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Old 11-17-2014, 11:59 AM
MrTrolleyguy MrTrolleyguy is offline
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Default Relieved & Non Relieved Grips? Help Pls

A side by side photo could make the difference clear.

We could already own a set of valuable unrelieved grips and be unaware of it.

I am willing to bet that I am not the only member who wants to know more about them. Which models had them, what time periods and variations are there? What does the value continuum look like? The more detailed the answers the better.

Of course we'd all like to see photos of your examples.

Looking forward to getting some feed back.

Fill us in please.


Joe

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Old 11-17-2014, 12:13 PM
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This is Non-Relieved targets on a Pre 27, from Sept 1953. It is my understanding they were utilized up until nearly 1960. Thew were available on the Mod 29, 27, and early 58's.

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Old 11-17-2014, 12:28 PM
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OK, I'll play!

The target stocks shown below have the "extractor relief cut". This modification was made to allow the extraction of ammunition / spent cases without the marring that occurred on non-relieved target stocks.

These stocks are more commonly known as "Football Targets" for obvious reasons.
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Old 11-17-2014, 12:45 PM
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1950 Marked the birth of target stocks. They were special order and unrelieved. In 1955 the "football" appeared. I routinely put them on most of my guns because I really like the way they feel. Speed-loaders wouldn't clear the wood, so a full cut-out was initiated in 1977.

**The diamond surrounding the screw was discontinued by executive order on Oct. 11, 1965 and reiterated 3 months later by another order. This cost-saving measure was not unanimously welcomed by the artisans in the wood shed.**

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Old 11-17-2014, 01:57 PM
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I had thought the relieved referred to something about the checkering or the diamond.

Thanks..

Now what about value?
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Old 11-17-2014, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike McLellan View Post
1960 Marked the birth of target stocks. They were special order and unrelieved. In 1965 the "football" appeared. I routinely put them on most of my guns because I really like the way they feel. Speed-loaders wouldn't clear the wood, so a full cut-out was initiated in 1977.

**The diamond surrounding the screw was discontinued by executive order on Oct. 11, 1965 and reiterated 3 months later by another order. This cost-saving measure was not unanimously welcomed by the artisans in the wood shed.**
You need to check your dates!
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Old 11-17-2014, 02:25 PM
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I've seen plenty of target stocks that were earlier than 1960.
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Old 11-17-2014, 02:41 PM
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Have a look at this current thread:

Last Non-Relieved Targets
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Old 11-17-2014, 02:43 PM
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Old 11-17-2014, 02:59 PM
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You need to check your dates!
I was only 4 years old! I didn't know any better!

**Dumb & Dumber**
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Old 11-17-2014, 03:47 PM
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Target stocks for N-frame revolvers were available in late 1952 (a few pairs were used earlier), but not cataloged until 1955. The relieved area on the left panel appeared in 1958/59, but was used in 1956 on coke bottle stocks on the 44 Magnum. The diamond around the escutcheon and nut disappeared in very early 1969. The overall shape of the stocks changed by 73/74 as the amount of wood where the stocks meet the frame near the trigger guard was reduced.

This is a lot of stock history in a few sentences, but a full chapter in a book could be devoted to post-war N-frame stocks.

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Old 11-17-2014, 09:43 PM
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To make this thread complete, could someone kindly post a picture of target stocks with the speed loader cut out?
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Old 11-17-2014, 10:42 PM
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Here is a set of the full speedloader cutout smooth Target Stocks


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Old 11-18-2014, 01:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H Richard View Post
This is Non-Relieved targets on a Pre 27, from Sept 1953. It is my understanding they were utilized up until nearly 1960. Thew were available on the Mod 29, 27, and early 58's.

