Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > Smith & Wesson Revolvers > S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961
o

Notices

S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-25-2015, 09:43 PM
P&R Fan P&R Fan is offline
Member
Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties?  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NE Iowa
Posts: 5,448
Likes: 1,950
Liked 3,491 Times in 1,286 Posts
Default Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight Heavy Duties?

In the Catalog it says 10 aluminum framed Heavy Duties were made in 1955. Had 4" and5" barrels and both fixed and target sights. Was apparently built on a test basis for the police market. Just wondering if anybody on here has seen one?
We all love the Heavy Duty. This one sounds uber cool.
Jim
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-25-2015, 09:47 PM
DWalt's Avatar
DWalt DWalt is offline
Member
Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties?  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Texas & San Antonio
Posts: 33,479
Likes: 236
Liked 28,938 Times in 14,012 Posts
Default

I don't know anything about lightweight HDs, but it seems to me that using an alloy frame negates the two most important reasons for having an N-frame .38: Mass to control recoil, and strength to handle heavy loadings. What were they thinking?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-25-2015, 09:47 PM
shawn mccarver shawn mccarver is offline
SWCA Member
Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties?  
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 7,907
Likes: 3,513
Liked 6,728 Times in 2,620 Posts
Default

Calling 1Aspenhill, calling 1Aspenhill. . . .

Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #4  
Old 01-25-2015, 09:49 PM
shawn mccarver shawn mccarver is offline
SWCA Member
Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties?  
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 7,907
Likes: 3,513
Liked 6,728 Times in 2,620 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DWalt View Post
I don't know anything about lightweight HDs, but it seems to me that using an alloy frame negates the two most important reasons for having an N-frame .38: Mass to control recoil, and strength to handle heavy loadings. What were they thinking?
For some reason, I think they also did some Highway Patrolman revolvers with aluminum frames.

The reason was to make it weigh less on the officer's belt.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #5  
Old 01-25-2015, 11:32 PM
rburg rburg is offline
Member
Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties?  
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Kentucky, USA
Posts: 7,473
Likes: 2,830
Liked 6,261 Times in 2,170 Posts
Default

Yeah, what a terrible idea. They'd never build a Scandium 44 or any such thing. Worse still, a scandium 357 that might be called a 360. Who comes up with these ideas, over and over?
__________________
Dick Burg
Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Like Post:
  #6  
Old 01-25-2015, 11:38 PM
05CarbonDRZ 05CarbonDRZ is offline
Banned
Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties?  
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Cottage Grove,WI
Posts: 4,124
Likes: 1,540
Liked 5,516 Times in 1,649 Posts
Default

How about the 329PD....What a joke!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-26-2015, 12:11 AM
bmg60's Avatar
bmg60 bmg60 is offline
SWCA Member
Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties?  
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: big sky country montana
Posts: 1,332
Likes: 720
Liked 6,410 Times in 545 Posts
Default

Hi
Here is a picture of the alloy frame 38/44 they do exist but not all of the 12 ever made it out of the factory. I do not own it but I have held it.
Jim

Reply With Quote
The Following 83 Users Like Post:
-db-, 05CarbonDRZ, 1blindref, 2hawk, 410bore, 5BeansintheWheel, 629shooter, 94bronco, A10, alaskavett, Bat Guano, bigolddave, bill skebeck, bracebeemer, Ceapea, Chuck24, cmj8591, cmort666, CWH44300, ddixie884, DGT, donadler, dotdsd334, Doug M., gaucho1, George_in_SD, geraldw321, GerSan69, gripper, H P Bushrod, H Richard, HappyHunter, hardcase60, ibewbull, ironmikevelocette, Jack Flash, Jebus35745, Jeffrey A. Cooper, jell-dog, Joe Kent, JSW, KarmannGhia, keith44spl, Kershon, KertP, kimporter, ladder13, lawandorder, linde, loc n load, lowhog, MattO, mc5aw, montezumaz, Muley Gil, Nedroe, Ngtdog, nicky4968, P&R Fan, Qball, quinn, rburg, Reddog, Richard26675, Rick Bowles, Rick_A, RKmesa, S&W Oldtimer, Scott E White, shawn mccarver, sherrill15, snake803, StrawHat, SuperMan, TenTea, Texas Star, THE PILGRIM, Twiki357, usm1rifle, vonn, Watchdog, whelenshooter, Widetrack
  #8  
Old 01-26-2015, 12:15 AM
shawn mccarver shawn mccarver is offline
SWCA Member
Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties?  
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 7,907
Likes: 3,513
Liked 6,728 Times in 2,620 Posts
Default

Jim:

Now you have me thinking. . . did S&W just build the alloy frame HD Target, or did they also attempt it with the Highway Patrolman?

