I'm new to this site, though not to pistol collecting. This is the first S&W I've ever had to inquire about.I am looking to find out the Model # and approximate date of manufacture. This was used by a Police Department at one time, though they did not mark the pistol.

Serial # - S 8767XX
The yoke only has an assembly number. Barrel marked ".38 S&W Special CTG".

Welcome to the forum.

That's a beauty.

It only has a model name. You have a very early post war Model .38 Military & Police from about 1947. Sometimes referred to as a 'Pre Model 10'. Didn't get a model number assigned to it until June 1957 when it became the Model 10.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

It's a postwar M&P which likely shipped in early 1947. It's a bit early to be called a pre-Model 10, as it would still have the old long action and earlier hammer.

True, that's why I said "sometimes" referred to as the Pre M10 (by the less discerning). It's a true Post war Transistional Model M&P.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

That’s a nice old working .38. Ignoring the lack of a dictionary definition of “pre-model 10”, all the information above is correct. The main feature that makes it a transitional is its long action but three other pre-WWII soon to be discontinued or transitional features are of interest to collectors: its one line “Made In U.S.A.”, its enlarged ejector rod end, and patent dates atop its barrel.

Detroit’s surplus 5” nickeled model 10s were inexpensive during the mid-1990s. I wish I’d snagged one.

There are threads on Detroit’s old revolvers including this one: Detroit PD gun picture thread?!!!!.

As others have indicated this is a postwar .38 Military & Police revolver of a type that was made during the period 1946-1948. These exhibit a series of feature changes that reflect wartime and prewar parts types transitioning to newer parts types. The changes culminated in the complete shift to the high speed hammer in the early- to mid-months of 1948. The C prefix guns replaced the S prefix models, beginning with production in March, 1948, although both types shipped together for several months afterward. Serial numbers very close to yours were shipping in February, 1947.

I'm doing research on these revolvers at present. I'll send you a questionnaire via PM in a few minutes. I would appreciate your assistance.

Thanks.

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

Have you checked inside the right grip panel to see if the number stamped there matches the SN on the butt? The grips seem to be of the correct type for that period, but appear to have been varnished.

I quite agree!

Also, Reichpapers: Welcome to the Forum. This is a great place to hang out if you are interested in learning about S&W revolvers. We learn a lot from each other around here, regularly.

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

Am I the only one disturbed by the user name Reichpapers?

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No life story has happy end.

Not me. I figured he was a collector of German documentary memorabilia from the 1930-1945 period, or something like that. Lots of fascinating material to be discovered in such pursuits.

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

Welcome to the forum! That is quite a nice specimen! Do you ever shoot it? I had a 1905 4th change that shipped in 1919. My dad gave it to me. I gave it to my son. The oldies like to burn up ammo too! Bob

I barley glance at unfamiliar screen names so I didn’t even discern the “Reich”. Reading SP’s and JP@AK’s replies reminds me of a couple of Seattle rabbis that used to display Nazi metals and decorations at the WAC shows. One of the newspapers searching for something bad to write about gun shows wrote up their displays without realizing they were accusing rabbis of being anti-semantic. There was no getting the news paper to print a significant retraction so the rabbis quietly quit displaying for a time. It’s their families’ history more than mine so it seemed logical that they’d have an interest in preserving historical artifacts.

Now back to keeping Detroit’s tax payers safe with fine old M&Ps.

Now there is some real humor here!

I rather think you were being "anti-semantic" in this statement. Of course, what you meant was "anti-Semitic."
But it sure gave me a laugh!!!

Thanks for posting. And your story was ironic!

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

You nailed it on the head I used to have quite the collection at one time.

Thank you all for your responses. They were very helpful. I'm currently visiting with my Mother and Step Dad and he happened to have this from a relative who carried it as a police officer. I figured I'd help him acquire what information we could.

