 27, a triple lock in 45 Colt with an extra 45 acp cylinder... etc, etc.
Regards Jim from Dr Charlie
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  #104  
Old 10-21-2016, 09:28 PM
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Jim, My gold medallion stocks have two screws. They also had a compass inletted into the bottom which was broken and smashed when I traded into it. I removed compass and filled the hole with wood trying match color. That may be the reason no numbers on bottom??
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  #105  
Old 10-21-2016, 10:17 PM
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Yep, small logo left side. Sorry missed it on my first post description.
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  #106  
Old 10-22-2016, 02:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Charlie View Post
I can't see the number on your photo is there anyway you could draw a line around or under it to clarify for me? Are the numbers just above the cut? . However after reading previous messages I am almost convinced I can
see three penciled numbers on my grip. I know it needs a letter, I have two registered models I've put off lettering for years as well as a pre model 27, a triple lock in 45 Colt with an extra 45 acp cylinder... etc, etc.
Regards Jim from Dr Charlie
It's horizontal in the lower right of the inletted portion, begins with a 5 and ends with a 9.
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  #107  
Old 10-22-2016, 02:50 AM
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Jim, My gold medallion stocks have two screws. They also had a compass inletted into the bottom which was broken and smashed when I traded into it. I removed compass and filled the hole with wood trying match color. That may be the reason no numbers on bottom??
You have the extended target stocks, the norm for most of the HFT production which also dates it to pre 1920. But they may be replacements if not numbered to the gun.

Your serial is too high to likely have one of the 3000 assembly numbers. They were stamped on the bottom of the left grip only.
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  #108  
Old 10-29-2016, 09:46 AM
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James here is a shooter I just bought this week. Serial number 220403 shipped April of 1915. for $340 I couldn't leave it at the LGS. It came with the flap holster which looks Period correct.











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  #109  
Old 10-29-2016, 01:18 PM
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One more for your database:
SN 501426
Matching numbers on Frame, Barrel, Cylinder, and Right Stock (pencil)
Wooden, non-medallion stocks
Small S&W logo on left side
Non-recessed cylinder
Patridge front sight
Square blade rear sight
No box
Not lettered
Barrel marked 22 Long Rifle CTG
A couple of quick snapshots attached.
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  #110  
Old 01-19-2017, 11:01 PM
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One more for your database:
SN 368449
Matching numbers on Frame, Barrel, Cylinder, yoke and star.
Wooden, non-medallion stocks
Small S&W logo on left side
Non-recessed cylinder
Round thin blade front sight with gold bead.
V notch blade rear sight
Not lettered
Barrel marked 22 Long Rifle CTG
No "Made in USA"

Purchased this today from a gun shop. Has been in the same family since new the consignee said she remembers shooting it as a little girl and she has had it in the dresser most of her life. It is in good shape except for barrel wear about 40% left. I think I overpaid at $700, Got caught with a spur of the moment deal and didn't do my home work. I figure about 1921-1922. Any more info will be appreciated.


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  #111  
Old 01-20-2017, 03:35 AM
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You did ok, it's a 22/32 Heavy Frame Target from 1920 to 1923. It has the early sights that changed in ~ 1924.

Check backside of right grip for matching serial number in pencil.
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  #112  
Old 01-21-2017, 03:05 PM
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Default 22/32 Survey

Jim, Here is some info on my two 22/32HFT.
#1. Sn.360309
#matching except grips #531070
mushroom ejector knob, w/ two step barrel cut
non recessed ejector
Paine front sight, "U" notch rear sight

#2. Sn. 360726 Now Engraved
# matching except grips #525976
barrel ejector knob w/ one step barrel cut
recessed ejector
patridge front sight, square notch rear sight
front sight now has gold bead added

I do not have shipping dates on either gun, can't seem to
find an opening to post them. Also no factory letters.

