Yet another early Regulation Police .38

Absalom · #1 10-25-2014, 05:44 PM

Since a number of members have shown off their early Regulation Police .38 models lately, I thought I might add mine to the list. I recently acquired #4301. At $595, it was certainly not a bargain, but I'd been pricing the market for a while, and the combination of its pretty nice condition and low serial number made the deal attractive to me. I've sent for a letter; based on what I read in other threads, I assume it will have shipped in late 1917.
The faint nature of the REG... on the right side of the barrel had me worried about a refinish for a moment, but a close examination of the gun and the distinct wear patterns at the muzzle and the edges of the frame and cylinder preclude that possibility; probably an irregularity during the application of the roll stamping.

Targets Guy · #2 10-19-2017, 02:15 PM

I realize this is an old thread but I have a chance to purchase a .38 Police Regulation and in my research I came across your thread. When did your s/n 4301 ship?

Absalom · #3 10-19-2017, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targets Guy

I realize this is an old thread but I have a chance to purchase a .38 Police Regulation and in my research I came across your thread. When did your s/n 4301 ship?

Here is the letter

Targets Guy · #4 10-19-2017, 06:11 PM

I just picked up mine. S/N is 7336 so I am guessing 1918.

Absalom · #5 10-19-2017, 06:39 PM

I hope you letter yours. The 1917 batch, before war production got in the way, is well-represented. It is generally assumed, just on the basis of documented examples, to include about the first 5000 or so serials. Then there is a gap of several thousand; very few in the 6/7/8-thousands are documented, before shipments pick up again in later 1919/20, but with usually higher serials, 9/10-thousands. You may have come across some of the older threads discussing this. Yours falls right into the middle of this “dark era”.

PS: I notice it already has the 1920s stocks, but I don’t see anything penciled on them.

Targets Guy · #6 10-19-2017, 06:43 PM

I did indeed. I saw where 5693 shipped in 3/18 and 6592 shipped in 4/18. Also that 93xx shipped sometime in 1919 and a very nice post on S/N 10325 that shipped in 11/1919.

It is on "my guns to letter" list.

Targets Guy · #7 10-19-2017, 11:14 PM

Someone must have used it as a hammer at some point in time.

Targets Guy · #8 10-19-2017, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Absalom

I hope you letter yours. The 1917 batch, before war production got in the way, is well-represented. It is generally assumed, just on the basis of documented examples, to include about the first 5000 or so serials. Then there is a gap of several thousand; very few in the 6/7/8-thousands are documented, before shipments pick up again in later 1919/20, but with usually higher serials, 9/10-thousands. You may have come across some of the older threads discussing this. Yours falls right into the middle of this “dark era”.

PS: I notice it already has the 1920s stocks, but I don’t see anything penciled on them.

Yep. It is like there is something there but I cannot make out anything. I'll try some different lighting.

Targets Guy · #9 10-19-2017, 11:47 PM

Nope. Can't make out any writing. Will have to wait and see what the shipping date is.

Pouring over Ed 3 of the SCS&W again I read that beginning in 1917 (with overlap to perhaps 1920), the medallions were eliminated and the stock circles became plain and concavely rounded...

Absalom · #10 10-20-2017, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targets Guy

.....
Pouring over Ed 3 of the SCS&W again I read that beginning in 1917 (with overlap to perhaps 1920), the medallions were eliminated and the stock circles became plain and concavely rounded...

I see where you got that; the same wording is in the 4th edition. If it says that, there must be something to it, although personally I’ve never seen a 1917 RP with confirmed original concave-top non-medallion stocks. The paragraph is very non-specific and actually talking about the 1917 Army at first. It will be interesting to see what your letter says.

Hondo44 · #11 10-20-2017, 03:00 AM

There's two things being confused:

The logo stamped on the side of frame was eliminated during and after the war until 1920 when re-instated.

The recessed gold plated stock monograms (medallions) were used into 1920, then the tops of the stocks were made convex w/o medallions until 1929.

Targets Guy · #12 10-20-2017, 09:17 AM

I think only one thing is being confused. No issue with the lack of a logo stamp or the absence of the one line Made in USA. That seems consistent. The issue for me is the stocks. They sure look like they were made for the gun but I can find no evidence of any writing on the right stock panel; unfortunately there is a lot of black material on the inside of that panel. I've read in historical posts and in my copy of the 3rd edition that the factory did away with medallions during 1917 to increase production. I've also read in many places that the SCS&W is not the bible and has inconsistencies in it.

I'm in place to find out the shipping date today or soon and all that will tell me is when the gun shipped not what stocks were on it. Next month I will more than likely letter the revolver and then I will know what stocks it shipped with.

Hondo44 · #13 10-20-2017, 11:26 AM

It likely shipped later or if there's no matching #s on the stocks, they're not original. Someone robbed the gold med stocks, not uncommon. Finding the serial number is made much easier using

The Gimps threshold tool. SMITH & WESSON DA 45 MODEL 1917 COMMERCIAL

Only the 1917 military production didn't have medallion stocks to increase production. There was no other production, only commercial guns in inventory shipped until the end of the war and with their med stocks.

And the SCSW 3rd pg. 20 and other locations is outdated information. SCSW 4th pg. 493 is updated info.

I have data from many letters in my data base that document gold medallion stocks to 1920 on all models. For example:

1993 Roy confirms that it shipped July 1917. No logo, gold meds.
2381 shipped in June, 1917, no frame logo, gold med stocks
4301 shipped on Sept. 15, 1917, RP, 4”, patent date on med stocks, no logo on frame
43XX shipped on 9/15/17, gold med check. stocks

266XXX 1918 no logo, gold med stocks
270836 HFT shipped in May of 1919 gold med target stocks
2762XX shipped in 5/19 RP, gold medallions, no frame logo

276144 shipped 1919 (Nov) gold med targets
276157 shipped 1919 (Nov) "
276179 shipped 1919 (May) "
276211 shipped 1919 (Dec) "
276254 shipped 1919 (May) "

Targets Guy · #14 10-20-2017, 12:30 PM

Good stuff Hondo44, thanks. What surprises me about someone "robbing" the medallions is these stocks are very specific to the Regulation Police, not quite like replacing K frame stocks from one K frame to another.

And those last two groups were obviously not Regulation Police as their serial numbers only got to 54xxx by end of production in 1940.