Thanks for the reminder.

Shawn
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-26-2015, 12:31 AM
bmg60's Avatar
bmg60 bmg60 is offline
SWCA Member
Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties?  
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: big sky country montana
Posts: 1,332
Likes: 720
Liked 6,410 Times in 545 Posts
Default

Shawn
The 12 frames were all they made and they called them Heavy duties but they were target guns so they should have been called outdoorsman. I guess you could call it a 28 but it is still a prototype revolver.
A great gun and it was a honor to be able to handle it.
Jim
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
  #10  
Old 01-26-2015, 12:38 AM
mojave30cal's Avatar
mojave30cal mojave30cal is offline
Member
Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties?  
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Southern Utah
Posts: 1,778
Likes: 4,170
Liked 2,784 Times in 891 Posts
Default

Light weight Heavy Duty....talk about an oxymoron!
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-26-2015, 12:56 AM
05CarbonDRZ 05CarbonDRZ is offline
Banned
Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties?  
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Cottage Grove,WI
Posts: 4,124
Likes: 1,540
Liked 5,516 Times in 1,649 Posts
Default

Where is the Gun Jim? In a Private collection?
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-26-2015, 01:12 AM
bmg60's Avatar
bmg60 bmg60 is offline
SWCA Member
Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties?  
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: big sky country montana
Posts: 1,332
Likes: 720
Liked 6,410 Times in 545 Posts
Default

Alex
There are 2 or 3 and they are in collections. I have only seen the one in the picture I don't know if they are all the same configuration or not.
Jim
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-26-2015, 01:26 AM
ddixie884's Avatar
ddixie884 ddixie884 is offline
Member
Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties?  
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Avery,Tx
Posts: 2,563
Likes: 3,812
Liked 1,860 Times in 938 Posts
Default

THANX for the photo and the insight. Jim you are a real asset to the forum and have given me the chance to see things I wouldn't have.
__________________
dd884
JMHO-YMMV
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-26-2015, 11:15 AM
bettis1's Avatar
bettis1 bettis1 is offline
US Veteran
Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties?  
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,999
Likes: 181
Liked 2,719 Times in 724 Posts
Default

Great gun, Jim. Do you know if the rosewood presentation grips were the factory originals?

Bob
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-26-2015, 12:26 PM
alaskavett alaskavett is offline
US Veteran
Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties?  
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Wasilla ALASKA
Posts: 1,327
Likes: 2,293
Liked 259 Times in 154 Posts
Default

Jim, so this is a 4 screw from 1955? Thanks for sharing the photo with us. Kyle
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-26-2015, 12:40 PM
rburg rburg is offline
Member
Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties?  
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Kentucky, USA
Posts: 7,473
Likes: 2,830
Liked 6,261 Times in 2,170 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmg60 View Post
Hi
I do not own it but I have held it.
How is that possible, Jim? You never impressed me as a guy who gives up easily!
__________________
Dick Burg
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #17  
Old 01-26-2015, 12:59 PM
Engine49guy's Avatar
Engine49guy Engine49guy is offline
Member
Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties?  
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Florida
Posts: 7,769
Likes: 2,467
Liked 8,294 Times in 2,907 Posts
Default

Neat prototype but considering the Combat Magnum was on the drawing board in 1955 an "Airweight" N frame 38-44 in comparison makes about as much sense as a HB Model 12 .
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01-26-2015, 02:41 PM
JSW's Avatar
JSW JSW is offline
SWCA Member
Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties?  
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 1,081
Likes: 1,702
Liked 735 Times in 271 Posts
Default

I’ve heard of them but never saw one until now.
__________________
John
S&WCA Life Member
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 01-26-2015, 03:53 PM
DWalt's Avatar
DWalt DWalt is offline
Member
Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties?  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Texas & San Antonio
Posts: 33,479
Likes: 236
Liked 28,938 Times in 14,012 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Engine49guy View Post
Neat prototype but considering the Combat Magnum was on the drawing board in 1955 an "Airweight" N frame 38-44 in comparison makes about as much sense as a HB Model 12 .
It's just a characteristic of business that innovative but illogical products appear from time to time, then vanish. It probably did not take long for S&W to figure out that an alloy N-frame was an idea which was a non-starter.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01-26-2015, 04:01 PM
Engine49guy's Avatar
Engine49guy Engine49guy is offline
Member
Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties?  
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Florida
Posts: 7,769
Likes: 2,467
Liked 8,294 Times in 2,907 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DWalt View Post
It's just a characteristic of business that innovative but illogical products appear from time to time, then vanish. It probably did not take long for S&W to figure out that an alloy N-frame was an idea which was a non-starter.
The words "Airweight" and "Heavy duty" when used together are kind of an Oxymoron like female mailman or Military intelligence..ha ha....JK.