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  #113  
Old 04-07-2017, 07:51 AM
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Default .22/32 HFT's or Bekeart models

I am still looking for additions to my database. If you own a .22/32 HFT or kit gun, please post the details here or supply photos of both sides of the gun. I am also interested in the last patent date and whether it has recessed chambers.

I have close to 2,000 entries and looking for more.

If anyone owns guns with butt stock numbers 1133, or 1693, I am searching for details on those two guns. I know that one is 163,3XX and the other is 163,6XX however without the complete serial number I can not get the ship date.

Thanks for your help with my homework assignment.
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  #114  
Old 04-07-2017, 12:20 PM
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Default 22/32 HFT

James,
I posted about this little HFT I bought a few weeks ago in another thread but thought I should add this to yours.
SN 441586. August 1926 ship date
I does have the "U" rear sight as it is numbered to the gun. All Matching numbers, including the stocks, except the front sight blade which is a home made brass piece. The front sight should have been a Paine Bead. Thought I might find one last weekend at the Tulsa gun show but I didn't.
I probably will post an ad in the wanted section for that.
George
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  #115  
Old 04-10-2017, 09:28 PM
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Thanks everyone for the additions. I got busy and hadn't been back for a while. I will try to update some of your posts and have a few questions. Rather than add separate posts, I will address all here.

thadheth- 501426 can't quite make it out. Does it have the "Made in USA stamp on the right side? It probably shipped in late 1929 or early 1930.

s3dcor- 368449 probably shipped in March, April or May of 1923

Model52guy- 441586 is late for the U notch rear and Paine front sight. Everything around yours has a square notch rear with a Patridge front. But with S&W you never know. If a customer wanted the Paine and they had it in stock they would oblige. If you want a Paine front sight reach out to Dumpster Don (club gun fan) as he has some and I think he has the pins too. Mic the base as he has many length pins.

hibbs- 360,309 and 360,726 should have shipped in early 1922.
But I also have 360,XXX guns shipping out in late 1921 and early 1923 so who knows.

huthike- 225072 probably shipped in late 1915 or early 1916.

0007- 517383 probably shipped between June and September of 1930.

Hopefully I got everyone buy since I'm old, please feel free to ask any questions that I failed to answer.
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  #116  
Old 04-10-2017, 09:54 PM
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Just to address a few things about these neat little guns.

There are dates when certain changes were ordered like Paine to Patridge front sights or the 2 screw extension stocks changed to the regulation police style and then back again to the two screw.

You must remember that S&W was in the business to make money and many of these items were available before, during and after S&W might have decided to institute a change.

If a customer wanted a Patridge front sight during the "Paine era" and was willing to pay any up charge if any, S&W would oblige. The 2 screw extension stocks were still available when they decided to offer the gun with the regulation police style. Again, if someone wanted the larger stocks, S&W would oblige.

I personally own a Bekeart shipped gun that went out in June of 1911 that has a Patridge front sight. I also have several others that went to other S&W distributors that also have the Patridge style.

So be careful when looking at these guns and using change dates to justify the legitimacy of a particular gun. With S&W one never knows for sure.

As an additional note, my research has pretty much concluded that the stock imprint numbers found on the bottom of the left stock never went higher than 3,000. The last guns to show up in my database with numbers in the 2,500 range are among the 490 guns shipped to MW Robinson in 1914.

The first 1,000 are found on the Bekeart guns and those shipped to others in 1911 starting with 138,226 and ending with 139,275. The second 1,000 appear on those guns shipped in 1912 in the 165,XXX and up range and the final 1,000 appear to be largely the guns including the MW Robinson 490 shipped in 1914.

After the last Robinson gun, 208,416, the next block to appear starts with 220,110 and I have none recorded thereafter where a stock sequence number was noted. FWIW.
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  #117  
Old 04-10-2017, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSR III View Post
I am putting together a database of information about the Bekeart models and the subsequent .22/32 HFT's. I have close to 350 guns in the database so far and I am asking for your help to add any additional numbers to the list. I have obvious headings like serial number, stock sequence number, date shipped, destination, stock style, front sight, recessed chambers, condition and modifications/inclusions.

