I have a 3 digit serial number postwar k-22 masterpiece that is in its original serial numbered gold box with tools and original paperwork. Guns original matte blue finish is almost like new with with just a hint of edge wear at muzzle...gunsmith said it looks to be unfired or fired only a few times. Screwdriver and cleaning rod look brand new and helpful hints is dated 4-42. Box shows some shelf wear with faint matching serial number on bottom. Serial number is K 86X. Streaks on finish is just oil.

Only, comparable sale that I have seen is that last fall a shiny finished factory reblued unboxed K22 3 digit went for almost 3 thousand dollars on Gunbroker which I thought was way too high.

Any thoughts from the experts on value would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you, Patrick S.

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	K22IMG_0670.jpg (142.7 KB, 390 views)
	k22FullSizeRender.jpg (135.0 KB, 368 views)
	GRIPIMG_0686.jpg (73.2 KB, 222 views)
	K22FORCONEIMG_0682.jpg (52.6 KB, 230 views)

Depending on how it would be offered for sale (local/online, sale/auction) I would think at least $1500, and probably much more in a bidding war. It is an early K-22 variation and having the complete package is even rarer.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

Thanks Alan for the prompt reply...some of those auctions go crazy and I'm just trying to get a realistic value in mind

Nice gun .

IMHO its an auction item.

Thanks...just tough to find comparable on the net

If it is truly unfired, in the original box with tools, numbered to the gun grips, I would give it a $2000 value.
I base this on a 3 digit, one line, lerk.

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Tom
NRA Pistol Inst

I'm with Tom, with everything you have there and high condition, $2000+ on Gunbrokers. There's a LERK like yours on auction now, keep an eye on it and see what it does. If the serial was under 200 then maybe $2500.

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Get off my lawn!

Is there any solid way to determine "unfired" condition with certainty...forcing cone looks to be blued and clean like the rest of the gun? Thanks so much!

Well, the factory fired it 3 times, in every other charge hole. Looking at the extractor rod it appears to have been fired some due to the wear there unless someone play with it a lot. I wouldn't worry about unfired condition, that one will speak for itself as is.

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Get off my lawn!

thanks!...is auction for LERK on gun broker?

Very nice 3 digit post war K22 !

IIRC we saw a similar package sell just above $2000 within the last 2 years but they do not pop up for sale very often in high condition with box,docs n tools so perhaps it might reach + or - $3000 today .

Two side notes are that besides having 3 digits in the serial the 3 digit LERK is no different than the 4 digit serial LERK that ran up to the (K-5000 ish) range.

The first change made was the deletion of the ejecctor rod barrel end (LERK) changing to a straight rod with knurled end with one line MADE IN USA, the change to a 4 line address came shortly afterwards.

While there is no such thing as an "Unfired S&W" (all were test fired in the factory), IMO pictures of the recoil shield are the best way to establish how much a S&W was fired outside the factory as a gun with ejector rod wear and muzzle wear IMO suggests being fired outside the factory so again good clear detailed pics including the recoil shield should be included if posted for sale.

I'd say your gun in worth in the $2,000 to $2,400 ballpark, maybe a even little more to a motivated buyer. Having the original box, docs, and SAT really adds to the package.

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Rick
SWCA #2727 , SWHF #435

Yes, but we're not allowed to post links to live auction. Just search for LERK.

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Get off my lawn!

I very much appreciate the great information! Thank you, Patrick S

Thanks Rick! I very much appreciate your assessment.

Let us know what you are doing? It would be nice to watch your beautiful K22 sell on GB. I'll even buy the popcorn. Good luck.

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Baby Chief Admirer
SWCA 2870

Guys
This thread brings up a question I have wondering about for a while. The OP's cleaning rod appears to have an oxide finish, rather than the later aluminum (silver) rod. Does anyone know when and for how long this style was being shipped. And on which models?
Thanks in advance for any feedback.

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

Thanks! Just wanted to get an idea of approximate value from the experts on the forum...if I decide to ever part with it, I will let everyone know. Any handling wear is probably from me taking it out of the safe and just oiling and fiddling with it over the years!