Non relieved targets on my pre 25 as well

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk
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Old 11-18-2014, 02:10 AM
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I've never seen original non-relieved targets on an early 44 Magnum.
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Old 11-18-2014, 08:25 AM
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Not a very good picture. Early non-relieved smooth rosewood n frame stocks.Relieved & Non Relieved Grips? Help Pls-pix315120742-jpg
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Old 11-18-2014, 09:10 AM
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Not a very good picture. Early non-relieved smooth rosewood n frame stocks.Attachment 173706
lowhog - looks like Goncalo Alves to me
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Old 11-18-2014, 09:23 AM
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lowhog - looks like Goncalo Alves to me
Oh No! - Let's not start this argument again!!!!!!!
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Old 11-18-2014, 10:07 AM
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VM, They look like rosewood to me. Regards MikeRelieved & Non Relieved Grips? Help Pls-pix255465543-jpg
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Old 11-18-2014, 10:38 AM
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They are beautiful lowhog and no arguements Glowe
They just have alot of orange streaks/grains that look like GA to me.
It will help to see better, detailed pics inside and out once you get the gun
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Old 11-22-2014, 01:50 PM
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They sure a fine looking stocks, Mr. Lowhog, whatever tree they sprang from!

I am not one to debate a whole lot, especially on a subject I only have limited knowledge about. All I could say is that rosewood seems lighter / less dense than GA, but you gents would know more about that than I do!
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Old 11-22-2014, 03:48 PM
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Not to fuel the fire but I too think Lowhogs Stocks are Goncalo Alves that have been darkened over time with Hand Oils.Rosewood usually has elongated grain.Does not make any difference in the value however and I think GA smooth NR Targets are actually harder to find.
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Old 11-22-2014, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
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I've never seen original non-relieved targets on an early 44 Magnum.
Neither have I. The 44 Magnums started life with relieved "Cokes".
Only the very early "cokes" pre 44 Mag were non-relieved.



Conceivably any early 1950s N frame could have been 'special ordered' with the first "Cokes" that were non-relieved and all smooth.

And pre model 24, .44 specials and pre model 26 .45s were available with non-relieved targets but they were not cokes:

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Old 11-24-2014, 07:04 AM
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What can I say? N.I.B Combat Masterpiece .38 shipped 11-1953. Target hammer and non relieved walnut target stocks. Big Larry

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Old 11-24-2014, 08:17 AM
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VM, I think your correct on the GA's They are light in weight.Relieved & Non Relieved Grips? Help Pls-dscn1160-jpg

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Old 11-24-2014, 09:39 AM
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I've seen plenty of target stocks that were earlier than 1960.


Hello wbraswell
You are correct. Here is my Model of 1955 that shipped late for a Five screw configuration being December of 1959. I was told that the reason for the five screw configuration was that S&W had made up a surplus of Five screw frames for the Pre-29's and they were a slow Mover in 1959 so they simply used this frame and Punched out the heat Treated cylinder to make up the .45 ACP caliber out of it. That means this gun is heat treated just as the Pre-29's were so I have little worries about hand Loading it to Maximum level's and it respond's well as show with it's six shot target shot @ The 25 Yard Line. it now is wearing a set of original Walter Roper stock's from the late 1930's as show and will be with me in the wood's when I Hunt Deer this season. Regards, Hammerdown









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Old 11-24-2014, 06:54 PM
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Hammerdown,

Very nice gun and target!
Now that's a bragging group! The guns will probably all do that but not near as many of the gun's shooters can!
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Old 11-25-2014, 07:53 AM
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Hammerdown,

Very nice gun and target!
Now that's a bragging group! The guns will probably all do that but not near as many of the gun's shooters can!
Hello Jim
I appreciate your Kind Word's here. I have a K-22 Target that shows a six shot Group as well this Tight I strive for prefection when shooting these Target's and working up these Loads this will be my Deer Hunting load for this week if I see one close enough to use it. Regards, Hammerdown
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Old 11-25-2014, 08:10 AM
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"...Punched out the heat Treated cylinder to make up the .45 ACP caliber out of it."

We will never know for sure, but takes a bit of work to convert a .44 Magnum cylinder into a .45 ACP cylinder. Not only do you have to rechamber it, but it has to be shortened on the rear for the headspace and then shortened on the front due to the longer barrel shank.
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Old 11-25-2014, 08:35 AM
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"...Punched out the heat Treated cylinder to make up the .45 ACP caliber out of it."