Things like bobbed hammers, knob style etc., are listed under the modifications.

If anyone has any that they would like to add to the list, please supply the details. Should you not want to post the information publicly, feel free to PM or email me and no names will be attached to any information.

If you own a .22/32 and just want to see if I have any information about your gun, please feel free to ask.

Many folks think that if their gun is numbered between 138,226 and 139,275 that it went to Bekeart, however, that is not correct. For example, 138,226 did not and neither did 139,274.

Thanks in advance for your help.
I have one I just bought off forum couple weeks ago. A low
quality refinish, shooter grade- so so lock up with a terrible bore.
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  #118  
Old 04-11-2017, 07:13 AM
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Drm50, I am a little confused. That same photo appears in post 108 above. Did you guys buy the gun together???
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  #119  
Old 04-11-2017, 03:03 PM
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James, 517386, 6" barrel, barrel type knob, non-recessed cylinder, target stocks with silver medallion, u-notch rear with rounded front sight with gold round dot on top, small emblem on left side and made in usa on right side. About 90% original bluing, excellent shooter. No letter requested. Gary
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  #120  
Old 04-11-2017, 03:55 PM
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thadheth- 501426 can't quite make it out. Does it have the "Made in USA stamp on the right side? It probably shipped in late 1929 or early 1930.
Yes, it is stamped "Made in USA" on the right side. Thank you for the shipping date information.
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  #121  
Old 04-11-2017, 05:39 PM
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Gary what is the last patent date on top of the barrel of 517386?

I do have 517387 listed in my database having shipped 8-4-1930 FWIW.
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  #122  
Old 04-12-2017, 08:25 PM
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Here is 240028 Finish is a little worn but locks up tight.
7 patent dates showing and last one is Sept 14 09

I assume this is bobbed hammer and not sure what kind of front site you would call this?

Hopefully this will add to your database

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]
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  #123  
Old 04-12-2017, 09:47 PM
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Your #240028 shipped in the mid teens. It has the Paine front sight with bead and U notch rear. But the stocks are from 1920 or later.

The hammer spur was broken or purposely modified. We see that uncommonly often on this model.

The serial # penciled on the back side of the right stock if readable, will not match.

Your stocks should have the recessed gold medallions as shown here from post #108 above:

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Old 04-13-2017, 08:28 PM
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James, the last patent date on 517386 is September 14, 08. Could be 09 to these old eyes!! Regards, Gary
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Old 04-14-2017, 09:10 AM
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Interesting sale at the Centurion auction 4/12. I don't know if it went to anyone on the forum. Very early gun serial number 138512, butt number 187. Did not ship to Bekeart. Barrel was shortened to 4". From the photos, it looks like it may have been shortened by removing a section of the barrel behind the front sight. If so, I would love to see the rifling!

Bob
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  #126  
Old 04-15-2017, 04:55 AM
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Since the auction is over you can post the link so we can see it.
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  #127  
Old 04-15-2017, 08:57 AM
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ColtCool - thanks for the info. The bobbed hammer is something seem often with these guns. In adding yours to my database, I show one a few entries earlier with serial number 238,575 that also has the bobbed hammer. Some feel that this modification was the result of the hammer spur catching the web of the hand when the hammer cocked during double action. Maybe??

993B- Gary the date is 09. Typically these guns are either marked 09 or 14 as the last patent date. The earliest one that I show with the 14 patent date is 458,294 however there are many with higher serial numbers that still have the 09 last patent date.

red9- Bob, 138512 while in the first 1,000 produced did not go to Bekeart. It shipped to Pacific Hardware and Steel on 6-26-1911 and in addition to the 4" barrel wears a King front sight according to my database.
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Old 04-15-2017, 10:52 AM
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Here is the link to the gun in post 125:

SMITH & WESSON .22/32 BEKEART ... Auctions Online | Proxibid

Jim,

Are you saying that the barrel is an original 4"? If so, I may have to shoot myself with a Bekeart for passing it up.

