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06-20-2015, 05:50 PM
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M1917, what should I do ?
So, I just bought a M1917 on a online auction. The finish seems a little rough. Should I have it refinished or should I enjoy it the way it is.
According to the serial number it was manufactured in 1919 so it is not a gun from the Great War and their is no lanyard ring.
I never post on this forum but, I'm on it every day looking at guns that look great and reading posts of people whom have wealth of knowledge that I envy.
Last edited by davefromhere; 06-20-2015 at 05:51 PM.
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06-20-2015, 06:02 PM
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First thing to remember is that it's your gun and you should do what makes you happy with it. The next best thing to do is to is to get the gun lettered to try to figure out some of the history on it to help you make the decision a bit better.
Also, we love to see pictures! And congrats on the new gun!
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06-20-2015, 06:22 PM
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Take Your time deciding. Alter it from original and there is no going back. You can get it rebluded next year or the year after. Rebluing seldom raises value and only rarely raises it as much as the reblue costs. Also, if you do reblue be careful to get an old fashioned blue. Just about all new guns get a substitute "bluing" with a flat black some what paint like appearance. If I saw that on a 1917 I'd assume it was done to cover up pits that were too deep to be polished off. Other wise I can't give an opinion with out seeing pictures.
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06-20-2015, 06:50 PM
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Gently clean it up as best you can, but forget about a re-finish. Just enjoy it for what it is, a wonderful piece of history. Oh, and don't forget to post some pics so we can all enjoy your new acquisition!
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06-20-2015, 07:45 PM
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I'm working on trying to put pictures but my computer is down so I'm trying to figure out how to do it on Android ...
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06-20-2015, 08:10 PM
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Last edited by davefromhere; 06-20-2015 at 08:15 PM.
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06-20-2015, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davefromhere
I'm working on trying to put pictures but my computer is down so I'm trying to figure out how to do it on Android ...
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Get the Tapatalk app for your android. It makes this forum so much easier on the phone
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06-20-2015, 08:23 PM
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The standard advice on this forum (and good advice it is):
If you want one with better finish, sell the rough one and take the proceeds, plus what you would have paid for a reblue (including shipping both ways) and buy one in higher condition.
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06-20-2015, 08:57 PM
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Jack it would be a good advice in the States but, here in Canada M1917's are a little harder to find especially at the price I paid for it. I guess I'll have to figure out what to do with it. I'm not rich enough to be a collector so all my guns get range time.
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06-20-2015, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davefromhere
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06-20-2015, 10:03 PM
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That's not a bad looking gun. Not perfect, but not bad. I would leave it as is and shoot it all the time. Have fun!
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06-20-2015, 10:16 PM
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How would you like somebody to give you one of them spiky hair cuts, droopy pants, shoe with no socks, and a baseball cap turned sideways?
Have a little respect for that old timer.
I think it looks purty durned good for it's age.
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06-21-2015, 01:55 AM
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You are looking at it way to critically Dave! She's just shy of a century old. What else do you or any one you know own that is that old and better preserved? The most skillfully done reblue possible would cut its value $300 to $400. If its condition was as new looking as you apparently want then firing it would be questionable. Be happy & proud of her at the range.
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06-21-2015, 06:09 AM
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I'm in the same position with a recently acquired Model 1917 although, as you can see, the finish on mine is not as good as yours. I too am in Canada so I understand that the option of selling it and buying a better one isn't quite that simple.
I thought about refinishing mine but have fallen into the "leave it alone and enjoy it for what it is" school of thought for the moment. As someone else said, you can always change you mind and have it done in the future but you can't go back.
When I look at the wear on mine I see well earned patina and 97+ years of history.
I'd say relax and enjoy your new gun.
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06-21-2015, 07:03 AM
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At the one level , it's your property , and you may do as you wish. But that said :
That is actually a fairly decent looking gun. You say you want a shooting gun , not a pure collectable . That's exactly what you alredy have. If it were 98% condition , neither of us could have afforded it , or dared to shoot it if we somehow could.
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06-21-2015, 07:09 AM
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After thinking about it, I think I'll leave it alone and enjoy it the way it is. My 586 looks brand new, because it is. The 1917 is almost a 100 years old I should give it a break. Thanks guys for the advice.
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06-21-2015, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davefromhere
After thinking about it, I think I'll leave it alone and enjoy it the way it is. My 586 looks brand new, because it is. The 1917 is almost a 100 years old I should give it a break. Thanks guys for the advice.
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JMHO, but I think you have made the right decision for the moment at least... you can certainly get hours of shooting enjoyment out of it exactly as it is, and if you discover you want to change anything later, as you become more closely familiar with it, then by all means, go ahead... the sky is the limit! I'm a big one for swapping out grips to suit myself, but that is a very easily reversible change.
Froggie
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06-21-2015, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davefromhere
After thinking about it, I think I'll leave it alone and enjoy it the way it is. My 586 looks brand new, because it is. The 1917 is almost a 100 years old I should give it a break. Thanks guys for the advice.