Hi Jack,

The finish on the cleaning rod is almost identical to the matte bluing on the gun rather than the oxide blade on nickel screwdriver if that helps. My 1952 pre 18 k22 combat has the aluminum cleaning rod and totally black oxide handle and blade screwdriver but I assume the aluminum rod came with late 1940s k-22s too.


Thanks, Patrick S.

Patrick
I appreciate the reply. I'm not sure what the finish actually is. I know the "black" SAT was finished with an oxide process, so I was guessing the rod was too. Whatever it is, it is different than the silver type.
I have two reasons for asking:
1. Simple curiosity, and wanting to know as much about S&W practices as possible; and
2. Because I have a 5" .38 M&P from March, 1946. It has the maroon box and the correct Helpful Hints, but no cleaning tools. I'm trying to determine what tools I should be looking for to complete the set. Since it is a fixed sight gun, I know I don't need a SAT. But which rod??? That's my dilemma.

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

Obviously, you can not state that the gun is unfired, so I would not give any value to NIB. It is in great condition, but I see what looks like some wear or touch-up at the muzzle and a slight groove under some blue touch-up around the cylinder. Also has wear on the extractor rod, so I would say that the gun has almost certainly been shot some, maybe quite a bit. Remember, this is a target gun, so a large percentage of these revolvers are in great shape for their age. They mostly go from the gun case to the range and home for a thorough cleaning and back in the safe. The value here is the fact that you have a scarce large extractor rod knob with a single line MADE IN USA. There are also those who will pay extra for low serial numbers. I think you have a K-22 that is worth $1000+/-. The serial number, however, could push that price if you get multiple bidders in an auction bidding against each other.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

Here is the SAT details for the tools that were around your era revolver. No black oxide or aluminum when your gun was made. If your handle is magnetic, it would be steel with nickel finish and appropriate for a 1946 gun box.

1940-1948: Nickel plated steel knurled handle with (9) bands of knurling, blued shaft and long tapered blade.

1947-1958: Blued steel knurled handle with (8) or (9) bands or knurling, black oxide shaft and long tapered blade. ***

1956-1960: Aluminum knurled handle with (8) or (9) bands of knurling, black oxide shaft and long tapered blade.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

That's great, Gary.
Now if someone could provide similar information for the cleaning rod, we'd be set!
I've asked this before and no one replies. Maybe that information is lost forever . . .

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

I very much appreciate you assessment. I will post a few better photos of the forcing cone, cylinder and grips. Grips may have some fuzz on them from my wiping the gun down with micro fiber. Didn't mean to overrate it, just haven't seen any 3 digit k22s that seemed as good as this one but I am sure they are out there. If I ever sell it I would list it as no better than excellent condition and leave it at that because it is obvious it has been used/fired.

POSTED ADD'L PHOTOS: FORCING CONES AND GRIP. Grip checking seems very sharp to me and actually makes it difficult to wipe gun down without getting fuzz caught in high points.


Thanks, Patrick

Attached Files

	K22FCRT.rtfd.zip (1.2 KB, 63 views)
	K22FORCINGCONELFT.rtfd.zip (1.3 KB, 24 views)
	K22GRIPS1.rtfd.zip (1.2 KB, 16 views)

Thanks Gary! Gun may be used/fired but the nickel handled SAT is very much perfect with no wear.

Take care, Patrick

Just stop listening to those who wish to run your gun down. Yes, we can all see the ejector rod wear. Its still a very desirable gun. No reason to play up the serial number. Being 3 digits is enough. The ones where 3 adds even more value are Drews K117. Yours is good enough. It speaks for itself. I juist go home from the gunshow. K22 Outdoorsman were priced in the $3000 and up range. Consider a fair value on yours to be $2000 up to $3000. If someone wishes to steal it for less, thank them and smile. Its just a very nice gun. And its all yours.