Perhaps would have made more sense to chamber some Airweight N frames in .44 special as that round wouldnt fit in the K frame ?

Todays Airweight .44 Mags are relegated for stout wristed individuals and those that enjoy firing 165 grain +P+ .357 Mag out of a J frame Model 60.

Last edited by Engine49guy; 01-26-2015 at 04:04 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #21  
Old 01-26-2015, 04:23 PM
cmj8591's Avatar
cmj8591 cmj8591 is offline
Member
Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties?  
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 2,741
Likes: 1,160
Liked 4,445 Times in 1,595 Posts
Default

I'm certainly no expert on any of this but I bet this was the R&D and engineering departments experimenting with using aluminum for anything. It just happens that they used the HD as the ginny pig but I bet that was just a coincidence. That is a really neat gun none the less.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 01-26-2015, 05:17 PM
gaucho1's Avatar
gaucho1 gaucho1 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Farrrrrrrrrr West
Posts: 1,449
Likes: 1,055
Liked 597 Times in 282 Posts
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmg60 View Post
Shawn
The 12 frames were all they made and they called them Heavy duties but they were target guns so they should have been called outdoorsman. I guess you could call it a 28 but it is still a prototype revolver.
A great gun and it was a honor to be able to handle it.
Jim
How did it feel in your hand?

It occurs to me that the proportions of an N frame may be preferred by some with larger hands.

I think it is a very interesting option.

Thank You for your first hand report..
__________________
I Love This Site
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 01-26-2015, 05:36 PM
boykinlp's Avatar
boykinlp boykinlp is offline
Member
Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties?  
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 7,219
Likes: 18,393
Liked 11,059 Times in 3,291 Posts
Default

Another example of why this forum is the best on the net. Find something obscure and a member will own it or at least have held it. Fantastic!
__________________
Miss My Buddy crsides!!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #24  
Old 01-26-2015, 06:27 PM
44R 44R is offline
SWCA Member
Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties?  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 171
Likes: 15
Liked 71 Times in 32 Posts
Default

That picture made my heart stop.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 01-26-2015, 06:43 PM
mr-mom's Avatar
mr-mom mr-mom is offline
SWCA Member
Absent Comrade
Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties?  
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Land of Lakes
Posts: 895
Likes: 1,299
Liked 953 Times in 408 Posts
Default

Thanks for sharing your insight and experience Jim. One more example of why I so much enjoy this forum and the fine people that make it up.
Dave
SWCA#2778
__________________
mr mom
Fire Chief, Retired
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 01-26-2015, 08:39 PM
shawn mccarver shawn mccarver is offline
SWCA Member
Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties?  
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 7,907
Likes: 3,513
Liked 6,728 Times in 2,620 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmg60 View Post
Shawn
The 12 frames were all they made and they called them Heavy duties but they were target guns so they should have been called outdoorsman. I guess you could call it a 28 but it is still a prototype revolver.
A great gun and it was a honor to be able to handle it.
Jim
Jim:

Thank you for the clarification! I appreciate it very much.

Shawn
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 02-05-2015, 05:32 PM
ferdieguba ferdieguba is offline
Member
Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties?  
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 23
Likes: 2
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

WOW, might of worked if the model 19 did not come along
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 02-05-2015, 05:35 PM
S.B.'s Avatar
S.B. S.B. is offline
Member
Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties?  
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,618
Likes: 49
Liked 721 Times in 369 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmg60 View Post
Hi
Here is a picture of the alloy frame 38/44 they do exist but not all of the 12 ever made it out of the factory. I do not own it but I have held it.
Jim

Thanks for you contribution on this. It's feels great to be 67 and still learn things.
Steve
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #29  
Old 02-05-2015, 08:25 PM
movieguns movieguns is offline
Member
Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties?  
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Near Los Angeles
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default "Uber Cool"

