Hello I have recently rescued a Victory 38 from a old sock drawer. It belonged to my brother in laws Grandfather who was a police office in New Jersey in the 1950's (not sure exactly when). I do not know if this was his service revolver or if it was just a gun that he owned, the story is a little gray here. This is what I do know:

38 S&W CTG
US PROPERTY GHD
V 371115

I did find a nice piece written up on the Victory models so I have a decent idea of what these guns are. I would like to narrow down the timeframe this was built. Also I would like to know if the US Government would have sold something like this to the NJ police in something like a surplus sale. Thanks for any info you can provide on this little piece of history. Thanks!

Jason

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	S&W 2.jpg (60.1 KB, 120 views)
	Victory 2.jpg (34.8 KB, 128 views)
	S&W 3.jpg (41.7 KB, 108 views)

Your gun is a British, or Commonwealth, revolver shipped in Aug. 1943. Many of these guns were returned t the US as surplus and converted to 38 Special by boring out the chambers. These surplus guns were sold very cheaply by many sources in the 1950s and that's probably where Grand Pa bought it. The Gov't did have a program ( Defense Supply Comm. ) to provide Victory Models to civilian law enforcement dep'ts, however your gun is not one of those.Ed.

Yes. Produced in 1943. DWalt can probably give you a more precise time period and may be able to tell you whether these were surplussed to any PD. Personally, I would be skeptical, since in the early postwar period, departments were ordering the postwar .38 M&P by the hundreds. Most departments wanted their revolvers chambered for the .38 Special, not the .38 S&W that was favored by the Brits during the war.

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

If you see lots of British proof stampings on the barrel and cylinder (none are apparent in the photos), it was likely sold by the British government into the commercial firearms market in the 1950s. If it has only factory stampings it was more likely a war souvenir, brought back from Europe after WW II in a duffel bag. Any chance your grandfather-in-law served overseas?

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

I wish I could get a clearer history on this gun but unfortunately my brother in law never asked. He just said "this was my Grandfathers gun and he was in the NJ police". It very well could have just been a piece that he picked up to carry personally. It does not look like it has been bored out to a 38 Special but I have not fired it yet so I don't know. Would it be worth sending in for the S&W cert on this? Does this information make my Victory less desirable because it was a commonwealth gun? Thanks for all of the great info!!

PS: No other stampings on the pistol other than the S&W marks.

Jason

If you have any 38specials around drop one in to see if it will go all the way in. If it does it has been bored out. You can fire 38specials in it but some may split the case. 38S&W cartridges are expensive if you can find them. If you reload it is cheaper.

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Tom
NRA Pistol Inst

Unfortunately family "memory" or history can wander far from the actual facts. I have a Model 1 1/2 tip up that the grandma said belonged to one of her great uncles (or whatever) and he had been a poiiceman in McKeesport, PA. Turns out he had been a policeman in MsKeesport, but it had been before the Civil War and he was killed in the War. The gun was shipped in 1871...... 'nuff said.....

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Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

You'll get different opinions on sending for a letter. To me, it's a no-brainer: Of course I'd sent for a letter, especially with the family connection, but I'm known to be fairly letter-happy. The letter likely won't tell you more than the exact ship date and probably some British purchasing commission on the East Coast, not any info where it went from there and what happened to it later.

Victorys made for Britain in .38 S&W are generally less valued than the US version in .38 Spl., if for no other reason than that the ammo is harder to come by. But to me, from a collector's point of view, a decent-condition Commonwealth gun, all matching serials, unmodified, uncontaminated by post-war British commercial proofs, is nothing to scoff at. In that configuration, you don't find them that often.

Have you checked for matching serial numbers? You should find the same number on the butt, on the cylinder face, the back of the extractor star, on the flat under the barrel, and on the inside (you need to take them off) of one or both of the wooden grip panels.

The British 38 S&W version of the Victory Model is less popular than the American version in 38 Special because of ammo cost and availability. The guns are equal in quality but the 38 S&W ammo is hard to find and pricey. This makes it a poor choice for the casual shooter who doesn't reload his own ammo. If you want a revolver to shoot you either start loading or sell this one and buy a 38 Special.

