I'm looking at M&P that has been (according to seller ) "arsenal" converted to .38 Special. it has the Canadian broad arrow, flaming bomb and WB marks. Is this something interesting to look at or is it a case of " Frankengun alert...****n away"?

I know the catalog warns about some of the conversions of these guns being poorly done/unsafe. Also, I've found references toissues with barrel diameter with .38spl being .357 and .38S&W being .361??

As someone who is fairly new I really appreciate the expertise and advice available here. I hope someone can help me out with some information and advice.

Thanks in advance

No collector value in this one . They shoot ok generally speaking the cases will bulge upon firing some state they may split but I haven't had that problem with the ones that have passed through my hands. Not arsenal done. So bottom line if you want it and get it cheap like $150-200 it would be ok as a shooter but no more than that.

I remember when "American Rifleman" had ads for those 'converted' revolvers for under 5 bucks and postage. LGS had a Bavarian Police marked one similarly butchered not long ago. Seems like a lot of Smiths and Colts in .38/200 got that treatment. Not an inconsiderable number of .455 chambers had .45 Colt reamers run into them back then too.

Just shoot 38 S&W ammo in it and everything will be fine. Don't shoot 38 Special if you want to be on the safe side.

The bore diameter is not the problem. The problem is that the S&W case is larger in diameter than the Special case by a few thousandths of an inch, so the Special case will bulge or split if you fire it.

I don't think any "arsenal" did these conversions, but even if they did, the problem remains the same.

One thing I've personally observed over the years is that there are sellers who have told me some whoppers to get my money. As a result, I've developed a pretty good ability to detect B.S. My B.S. receptors tell me you've encountered one of those types of sellers yourself. As others have said, the conversion wasn't performed at any arsenal, and if the seller believes it was, he bought the same story he's trying to sell to you.

There's a popular phrase on this forum that goes like this: "Buy the gun, not the story".

Mark

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S&W Forum Member #721

It's a pre-Victory, owing to the lack of the V prefix to the SN, and shipped in early 1942. As noted, it's not in original condition, having bored chambers and incorrect stocks from considerably later than 1942. The second pair of stocks shown could possibly be original, as the changeover from the civilian-style checkered grips with medallions to smooth wood occurred early in 1942. A blued finish would have been correct for that time. And of course, the original lanyard swivel is missing, but could easily be replaced.

Converted chambers are not dangerous, but do destroy any collector interest, and are best avoided unless you are looking for a shooter at a low price. The conversion may have been competently done (note the stamping on the barrel flat, which is unusual), but was not done at any military arsenal.

Thanks guys...my antenna was quivering a bit on this one already.

The seller did reply to me and say that the cylinder was reamed and then sleeved during the conversion so the .38 special case size problem wasn't an issue. Sent this photo of the cylinder....

If you could get it for $300-$400,it would make a nice woods walking gun.

It does appear from the picture that the chambers have been sleeved which would indeed indicate a competent conversion, far better than simply running a .38 Special chambering reamer into all chambers which was the typical method. But it is still un-original.

I can't tell from the pic whether or not the cylinder has been sleeved, but to me, the extractor looks as if it could possibly be a replacement. It should have the same S/N as the rest of the parts if its the factory original.

The ejector rod knob is kinda buggered - as well as the barrel in the area of the locking lug....

I disagree about the spare set of stocks pictured. They're definitely not factory originals. They're the same aftermarket style seen on a lot of re-imported BSR's and Victory models. I can't see the medallions well enough on those to say whether they have S&W medallions or something else....

I also didn't see any mention of an asking price. That would be a major determining factor.

Mark

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S&W Forum Member #721

The way to tell for sure about the medallion round-top grips is to check for a SN stamping on the rear of the right panel. From what little I can see from the picture, I think they could possibly be original, and if so, they themselves could be worth some $$$ if in very good condition, as nice 1930s-style grips are in fairly high demand.

The border of the checkering is wrong, and there's no diamond around the screw hole. Not original....

Mark

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S&W Forum Member #721

The gun is in Canada (note my location) so asking price probably wouldn't mean much to you as our market is different. FWIW the ask is $600 CAD shipped which is about $475 USD at today's exchange rate.

$475 is still quite a bit more than I'd pay for the gun based on the photos I've seen. A pic of the front of the cylinder would be better to determine if it's been sleeved. I've seen several .38s that have a slight ring around the charge holes - presumably from cleaning.

Again, the extractor just doesn't look "right" to me. Pretty sloppy fit for a part that was hand fitted from the factory. The S/N on extractors is on the forward facing side and is only visible with the extractor in the "eject" position. There should also be two guid pins to keep it aligned with the cylinder....

Mark

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S&W Forum Member #721

Having not examined these types of grips in person, it is possible that they are original smooth Victories that have been checkered and then had medallions added to them.

A stamped number would confirm my theory.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Thank you to all for the information and advice. it confirmed my original concerns. I passed on this one.

I've seen a few sets of them over the years, and if I'm remembering correctly, they were all on re-imported (and "reconditioned") Victory models. For some reason, I'm thinking they might have been made by Parker-Hale, but don't quote me on that....

At any rate, I'd bet a cup of coffee they're not original S&W stocks.

Mark

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S&W Forum Member #721

As wheelgun610 pointed out the unmounted set of grips are not S&W in origin and are commonly seen on re-imported guns.

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John. SWCA #1586