There is a reason these are super rare. The cops didn't want them because the trigger guards broke easily and the lightweight frames didn't stand up to heavy loads for any length of time. It would be nice to have one in a collection though.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 02-05-2015, 09:34 PM
mc5aw's Avatar
mc5aw mc5aw is offline
Member
Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties?  
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The free state of PA
Posts: 5,224
Likes: 5,721
Liked 8,584 Times in 2,782 Posts
Default

I find it fascinating that a half century before lightweight metals became so popular for firearms, S&W was already making advancements in metallurgical usage. The modern day 325PD, 325TR, 329PD, and Night Guards are direct descendants of that 1955 model.
__________________
I'm with the banned ...
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #31  
Old 02-05-2015, 09:46 PM
DWalt's Avatar
DWalt DWalt is offline
Member
Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties?  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Texas & San Antonio
Posts: 33,479
Likes: 236
Liked 28,938 Times in 14,012 Posts
Default

"I find it fascinating that a half century before lightweight metals became so popular for firearms, S&W was already making advancements in metallurgical usage."

Colt was working on lightweight aluminum alloy frames for automatics in the late 1940s, somewhat earlier than S&W was working on revolver frames. It was a much more complicated development project project than most would imagine. Colt worked with Alcoa for years before they came up with a suitable product, the Colt Commander in 9mm. The S&W Model 39 was not too far behind, but the aluminum frame did not work out too well.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #32  
Old 02-05-2015, 09:57 PM
kwill1911's Avatar
kwill1911 kwill1911 is offline
SWCA Member
Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties?  
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Central TX
Posts: 2,616
Likes: 998
Liked 4,493 Times in 1,232 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by movieguns View Post
There is a reason these are super rare. The cops didn't want them because the trigger guards broke easily and the lightweight frames didn't stand up to heavy loads for any length of time. It would be nice to have one in a collection though.
With only 10-12 made, how would they know this?
__________________
Kevin Williams SWCA1649 HF208
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #33  
Old 02-05-2015, 10:37 PM
MARSHALDILLIONDODGECITY MARSHALDILLIONDODGECITY is offline
Member
Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties?  
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: ?
Posts: 23
Likes: 95
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmg60 View Post
Hi
Here is a picture of the alloy frame 38/44 they do exist but not all of the 12 ever made it out of the factory. I do not own it but I have held it.
Jim

I held one and it was amazingly light, I commented to the owner a fellow Trooper, "you're not going to shoot this thing
are you"
He stated he had and it wasn't the most pleasurable experience.
I think he sold it shortly thereafter, this was approx. 10 years ago.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 02-06-2015, 12:39 AM
DWalt's Avatar
DWalt DWalt is offline
Member
Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties?  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Texas & San Antonio
Posts: 33,479
Likes: 236
Liked 28,938 Times in 14,012 Posts
Default

Yes, the real inconsistency is light weight for a large-frame revolver designed to use heavy loadings. A lightweight .38/44 is sort of an oxymoron.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #35  
Old 02-06-2015, 07:14 AM
mc5aw's Avatar
mc5aw mc5aw is offline
Member
Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties?  
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The free state of PA
Posts: 5,224
Likes: 5,721
Liked 8,584 Times in 2,782 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DWalt View Post
Yes, the real inconsistency is light weight for a large-frame revolver designed to use heavy loadings. A lightweight .38/44 is sort of an oxymoron.
Yet S&W has spent considerable resources offering various oxymoronic revolvers over the past decades. I owned a 396 Mountain Lite some years back, and sold it shortly after purchase simply because the recoil was too hot to handle. 19 oz for a .44 Special? Too light in my opinion. I believe the large frame Night Guards were a good middle of the road offering, as is the Governor and Thunder Ranch 325, as the inconsistency of lightweight + large caliber continues to be alluring to some folks.
__________________
I'm with the banned ...
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 02-06-2015, 08:21 AM
JSR III's Avatar
JSR III JSR III is offline
SWCA Member
Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties?  
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Massachusetts USA
Posts: 9,575
Likes: 3,695
Liked 8,923 Times in 3,544 Posts
Default

Quote:
Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight Heavy Duties?
Yes, theres a photo of one in post #7.
__________________
James Redfield
LM #497
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 02-06-2015, 08:42 AM
JSR III's Avatar
JSR III JSR III is offline
SWCA Member
Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties?  
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Massachusetts USA
Posts: 9,575
Likes: 3,695
Liked 8,923 Times in 3,544 Posts
Default

Quote:
The words "Airweight" and "Heavy duty" when used together are kind of an Oxymoron like female mailman or Military intelligence..ha ha....JK.
You have to remember that S&W started building smaller caliber guns on larger frames when Bekeart suggested the .22/32.