Bob
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Old 04-16-2017, 09:27 AM
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Are you saying that the barrel is an original 4"? If so, I may have to shoot myself with a Bekeart for passing it up.
No, what I was saying was that I already had an entry for this gun showing that it had a 4" barrel. If you look closely at the photos from the auction, I see a perfect line on both sides of the barrel just to the rear of the front sight. It appears to me that the barrel was cut there and the front section reattached.

All of these guns were originally shipped with a 6" barrel. It wasn't until the 30's after the K frame 22's came out that IMHO, S&W decided to use up these frames (that were dying on the shelf) and shorten the barrel to 4" and reissue it as the "kit" gun.

As I have said in other threads about the .22/32 HFT, it was born because S&W's only .22 offering at the time was the small M frame .22 referred to by collectors as the Ladysmith. Then in its later years it was chopped back to a smaller version of itself and issued as the Kit Gun.

I guess what goes around, come around.
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Old 04-26-2017, 04:31 PM
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James :
I have recently acquired .22/32 HFT Serial # 444378. Please add to your data base.
Thanks.
Leo
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Old 05-13-2017, 06:52 PM
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Still looking for additions for the .22/32 HFT database. If you own one of these guns, please email or PM me the details. I do not record owner information, just gun details. I record:

Serial number
Left stock imprint number (first 3,000 guns shipped) usually serial numbers under 220,XXX
Ship date
Destination
Type stocks
Front sight
Recessed chambers or not
Condition
Type extractor knob (Large, medium or small)
Size logo and location
USA stamp or not
Latest patent date
Modifications
Any box

I have almost 2,000 guns recorded and am always willing to share any information that I have with any member.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 05-23-2017, 03:43 PM
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I recently picked up this .22/32 HFT. Serial number 423933. Stocks number to the revolver. Non recessed cylinder. Made in USA stamp on right side. Small S&W logo on left side. last Pat. date is Dec 22. 14

Some holster wear.
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  #133  
Old 06-25-2017, 03:11 AM
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James, 517386, 6" barrel, barrel type knob, non-recessed cylinder, target stocks with silver medallion, u-notch rear with rounded front sight with gold round dot on top, small emblem on left side and made in usa on right side. About 90% original bluing, excellent shooter. No letter requested. Gary
Gary, according to my database your gun should have shipped somewhere between May and August of 1930.
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Old 06-25-2017, 03:12 AM
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Still looking for additions.
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Old 06-28-2017, 03:51 PM
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I just purchased 226161, 1915? Partridge front sight, non recessed cylinder. Walnut target grips with gold medallion. No number on the grip bottom. No Made in USA, small S&W logo on the right side. Don't have a letter for it, but I might get one. Well worn but tight and clean.
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Old 06-28-2017, 09:25 PM
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Close; 226160 - shipped on April 1 1916.

Does the rear sight blade have a U notch or square notch?
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Old 06-28-2017, 10:42 PM
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I believe it has the square notch. So 1916 most likely.
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Old 06-28-2017, 11:23 PM
Hondo44 Hondo44 is offline
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That’s in nice shape.

The Aug. 29, 1923 change order deleted the original standard Paine bead front sight w/U-Notch, and introduced the Patridge front and square notch rear blade as standard. But they could be ordered instead of the Paine/U notch at any time during production.

Looks like yours was special ordered. Your sq notch rear looks factory with the angled side cuts in the notch.
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Old 06-28-2017, 11:51 PM
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A long shot from calguns.. It was one of a long list of firearms from an estate. Described as a S&W Revolver 22LR model "ctg" PM for pictures.. When I got the pictures it was what I was thinking it might be. Bluing is well worn, perhaps 50%. It is tight, and the barrel is almost perfect, no pitting, sharp rifling etc. Kind of a blind squirrel buy. $600 which I thought was fair. I will get better pictures after the 10 day wait. I think for the first time I will send off for a letter.
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Old 07-04-2017, 03:24 PM
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I have been watching this thread for a long time and now I get to play along.