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Dick Burg

Patrick, don't get me wrong, this is a very nice K22 Masterpiece. It is the details that can get you in trouble when trying to sell a gun and the more accurate and conservative the seller is in their appraisal, the happier the buyer will be when they receive their winnings. I would recommend that you have someone well qualified determine percent of finish, as it can make a big difference in value. I see what I would call 98% original, which would rate excellent in Supica's book. If perfect, it would rate NIB or ANIB and the value could be 25% or more higher. The soft issue here is that you have a box and its contents, which would sell for more in pieces than as an accessory to the gun. Hints is selling for almost $100 if perfect condition. Box is going for $200 or more in that condition. SAT is probably above $200 now and the cleaning rod might bring $50. If you would sell these accessories separately, you could see over $500. I bet selling with the gun will reduce that by as much as half. Bottom line is everything is dependent on the appetite of the bidders on the day this gun sells. I have bought guns for a great bargain one day and paid too much at the next at auction.

BTW, does the box have a serial number on the bottom?

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Gary
SWCA 2515

Dick, I take exception to your statement. I do not believe anyone here is "running down" the OPs gun. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and I respect any and all members who have expressed their thoughts. I think your price is an obtainable number, but have not seen that high a sale in the last few months watching auctions. I make a hobby of watching C&R S&W revolvers at auction and try hard to keep up with the current numbers. I just checked and currently have 11 - K22s on various auction watch lists and have watched a couple dozen sell in the last couple of months for much less. The average selling price today for K-22s that I have watched is around $650. Highest price in was $890 with a box, no tools, and 98% condition. Now I can guarentee that I never find them all.

The unanswerable question here is the value adder for a 3 digit gun. If the right bidder mix is in the audience at a good auction house, price will go up, maybe way up, as I said in my post, but is that representative of the average value?

As for this gun, 2 pictures are nowhere enough for anyone to give a perfect assessment. Everyone will focus on what they can see, but only an in-hand appraisal will yield what we are looking at. My opinion is that the gun has been touched up and I can not tell how much. Nice gun, great if the box matches the gun, but we do not know that. I stand by my 98% and it may be lower, but I do not think any higher. I want the OP to understand that stating "unfired" can get any seller in trouble quickly, so look hard.

Attached Images

	Extractor Rod.jpg (9.4 KB, 112 views)
	Left Muzzle.jpg (13.9 KB, 107 views)
	right Muzzle.jpg (16.4 KB, 108 views)

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Gary
SWCA 2515

Thank you...additional pictures have been posted of grips and forcing cone. Also, box appears original with matching K86X serial number written in what looks like a crayon or grease pencil on bottom corner.

Thanks so much for your comments

Some additional photos of the k22 3digit in better light...both grips have checkering that is sharp and crisp but my photography is usually not

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	k22F.jpg (73.5 KB, 131 views)
	k22r.jpg (61.6 KB, 117 views)
	FullSizefinalr.jpg (64.0 KB, 107 views)
	GRIPIMG_0686.jpg (73.2 KB, 107 views)
	RIGHTGRIP.jpg (40.6 KB, 118 views)

I have a lnib 99% 4 digit K22 and I wouldnt sell mine for $2,000.00. Your gun, with the 3 digit serial number and all docs and tools should be worth around $3,000

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Kris
OGCA, NRA LM

410...I very much appreciate your insight. I know its not a new gun but its as close as I think I will ever find on a 3 digit. Full serial is K 868 as shown in photo...I think I am going to get this one lettered by S&W just to see when and where it shipped.


Thanks and have a great evening!

Patrick

Attached Images

k22final3digit.jpg (47.6 KB, 69 views)

Dick is correct. I have seen recently a LERK that was for sale above $3000, so do your homework and research. Nice gun!
Bill

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

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38-44heavyduty.com

I appreciate your insight on the matter!

Seth the extra pics of your high condition early post war 3 digit K22 do help alot but I would suggest taking better pics using either a light box or direct (or indirect) sunlight not only to remove any condition doubts but also to bring the best return on your sale when you do list it especially incuding some pics of the recoil shield and cylinder face , Not only as those are important for any K22 sale but to satisfy my curiosity ha ha....JK

On a side note a factory letter costs $50 but you will get that back in your sale IMO,

Lastly while some K22 collectors do covet low 3 digit serial numbers bear in mind that ship dates take precedence on age and quite a few "low" 3 digit K22's shipped much later than some that serial hundreds of digits higher making the factory letter that much more important for your gun.