The .38/44 was IIRC the precursor to the .357 magnum. It was originally designed as a .38 caliber built on a 44 frame so the cartridge could be beefed up a little. The next logical inovation to having a small hot caliber in a larger frame gun would have been to try to lighten the frame.

The Heavy Duty referred to the smaller caliber being shot from the larger frame.

The Lightweight term referred to the weight of the metal frame. Using an alloy to remove weight really has no bearing on using a bigger frame to house a smaller hotter caliber.

Obviously, it is all moot as the prototype was never followed up by production.
__________________
James Redfield
LM #497
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 02-06-2015, 08:57 AM
Mickey D's Avatar
Mickey D Mickey D is offline
Member
Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties?  
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Carmen, Idaho
Posts: 4,294
Likes: 5,570
Liked 3,587 Times in 1,298 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmj8591 View Post
I'm certainly no expert on any of this but I bet this was the R&D and engineering departments experimenting with using aluminum for anything. It just happens that they used the HD as the ginny pig but I bet that was just a coincidence. That is a really neat gun none the less.
No doubt the case. Wouldn't start with a .357 or .44 not knowing the outcome of success with a .38
__________________
Memory of Randy Freas-Rimfired
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 02-06-2015, 09:42 AM
Green Frog Green Frog is offline
Member
Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties?  
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Central VA
Posts: 8,596
Likes: 1,550
Liked 9,320 Times in 4,181 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by movieguns View Post
There is a reason these are super rare. The cops didn't want them because the trigger guards broke easily and the lightweight frames didn't stand up to heavy loads for any length of time. It would be nice to have one in a collection though.
How can we know that "...the trigger guards broke easily and lightweight frames didn't stand up to heavy loads..." did any get that much testing? Are data from the tests available?

Lightweight Heavy Duty is no more jarring than Jumbo Shrimp!

Froggie
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 02-06-2015, 09:48 AM
Rick Bowles Rick Bowles is offline
Absent Comrade
Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties?  
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Posts: 659
Likes: 157
Liked 3,729 Times in 429 Posts
Default

There is an alloy frame "Heavy Duty" On page 156 of the SCS&W. This uber-rare revolver, from the Richard Nahas collection, is finished in nickel and features a five inch barrel, adjustable sights and what looks like cokes... talk about a "grail gun"!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #41  
Old 02-06-2015, 11:23 AM
Retired W4's Avatar
Retired W4 Retired W4 is offline
US Veteran
Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties?  
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Atlanta area
Posts: 8,796
Likes: 15,769
Liked 19,343 Times in 4,349 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Bowles View Post
There is an alloy frame "Heavy Duty" On page 156 of the SCS&W. This uber-rare revolver, from the Richard Nahas collection, is finished in nickel and features a five inch barrel, adjustable sights and what looks like cokes... talk about a "grail gun"!
What a gun that is. That paragraph leads the reader to the alloy .22 Hornet and strangely the book does not mention the weight of the .22.

Any read out on the originality of the stocks on the above pictured 38/44?
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 02-06-2015, 11:35 AM
DWalt's Avatar
DWalt DWalt is offline
Member
Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties?  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Texas & San Antonio
Posts: 33,479
Likes: 236
Liked 28,938 Times in 14,012 Posts
Default

And then there was the Edsel, which was supposed to be all things to all people. Books have been written about that decision. But the Edsel actually made it into production. Now, if S&W could have just come up with recoil-less ammunition for their lightweight .38/44....
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 02-06-2015, 12:40 PM
S.B.'s Avatar
S.B. S.B. is offline
Member
Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties?  
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,618
Likes: 49
Liked 721 Times in 369 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DWalt View Post
And then there was the Edsel, which was supposed to be all things to all people. Books have been written about that decision. But the Edsel actually made it into production. Now, if S&W could have just come up with recoil-less ammunition for their lightweight .38/44....
Having lived through this era, I'm of the belief that the Edsel was far in advance of it's time, instead of a bad investment. But, to each their own.
Steve
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #44  
Old 02-06-2015, 04:14 PM
Andrew2105 Andrew2105 is offline
Member
Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties?  
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Southeast USA
Posts: 116
Likes: 94
Liked 94 Times in 45 Posts
Default Too bad