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Absolutely. Enjoy it as it is for what it is.
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06-21-2015, 10:35 AM
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Whew!!
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06-21-2015, 12:16 PM
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It's just that I thought it would be nice to invest in it considering I've only paid 300$ Canadian (240 us ) for it.
Last edited by davefromhere; 06-21-2015 at 12:52 PM.
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06-21-2015, 02:20 PM
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That's all? That's a great price for that gun, around where I am
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06-21-2015, 03:37 PM
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Well you can take that $300 gun, pay $300+ to have it re-blued and have $400 gun that's too pretty to shoot.
I have this one. It served with US forces in WWI. Loaned to the UK during WWII. It was then sold out of UK stores to the commercial market and made it back to the US.
The scrapes an scuffs were earned honorably and I'm not going to wipe them out.
It had repro grips on it so I put a little Wyoming flavor to it, and put it to work.
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Last edited by Iggy; 07-27-2015 at 02:26 PM.
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06-21-2015, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iggy
Well you can take that $300 gun, pay $300+ to have it re-blued and have $400 gun that's too pretty to shoot.
I have this one. It's been in service in the UK, sold out of stores to the commercial market and made it back to the US.
The scrapes an scuffs were earned honorably and I'm not going to wipe them out.
It had repro grips on it so I put a little Wyoming flavor to it, and put it to work.
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Iggy you are absolutely right. It would not be a good investment but, if I was into guns for the money I wouldn't be into guns ! Fortunately I'm also lazy so I'm not gonna bother to bring it to a gunsmith, its too complicated to move a gun around in Canada to bring it to a licensed gunsmith.
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06-21-2015, 04:24 PM
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OK off to the flower shop to bring some to the wife, because I have yet to tell her that I bought another gun. As they say; it's easier to ask for forgiveness than for permission !!!
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06-21-2015, 04:29 PM
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These questions or dilemmas are really very simple. You either have a collectible gun or a shooter.
If it's a collectible, then a refinish will destroy any collectible value or certainly won't add any.
If it's a shooter, then why does it need to be pristine?
If it's a shooter that you are embarrassed to show folks because it has such a rough finish, then you merely have to decide if that embarrassment is worth $300-$400 to correct. If it is, then do it. If it is not, don't bother.
Problem solved.
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06-21-2015, 06:39 PM
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I think you got a great deal as I understand the difficulty obtaining stuff in Canada. Clean it up and shoot it by all means. I got bit by the 1917 bug after shooting a buddy of mine's cut down 4" model, I never thought shooting a 45 acp could be so much fun...shows what I know. I kept my eyes open and saw some very exceptional pistols at outrageous prices, saw some fairly decent pistols at still rather high prices and then started finding out the advantages of the Brazilian contract pistols, not that it has anything to do with collectable value just plain shootability. As luck would have it after talking with a number of friends down at the rifle club I stumbled on a very nicely refinished Brazilian model for $350, mechanically very tight with a decent bore, I stuck some target stocks on it and immediately started shooting it better than any other heavy caliber handgun I have ever owned.
I hope you enjoy yours as much as I am enjoying this one, especially that long throw hbh, I shoot mine more single action than double.
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06-21-2015, 07:14 PM
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Kinman, nice to hear you got yourself a nice shooter. Getting guns in Canada is not that hard, getting nice old ones like you have in the States is hard. I have bunch of inexpensive Norincos that I enjoy shooting. But a 100 year old Smith will run circles around Chinese guns (except maybe for my Chinese m-14). You can really see and feel the difference.
So after listening to what everyone says I will give the M1917 a coat of renaissance wax and enjoy it at the range .
Thanks guys
PS I'll give a range report as soon as I can. I'll have to finish the home renos and stuff first.
Last edited by davefromhere; 06-21-2015 at 07:53 PM.
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06-21-2015, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSR III
If it's a collectible, then a refinish will destroy any collectible value or certainly won't add any.
If it's a shooter, then why does it need to be pristine?
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Great analysis. Really makes most reblue decisions pretty easy.
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07-08-2015, 07:04 PM
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Well I was all wrong about my M1917. It's actually a m1937 Brazilian contract. The information contained in the online description did not mention it. They did not described as such. My research on the serial number lead me to believe it was from 1919. Unfortunately, the Brazilian crest on the side plate only confirmed that the description was wrong. Bummer.
With this new information in mind and the fact that the finish is nowhere as good as the auctioneer's pictures, I'm back at square one ; what should I do ?
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07-08-2015, 07:05 PM
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Sorry about the poor photo skills
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07-08-2015, 07:09 PM
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Looks pretty good for a Brazilian, most of them are in pretty rough shape.
Shoot it and love it as is, if you want a pretty shiny one just buy one that is already that way and sell this one. Refinishing this gun will not only cost you money, but reduce the value of the gun. The only reason to re-finish such a gun is if you plan on keeping it forever and just need it to look a certain way.
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07-08-2015, 07:16 PM
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Dave, clean it and shoot it!!