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No life story has happy end.

V 371115, as in posting #2, was very likely shipped in August 1943. Getting a factory letter is a pointless exercise for a British Victory, as it will not give you enough information to make it worth your $50. These things were imported from England by the boatload in the 1950s-60s to sell very cheaply on the US market. Many were sold by direct mail order, which was legal back then. Lee Harvey Oswald used one to kill Officer J. D. Tippitt. There is a truly limitless number of ways that your brother-in-law's grandfather could have picked it up, as they were everywhere, a great many having been bored to accept .38 Special ammunition. They have no collector interest and not much value, only what someone will pay for a cheap shooter or a throwaway.

Wow I guess that is that. Thank you for the information. I will keep it oiled and in my safe until my nephew is older and give it to him I guess, it appears to be worth more as a piece of family history than anything else. I appreciate the information.

I did tear it apart last night and found all of the SN and they do match, grips and all. There is one SN that didn't match but it is not a replaceable part so I don't know what it means. You see it when you pop out the cylinder (pic) There are also a couple marking I found when I took off the grips. It looks like it is a KO and 3 7. There are no other markings on the gun that are not supposed to be there. So it is at least a clean drop gun.

Thanks again

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	Grip 1.jpg (30.1 KB, 26 views)
	Grip 2.jpg (29.9 KB, 25 views)
	SN# 1.jpg (33.9 KB, 29 views)

It is possible to find ammo online so you can stock up if you want to shoot it. The problem is if you are out somewhere and need some quickly very few stores will have it on the shelf. The gun is not totally impractical, just not as convenient. I hate to see a good old gun retired. I have several revolvers in 38 S&W but I load my own ammo. Here are some sources to find factory loads.


.38 S&W Pistol Ammo | .38 S&W Ammunition | .38 Ammo

38 S&W Ammo - Revolver Rounds at AmmoToGo.com

38sw ammo handgun

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No life story has happy end.

I enjoy shooting my Victory model. I handload for it using 9mm dies. Just wish I had more brass.

I can recall 1960 or so and seeing literally barrels of Victory models at a big Surplus store on Rt 22 in North Jersey. SARCO is still in business, basically the same location. In the 1970's they sold M1 Carbines to LEO's on a Department letterhead for less than $100. With sling, oiler, magazines and some ammo.

I saw .38 Special Victory models used by Reserve and Auxiliary police units in Central NJ in the 60's and 70's. The Department I worked for had a few dozen along with Colt Official Police revolvers....all previously Surplus.

There was easy access to Surplus arms as a Police Officer and the prices were very reasonable. So Your Uncle may have bought it as a spare, or his department could have issued it as an off duty or even a practice weapon, though in .38 S&W I doubt it.

If he was a cop he most likely belonged to the NJ PBA. The Patrolman's Benevolent Association. Check with them, they may have some information on your Uncle...certainly which Department he worked for.

FN in MT

The number on the frame as well as the letters are assembly marks. They are usually not decodable nowadays, but are not expected to match anything. If the numbers match in the five places I listed, you could sell the gun as "all matching".

Colt revolvers and some later Smith & Wessons had their serial number in that place, but not this one. It's a frequent source of confusion.

The only purpose of the assembly numbers was to allow fitted parts to be kept together during assembly. At one time, most S&W revolvers required some hand-fitting during "soft assembly", and once fitted, the specific parts were marked with the same number for later final assembly. Later, that need was somewhat eliminated by more precise machining.

"I enjoy shooting my Victory model. I handload for it using 9mm dies. Just wish I had more brass."

I don't know anything about the current availability of .38 S&W brass, but not too long ago you could get all you wanted from several sources. Another option is to use .38 Short Colt cases, or as a last resort, you can shorten .38 Special cases. That is a tedious procedure, but at one time I made up several hundred of them. A little small in diameter, but they work OK. I have always used .38 Super dies for reloading .38 S&W.