Good! Now you have something to tell him. These are great old revolvers. I enjoy shooting the several that I have.
Here's my favorite, a 5" barrel example that shipped from the factory in March, 1946:

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

The definition of 'pre-model' is only one piece of a larger theme that applies to all HE models from the SCSW, 3rd, and is #4 in the following five evolutionary categories:

1. Pre-war models up thru 1941
2. Wartime production models
3. Transitional models (post war) 1945-1950
4. Pre-models: "Incorporates the 1950 design improvements, but before model numbers were assigned. Many collectors will call these 'pre-models'."
5. Numbered models June 1957 and up

For I & J frames, it's similar except for:
3. Transitional models (post war) 1946-1953
4. Pre-models: Incorporates the 1953 design improvements....

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Papers, very nice 1905. My old 05 is 8757xx. My birth year is 1947.
Close enough to call it my birth year gun. Love the looks and workmanship
of these old Smiths. Hdhic

Only if yours has the same S prefix to the SN. Without a letter prefix, yours (8757xx) left the factory in late 1941. The S-series M&Ps were made only in 1946-48.

That's a beauty! Looking good for 66 years old!

My bad, Dewalt. I left off the prefix S.
Hdhic

What would you value this pistol at? He wants to give it away to the museum of the sheriff who ran the police Dept. it came from, though I feel they may not be interested as it didn't belong to the sheriff himself. I may make an offer, and I want to make sure it's a fair price.

I bought a 6" in a little better condition for $345 less than a year ago. I felt like I made a good deal at that price. Others here can say if a 4" bbl is more desirable.

First, the 4" barrel is more common than the 6". This statement reflects both my own observations and the rather extensive database I keep on the S prefix guns.

Prices on these are not very consistent at present. I've paid anywhere from $300 to $500 for them in recent months, in the higher graded condition levels. I would say, based on the photos, that this one could easily bring $400 and I might pay a little bit more for it if I needed it to fill a gap. However, I very recently paid only $315 for a 5" example in about the same condition.

Maybe this helps.

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

Welcome to the forums, Reichpapers! .38 M&Ps of that era are increasing in value, especially those in better condition. Unfortunately, this was the bread & butter gun for S&W and they aren't anywhere close to being scarce or rare. Technically, what you have is a WWII Victory model revolver that has the safety hammer block modification that was introduced late in the war. The commercial, post-war 4" guns sell for around $400+/- in my area. Pricing tends to be regional and may be more in your area.

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

With the holster and grip adapter, I could see $375, maybe a bit more. Almost unbelievable that 2 or so years ago, you could buy one like it in near-mint condition for that amount.

The Holster is actually a Colt Holster. They may have used Colts before the S&W's.

Is this Pistol c&r?

Yes sir, over 50 years old qualifies per ATF regs. However, state and local laws could be different, although they likely define a C&R the same.

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}-----Jim----->
~SWCA #2732~

I offered him $375 for the pistol and he agreed. He also gave me the police belt, cartridge holder loaded with original rounds...and a mint German P38 holster (he knew I was droolong overit).

I decided to remove the the varnish off of the grips. With little effort the gunk melted off and this is what I found underneath...I didn't have to do a thing once removed. Does this look correct now, or should I still pursue replacements?

Before:



After:

They look much better without the gloss.

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James Redfield
LM #497

I would not replace them. The holy grail of most collectors is an original gun, including the wood. Obviously replaced parts are worse than original parts that show wear consistent with the rest of the gun. An excellent condition set would look like replacement stocks and not make it shoot better. If target stocks or aftermarket stocks fit you better I'd use them but store the originals with the gun.

Thanks for your advice. I always prefer things to be correct on my handguns.

Welcome to the Forum. That's a super nice .38 S&W M&P with
lots of "character". Did you look to see if the right grip panel
has the matching serial number?

There are no serial number under the grips. Just a number 2 penciled on one and a number I can't read on the other.

I just wanted to post one last pic with the cleaning grips.

I think it's an improvement. There are oil finishes which might make it look a little better and add a little protection. There is a product called "Grumbacher Drying Oil" (if you have a Hobby Lobby store nearby, they will probably have it in a 4 ounce bottle) which is used by artist-type painters. It is of very low gloss and dries very quickly, and looks very good on grips. In fact, you can barely tell that the finish is there. A little goes a long way as it is very thin.