Ser # 384442
Reg Police type grips stamped ' Patent June 5, 1917 '
cannot find any pencil markings inside of grips
Paine bead front sight
U groove rear sight
Non recessed chambers
Finish is original with most of the wear being on the barrel
Large extractor knob with two cuts in the barrel
Small logo on left side below the thumb piece
Stamped " Made in USA' on the right side
Last Patent date on the barrel " Sept 14 08


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Old 07-10-2017, 09:43 AM
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tt66, all of the 384,XXX numbered guns and several of the 386,XXX guns in my database shipped in either September, October or November of 1923. Again, nothing is certain with S&W shipping dates but barring a fluke I would say it is a good bet that your gun shipped in one of those months.

I already had it listed in my database without shipping date or destination so most likely I got the information here on the forum from another member or from one of the online auction sights.

The last patent date is most likely Sept of 09 and not 08 as all I have seen are either 09 or 14.
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Old 08-01-2017, 10:43 PM
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Still looking for guns to add. Anyone own a .22/32 HFT that hasn't been added? I am especially interested in ones from the first 2500-3000 with a number on the bottom of the left stock.
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  #143  
Old 08-30-2017, 12:05 PM
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James
Another .22/32 to add to your list. The serial number is 0232. it is a Club Gun. The records show it was shipped with two other .22/32's, serial numbers are 0230 & 0231. They were signed out to Colonel Douglas B. Wesson on April 3, 1915. There is a barrel included with it, same serial number 0232, it is bulged. The finish is 98%. it has two factory return dates on it, they are 5.46 and 4.2.79.
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Old 08-30-2017, 04:07 PM
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Don,

Very interesting! May I ask if the 4 line address stamp had been added to the right frame side, possibly in the '79 return to the factory?

And wouldn't that bulged barrel make a nice #s matching 4" barrel!! Oh, sorry, my imagination ran amok for a moment.

Thanks,
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Old 08-30-2017, 07:17 PM
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Jim
No nothing on the frame, not even Made in USA.
I already have a two inch .22/32 Club Gun.
Don
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Old 08-30-2017, 07:25 PM
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Here is 399405 that I understand dates to 1925. I'm not real smart on these guns so I'll just post some photos. The stocks do match the gun as do all major parts.







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Old 08-31-2017, 01:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Club Gun Fan View Post
Jim
No nothing on the frame, not even Made in USA.
I already have a two inch .22/32 Club Gun.
Don
Wow, a pre war vintage 2".

I have a 3 3/8" that suffered a bulged barrel and a refinish. Makes a great shooter for the grandkids.
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Old 08-31-2017, 08:26 PM
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My recently acquired one. My first early Smith. I actually had no idea what I was buying but at $500 it had to come home. I just picked it up from Cabelas in Buda Texas after they shipped it from their Post Falls Idaho store where I found it. Serial number is 495708. All numbers match. I am just sorting photos since PB's "demise". Let me know what more you would like.



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Old 04-09-2018, 12:12 AM
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Thanks all for the entries. Please keep them coming. I now have over 2,000 entries in the database and many thanks to you all.

If posting information, I need:

Serial number, stock imprint number 1-3,000, shipping date, destination, type of stocks, front sight, recessed chambers or not, condition, size extractor knob, logo size and location and last patent date (usually 09 or 14), box, and any unusual features.

Anyone needing an approximate shipping date, let me know.
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  #150  
Old 05-06-2018, 07:53 AM
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At yesterday's gun show I looked at a 205xxx numbered gun with a Paine front sight and non matching barrel number. The rear sight is missing. I would like to make an offer on the gun today but I'm concerned about finding a replacement rear sight. Does anybody have one they would part with? The stocks have a number on the bottom that I can't remember. Any info would be appreciated.
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