Not taking anything away from your 3 digit K22 just want to make sure you are aware that S&W's were not made one by one then serialed and shipped in numerical order , Rather the actual revolvers were made in large batches (not in order) then stored in a vault then shipped by what was convenient to grab out of the vault to fill orders at that time.

Great gun and great thread ; )

Trying to establish watermark prices for individual guns is very difficult. As others have stated it really depends on how many folks are looking when you decide to sell. The gun pictured in my avatar is an Outdoorsman that I acquired with box but no tools or paperwork. I paid around $2,500 in an auction which was about $500 over my cut off price. Obviously, I got caught up in the whole auction frenzy and just wasn't going to be outbid. I had also recently lost a very nice .22/32 in an auction and was probably pumped by that loss.

Is a first year Outdoorsman worth more than a three digit K-22 Masterpiece? I would think so but then how do you explain the auctions that were posted about with guns going for $3,000 or $5,000.

It all boils down to whether the right buyer is out there at the time that you are selling and whether he or she has deep enough pockets. Certainly the more potential buyers, the higher the price. Having the complete package also appeals to a lot of buyers.

Personally, I would set a top price of around $2,000 for a complete package K-22 Masterpiece with either a 1, 2 or 3 digit serial number. But thats just me...

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James Redfield
LM #497

Another good way to try to see how much a gun might sell for is searching Gun Broker completed auctions of guns similar to the one you are selling. It's important to look at guns that actually sold, not at what sellers are have as an opening bid. Penny / no reserve auctions are the best ones to look at. It's not the end all for placing value since much depends on how many motivated buyers thee are, but it should give you an idea.

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Rick
SWCA #2727 , SWHF #435

Just noticed a k-22 3 digit on Gun Auction bid up to $920 with 3 plus hours left. Gun is a 60%-65% condition example with a decent non-matching # box. Will be interesting to see where auction ends. Not really comparable to mine from a condition standpoint but should provide a baseline for 3 digit premium vs comparable condition k-22 of the era.

Thanks again everyone for your great advice and comments!

Patrick

Smith Wesson Pre-Mod 17 Rare LERK K-22 NO RESERVE : Revolvers at GunBroker.com

This will answer a lot of questions about worth, or raise some more .

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Vietnam 1969-1971

Here is the closed auction for a three digit LERK that jackthedog sold on Auction Arms recently. Not near the condition of the OP.
Ed

SMITH & WESSON ~ K-22 TARGET MASTERPIECE (Pre-Model 17) Early, SN K549...Mfd 1947, C&R... For Sale at GunAuction.com - 13273392

I believe this is the one that comes closer to the condition of yours and should give you a good idea of where yours stands.

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Get off my lawn!

I very much appreciate the great assistance regarding my 3 digit K-22...thanks everyone!

Patrick

I agree with Jeff with a side note that it was a 4 digit serial and perhaps the right collector is willing to pay a premium for a 3 digit gun .


Kinda reminds me of the early special order"Bekeart" I frame .22-32 target guns originally commissioned by Mr. Phil Bekeart ,
There were a few overruns from that order in the same serial range but collectors pay a premium for those that actually letter as shipping to P.B. as that makes them higher in "Bekeartness" than identical guns sold through other dealers.

These auctions fairly well point out how condition plays a role in price. The three digit in relatively sad shape only sold for $920 whereas the 4 digit in real pristine shape sold for over 2K.

It appears that a minty Outdoorsman should be in the $2-3k range and a minty pre 17 Masterpiece either 3 or 4 digit serial range is gonna fall around the $2k area.

Obviously, these ballpark numbers will always be affected by who is looking at any given time and how deep there desire is and how deep their pockets are. Add auction fever to the mix and like when shooting there is always the chance for a flier shot that doesn't fit the norm.

If I were looking for one gun to fill a hole in my collection and had just hit powerball for 300 million dollars last week, there would be NO price that I wouldn't pay for the right package.

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James Redfield
LM #497