It's too bad that the museum card fails to indicate the weight. presumably the reason behind the whole exercise.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 02-06-2015, 05:05 PM
DWalt's Avatar
DWalt DWalt is offline
Member
Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties?  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Texas & San Antonio
Posts: 33,479
Likes: 236
Liked 28,938 Times in 14,012 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by S.B. View Post
Having lived through this era, I'm of the belief that the Edsel was far in advance of it's time, instead of a bad investment. But, to each their own.
Steve
The Edsel's failure was not so much a result of the car's technology (but there were reliability and styling issues), but the fact that it was the wrong car at the wrong time at the wrong price. It's a prime example of a total failure of the Ford Marketing department's understanding of customers. And no one in the management of the Edsel project ever even considered the possibility that it might not be acceptable to large numbers of the buying public. There was never a thought given to consumer desires and test marketing. Their attitude was - if we make it, they will buy it. The result was a colossal marketing failure on a grand scale. In comparison, S&Ws lightweight .38/44 project failure was essentially nothing. They didn't tool up and make a million of them before discovering they had bet the company on a product that no one wanted, as Ford did with the Edsel.

Failures like S&Ws are actually a very good and healthy thing - educational and not too costly.

Last edited by DWalt; 02-08-2015 at 01:47 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 02-06-2015, 06:41 PM
wheelgun610's Avatar
wheelgun610 wheelgun610 is offline
Member
Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties?  
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Grinder's Switch, TN
Posts: 1,681
Likes: 1,440
Liked 1,444 Times in 664 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by S.B. View Post
Having lived through this era, I'm of the belief that the Edsel was far in advance of it's time....
The same could be said about the Tucker, the Studebaker, the Tesla....

Mark
__________________
S&W Forum Member #721
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 02-06-2015, 06:49 PM
wheelgun610's Avatar
wheelgun610 wheelgun610 is offline
Member
Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties?  
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Grinder's Switch, TN
Posts: 1,681
Likes: 1,440
Liked 1,444 Times in 664 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DWalt View Post
.... Failures like S&Ws are actually a very good and healthy thing - educational and not too costly.
I agree with the spirit of what you're saying, but I don't necessarily see the alloy 38/44 project as a failure. It was pretty standard R&D in a much less sophisticated engineering environment than the one we now live in.

I kinda miss good old fashioned simplicity....

Mark
__________________
S&W Forum Member #721
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #48  
Old 02-07-2015, 02:56 PM
Doug M.'s Avatar
Doug M. Doug M. is offline
Member
Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties?  
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Washington State
Posts: 7,445
Likes: 14,494
Liked 9,263 Times in 3,702 Posts
Default

I'd question whether the technology of the day would allow for an adequately sturdy product for the need, but I'm no engineer. I'm also not convinced that even if I am wrong about that, this is a solution to a real problem other than knowledge for its own sake.
__________________
NHI, 10-8.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 02-08-2015, 01:43 AM
GerSan69 GerSan69 is offline
Member
Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties?  
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: metro Phoenix
Posts: 3,192
Likes: 16,363
Liked 3,962 Times in 1,603 Posts
Default

It's all about the style, the design, the "let's try this" that makes people keep coming back and creating newer and better stuff. If it was all about "Well, if we can't top the success of the M&P .38, we aren't going to build it," there wouldn't be much out there in the way of anything but.
It's not about "need."
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 02-08-2015, 01:48 AM
DWalt's Avatar
DWalt DWalt is offline
Member
Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties? Anybody ever see one of the super rare Lightweight  Heavy Duties?  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Texas & San Antonio
Posts: 33,479
Likes: 236
Liked 28,938 Times in 14,012 Posts
Default

Or one could say it was the answer to a question that no one asked.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
LOOKING FOR HEAVY DUTIES 1Aspenhill WANTED to Buy 6 03-29-2015 09:18 PM
What are postwar heavy duties going for? nipster S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 13 11-18-2012 09:35 PM
WTB Heavy Duties *Please Withdraw* bluongo WANTED to Buy 4 07-31-2012 08:48 PM
Look. Another one of those 38/44 Heavy Duties. moosedog S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 4 02-08-2010 11:41 PM
Heavy Duties jimmyj S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 3 04-06-2009 07:22 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:26 AM.


Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)