Help with identifying this .22 revolver

jackbowen · #1 05-18-2015, 02:27 PM

Hello-I'm looking for help identifying model and when this gun was made. I think a postwar k22 but not certain. Serial # is 24045 with no prefix. There is no model # inside the yoke. Along with the frame # there is an "O". I also see that compared to the others I have seen in this forum and elsewhere, the cylinder latch is not typical. Perhaps a special order or after market? Any information would be appreciated. Thank you

JP@AK · #2 05-18-2015, 02:52 PM

I believe what you have is a Model of 1953 .22/32 Target revolver. This was built on the Improved I frame (smaller than the K frame K-22). Yours probably dates from 1957, shortly before the Model 35 designation came into use. For a reference point, serial number 32230 shipped in January, 1958, and does not have a model number stamped on it.

Engine49guy · #3 05-18-2015, 02:52 PM

Looks like a J frame "Pre" Model 35 , The cylinder release is called a "Flat latch" and would be period correct for a pre model as would the diamond Magna grips.

PS welcome to the forum.

JP@AK · #4 05-18-2015, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Engine49guy

Looks like a J frame "Pre" Model 35"

Actually, the J frame was not used on these until 1960 and those were marked as the Model 35-1. This gun is built on the I frame (smaller cylinder window).

Engine49guy · #5 05-18-2015, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JP@AK

Actually, the J frame was not used on these until 1960 and those were marked as the Model 35-1. This gun is built on the I frame (smaller cylinder window).

Thanks Jack...I always forget about the improved I frames...

Guess I need to start paying more attention to the area ahead of the trigger guard..

Hondo44 · #6 05-18-2015, 05:06 PM

Hi Jack,

Welcome to the forum.

That's a thing of beauty and a high demand model to find! From your serial #24045, and other #s with shipping dates in my database, it likely shipped late 1956 or early 1957.

It is a Model of 1953 .22/32 Target, a later 3 screw post 1956 version (a pre Model 35), but built on the New I frame.

My friends, JP@CK and Engine49guy are both close on which version it is.

I respectfully have to disagree a bit, though. These have been confused for years, even in the SCSW book. The Improved I frame (5 screw) is from c. late 1951 which introduced the coil mainspring to the post war transitional I frame, except for the .22/32 Kit Guns & Targets. Only the .32s & .38/32s were made on the Improved I frame, the earliest of which had a round front sight and later the ribbed barrel and ramped front sight.

The Model of 1953 New I frame (4 or 3 screw) is quite different; an entirely new frame forging which introduced the larger trigger guard and J frame sized grip straps to the I frame. As well as some new minor features like the new hammer spur with coarse checkering and flat latches.

Just like the difference between the Baby Chiefs Special and the Model of 1953 full size Chiefs.

Quite a difference shown here:

The top gun is a post war transitional I frame Kit Gun with leaf spring and 6 screws. It looks like a 5 screw Improved I frame, the improvement being the coil mainspring. But no .22/32 Kit Guns or Targets were made on the Improved I frame.

Bottom Kit Gun is a Model of 1953 "New I frame" (the true Pre-Model 34), and only had 4 and 3 screws. It still has the I frame size main frame cyl window length, but full size ‘J frame size’ trigger guard and round butt grip frame length, 1/8" longer than the pre war, post war transitional, and Improved I frame. Compare the amount of un-checkered wood below the checkering field. The new sq butt option and the Model of 1953 pre model 35 sq butt are an additional 5/32” longer.

Much more detail here if interested:
THE POST WAR I FRAMES EVOLUTION - Smith & Wesson Forum

k22fan · #7 05-18-2015, 05:46 PM

Welcome to the forum jackbowen,

That's a nice looking New I frame. Hondo44 is our resident expert on the small frames. I can't add anything to what he wrote. One of these years I'll own a 6" barrel J or I frame .22 LR but I haven't made it happen yet.

paplinker · #8 05-18-2015, 05:58 PM

Jim, Thanks for the great description of the different I frame designs. I still have been getting crossed up on the differences.

I hope you might be able to help get this correction made on the SCSW as the current info leads readers to be misinformed including myself. I think its harder to relearn something once put to memory a certain way. Do you think New improved I frame could make the book?

The model 35 is one of my favorites and was the first reason i bought the SCSW to learn about this gun.

DWalt · #9 05-18-2015, 06:05 PM

On my list I have SN 225xx which shipped in 1/57.

JP@AK · #10 05-18-2015, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hondo44

My friends, JP@CK and Engine49guy are both close on which version it is.

I respectfully have to disagree a bit, though.

Hi Jim
Thanks for the clarification. I knew about the changes you described in the evolution of the I frame. What I didn't realize was that the first improved version (coil spring change but retaining the shorter grip frame) had a different name than the later "New I frame."

I knew (and I believe stated correctly) that Kit Guns and .22/32 Target models remained on the I frame until 1960-61. But the the fact that the "improved" and "new" I frames actually had different names had escaped me. I agree with paplinker that you should persuade Jim Supica to include your descriptions into the 4th Edition of the Standard Catalog.

shouldazagged · #11 05-18-2015, 07:36 PM

Welcome aboard, Jack. I hope you'll stick around. You can see what kind of knowledge is available here, but there's also a lot of support for people facing tough times, and just a hell of a lot of fun to be had when these wise folks let their hair down (whatever they have left

) in the Lounge.

JSR III · #12 05-18-2015, 07:46 PM

Personally, I think that the first J frame Chief Specials should be referred to as being built on the J frame and the later version should be referred to as the Improved J frame. This would mimic the I frame and Improved I frame terms and eliminate the term "baby chief" being necessary.

Unfortunately it would be hard to rewrite history.

handejector · #13 05-18-2015, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSR III

Personally, I think that the first J frame Chief Specials should be referred to as being built on the J frame and the later version should be referred to as the Improved J frame. This would mimic the I frame and Improved I frame terms and eliminate the term "baby chief" being necessary.

Unfortunately it would be hard to rewrite history.

Don't be messin with my Babies......

Hondo44 · #14 05-19-2015, 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paplinker

Jim, Thanks for the great description of the different I frame designs. I still have been getting crossed up on the differences.

I hope you might be able to help get this correction made on the SCSW as the current info leads readers to be misinformed including myself. I think its harder to relearn something once put to memory a certain way. Do you think New improved I frame could make the book?

The model 35 is one of my favorites and was the first reason i bought the SCSW to learn about this gun.

You're very welcome.

I posted my I frame evolution commentary (linked in my above post) in Jim and Rick's thread asking for SCSW updates. He responded favorably, asked for permission from the photographers of the photos in it that I gave credit to, and seemed receptive.

Oh, and you're dead right, once I learn something wrong, it seems impossible for me to ever get it right!