We will never know for sure, but takes a bit of work to convert a .44 Magnum cylinder into a .45 ACP cylinder. Not only do you have to rechamber it, but it has to be shortened on the rear for the headspace and then shortened on the front due to the longer barrel shank.
Hello Muley Gil
I can Only asume that the factory Utilized an existing cylinder for this Gun as they did the frame that it has. The cylinder show's to be grainy in it's Blued Look's as it has been heat treated but I can Not be sure it is a heat Treated cylinder I can Only assume that it is as S&W does not waste their spare Part's when making up these Older style of Guns. What ever it is, it is an accurate tack driver i do know that they made this one Right How's that ? Regards, Hammerdown
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Old 11-26-2014, 06:23 AM
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Hi
Here is a 17-2 K-22 that I had Ford's Custom Gun refinishing Nickel plate for me , shown wearing a set of Rose wood smooth Target stocks. This Gun came to me with an amateur job of a re-blue on it where they ruined the S&W Trade mark making it real faint in nature so Ford's re-cut it for me as well. Regards, Hammerdown



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Old 11-26-2014, 06:33 AM
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Hello
Here is another K-22 I saved that had a Horrible Bluing finish on it when I Bought it. It was made in 1948 & I sent it off to Ford's Custom Gun refinishing and they applied their Master Polished Bluing finish on it and Placed a McGivern Gold bead sight blade that I sent down there with it. It is shown wearing it's original Walnut Diamond center target stocks that came to me on it, i surmise the original owner placed them as the gun is Far Too early to have come with them. Regards, Hammerdown



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Old 11-26-2014, 06:41 AM
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Damn, that's one fine blue job!
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Old 11-26-2014, 07:16 AM
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Damn, that's one fine blue job!
Hello Hondo
Ford's do nice work period. Here are some more they did for me Including my First year 1935 Registered Magnum shown, this gun was all done by hand by master Gun smith Horace Ford he really payed attention to detail on this one. Not trying to De-rail the Thread here as this gun show's Pre-War Magna's that I refinished. Regards, Hammerdown











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Old 11-26-2014, 07:31 AM
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Hi
Here is a Pre-30 that I carried for a Long time, chambered in .32 S&W Long Cartridge. It is shown with it's original Diamond center serial Numbered Magna's. This was originally Blued and had Lot's of corrosion so I sent it off to Ford's and had it Hard Chrome finished due to me Carrying it daily. I carried it Three full year's and these are picture's of it just before i gave it to Our Daughter as a wedding present it is her first carry Gun. Ford's forgot to Place the Barrel pin in it when they did this Hard chrome finish for me so I sent it back and they Placed the barrel Pin in it for me. They remove all Pins and even the cylinder stop's when they refinish a revolver. I thought Ya'll may want to see some of their best refinishing effort's in this thread, not trying to de-rail the Thread here just share some of their finest work, this one was so Rough that they had to re-cut the S&W Trade mark stamp in it as well. Regards, Hammerdown




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Old 11-26-2014, 07:36 AM
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How much does Ford's charge for refinishing and how much does that affect the value of an original piece?
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Old 11-26-2014, 08:00 AM
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Not speak for Hammerdown but I gather from what he posted, those shown above, I believe had little original condition value to speak of left. So they're probably worth a lot more now as beautiful as they are.

A factory level blue on a K22 was $400. But I think the blue jobs above must be Ford's premium level blue.
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Old 11-26-2014, 08:08 AM
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How much does Ford's charge for refinishing and how much does that affect the value of an original piece?
Hello Leatherhead
They are a Lot Cheaper than the factory. If you have any work done by them be sure to tell them I told you about their services it will save you an additional 10 % on the cost of refinsihing. Here you Go... Hammerdown


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Old 11-26-2014, 08:47 AM
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I think I'll give them a try....very reasonable it seems. And the work speaks for itself! Thanks!
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Old 11-26-2014, 08:54 AM
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I think I'll give them a try....very reasonable it seems. And the work speaks for itself! Thanks!
Hello
I have a Gun down there right now the Turn around time is Good being about Three Month's, I sent them a beat down High Standard Derringer in .22 W.M.R, caliber and asked her to hard Chrome High Polish it for me as I Plan On carrying it to Death. I would suggest that you call down there and Speak with Larna the shop owner and Tell her Hammerdown sent you to get your 10% discount that will at least take care of the sales tax and a Little of the cost of refinishing they do great work I know that you will Not be disapointed. Regards, Hammerdown


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