Factory Letter for Union of South Africa Pre-Victory model

If that's not been refinished, which I'm inclined to think it has not, it's in great shape for a war-time gun. Have you done any research into what the South Africans used them for/who they were issued to?

That is in really nice condition! The grips are not original, they are for a post war gun.

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Tom
NRA Pistol Inst

What an awesome piece of history!!! Beautiful!!

Somebody chime in an explain those unusual "pecker" marks on the bottom of the left grip. Mike 2796

Probably picked up the grips at the same time as the trigger shoe.

Stock "pecker" marks? Someone using the gun to tap staples?

Anyway, a very nice gun.

I've just recently started looking into it. I have found some interesting info regarding South Africa's participation in WWII, and their military history all together at South African Military History Society - Title page.

Very nice, the one I had had lots of miles on it as most do. You got a real prize there.

I'm going to check Lobo's link, but in general, South Africa issued handguns to the usual people in a military context: officers, Military Police, crew-served weapons teams like machinegunners, tank crews, pilots, etc. Probably, dispatch riders, too. Have you seen the photo on the Net of a Canadian dispatch rider with a revolver, probably a five-inch S&W?

South African pilots in P-40's and Spitfires were very active in North Africa and the Italian campaign. The top-scoring Allied pilot other than a Russian was a South African, Marmaduke St. John Pattle. However, like his countryman, "Sailor" Malan, he was serving in the RAF, not the SAAF.

Did everyone see the threads here about the South African pilot named Harry Something? He carried a S&W .38-200 with six-inch barrel. He died recently at age 97, and the Briton who now owns his wartime revolver (which Harry retained after the war) and Harry's family contributed to those threads. But I think that although he was in the SAAF, he was "seconded" to RAF units in N. Africa and later, Burma. He was shot down by a B-29 over Burma when he tried to fly his Spitfire too close to see the big, new bomber. The B-29 crew had not been advised to be aware of Allied fighters nearby, and the gunner probably mistook his Spit MK VIII for a Kawasaki Ki-61. I think that was the second time he was shot down and had to parachute?

I asked whether he'd ever shot anything with that S&W .38, maybe something exciting like a mamba or a cobra. Nope: just a rat...

I think he was issued that gun in N. Africa, and it may have come from RAF supplies, not SAAF. There's at least one photo of RAF pilots in N. Africa wearing six-inch S&W's. They weren't issued proper holsters and had to cram them into Pattern M-37 webbing meant for five-inch barrels. The butts hung 'way out and the shape made it clear that they were S&W's.

Bear in mind that until the apartheid (segregation) issue caused South Africa to withdraw from the Commonwealth in 1960, when they became the Republic of South Africa, not the former Union, they were important US allies and the SAAF flew Mustangs and Sabres alongside USAF units in the Korean War.

I have a book on the SAAF and they had some nice planes. After the US arms embargo, they adopted Mirage III fighters and developed the Cheetah, very like the Israeli Kfir.

Besides military use, the South African Police used S&W .38 M&P revolvers (and Chevrolet cars) until they switched to P-38's, later a version locally made of the Beretta M-92F or FS. This is called the Z-88, and was supposedly very well made. I'm not sure if it's still made, as they can now get Beretta guns without having to smuggle them in against a UN embargo.

Be aware that South Africa also issued Webley MK VI .455's with four-inch barrels. That was evidently so they'd fit holsters made for MK IV and V revolvers with four-inch barrels. But the normal six-inch barrels may have also been used, and I suspect that not all S&W .38-200 and Victory Model revolvers used by South Africa had four-inch barrels.

They were only made with five-inch barrels after April, 1942, and presumably any sent to SA would have had that barrel length. I'm trying to recall if I saw webbling holsters made there for them or if they just used British holsters.

We have a member named Peter in South Africa who may be able to add more if he sees this. He's also on Gunboards. Look in the British Gun Pub forum there.

Oh: not all Webley MK VI's with four-inch barrels were made for SA. And they used both MK V style barrels and those with the distinctive MK VI front sight.

Here is one more link,

South African Military History Society - Journal- South Africa and the War against Japan 1941-1945


FWIW, here is my other South African Pre-Victory with its factory letter.