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07-08-2015, 07:18 PM
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I forgot to say. This gun has the smoothest nicest best trigger I've ever tried. Especially compared to my 1960 model 10 and my 2014 586. Is it something that has to do with that model or is it just so worn out that it feels smooth ?
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07-08-2015, 07:35 PM
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There's always the potential of trigger work on any old gun, but the condition yours is in I would wager it's just the standard quality of the era + shooting it a bunch.
Honestly, clean it, shoot it, appreciate it for what it is. New looking shiny guns have their place, but a re-finished gun is never quite right. A gun in that condition is actually perfect when you think about where it's been, it shows that.
It should prove to be a good shooter, and that's mostly what it is now. A cool historical shooter.
If you find you really love it (and you will, 1917s are absolutely grand) just save up some cash to buy a high condition US Property one to go along side it. I've ended up with a pile of 1917s and I love every one of them.
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07-08-2015, 08:31 PM
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I'm going to the range on Saturday. So expect a full range report on Sunday evening ( I'm going to the zoo with the kids in the morning ).
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07-08-2015, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SixgunStrumpet
Looks pretty good for a Brazilian, most of them are in pretty rough shape.
Shoot it and love it as is, if you want a pretty shiny one just buy one that is already that way and sell this one. Refinishing this gun will not only cost you money, but reduce the value of the gun. The only reason to re-finish such a gun is if you plan on keeping it forever and just need it to look a certain way.
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i think this is the best advice about refinishing. If you going to keep it and want it to look a certain way, refinish it, value be damned. I also believe, that as these old guns become harder to find, a well done refinish will not decrease the value of a given, less rare piece.
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07-08-2015, 10:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raljr1
I also believe, that as these old guns become harder to find, a well done refinish will not decrease the value of a given, less rare piece.
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I don't entirely disagree, but I do think it's important to point out that even if it doesnt devalue the gun, it still doesn't increase the value as much as you paid to refinish it.
I think anyone thinking about refinishing these days should take a serious look at total cost of ownership. It's not that much more in most cases to buy a really nice (though probably not perfect) example of the gun in question. Then you have all the fun of owning both a pretty one and one you have no qualms about shooting the heck out of.
And believe me when I say, 1917s are guns that *need* the heck shot out of them. Something about those old pre-war N frames just puts a smile on everyone's face when they shoot them.
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07-09-2015, 12:53 AM
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I've a Brazilian that I purchased from a member of this forum. Pitting has been reblued over but tight and a lot of fun to shoot. Have a spare barrel for a 1917 so if anything happens to the Brazilian I'm good to go. No right now could I afford a decent 1917 so this will have to do. Heck it's an "N" frame and 45 acp. Frank
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07-12-2015, 08:41 PM
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Thanks all
Last edited by davefromhere; 07-12-2015 at 08:53 PM.
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07-12-2015, 08:50 PM
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Now I know I promised a range report for today but I haven't had time to file it besides, my shooting was horrible yesterday. At first I thought it was the 1917 but, all my revolvers were shooting crookedly at 25 yards. So I switched to my m14 and got. 1 .5 inches at 100 yards. Guess my wheel guns went on strike !!!
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07-15-2015, 11:55 PM
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Dave, I've been following your saga, and my 2 cents (US) is that you keep it as is and shoot it without fear of ruining an expensive reblue. For a couple of thousand Dave Turnbull could make it look better than new, but then you would be afraid to take it out to the range, as it might get scratched up! I'll bet if you look inside, the reason that it is as smooth as you say is because they finished the parts in those days as slick as the outer finish. Probably looks like new inside, and after all, that's where the action takes place. I have a 44 special made in the twenties that is essentially the same gun as yours, but in a different caliber. Still shoots very well, and has some cosmetic issues as well. Have had it now since about 1974, and have gotten used to the less than perfect finish. Enjoy!
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07-17-2015, 07:06 PM
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Well, Less you are right I'll leave the finish as it is but, I'll change the grips since I don't find them comfortable. Don't worry I'll keep the originals in the safe.
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07-17-2015, 07:55 PM
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I picked up a pretty nice Brazilian 1937 last year for $400. Cleaned it up really good. . .it needed it. Put a little cold blue on the barrel just to bring the color back. It's actually a pretty nice gun and is in the serial number range that may have been carried during WWII. It's too hard to find the WWI guns. . .at least for me.
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07-17-2015, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DocB
I picked up a pretty nice Brazilian 1937 last year for $400. Cleaned it up really good. . .it needed it. Put a little cold blue on the barrel just to bring the color back. It's actually a pretty nice gun and is in the serial number range that may have been carried during WWII. It's too hard to find the WWI guns. . .at least for me.
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If your revolver has the flat top frame and a square rear sight notch, it was produced for the Brazilians in the the late 1930s.
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07-26-2015, 02:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davefromhere
Well I was all wrong about my M1917. It's actually a m1937 Brazilian contract. The information contained in the online description did not mention it. They did not described as such. My research on the serial number lead me to believe it was from 1919. Unfortunately, the Brazilian crest on the side plate only confirmed that the description was wrong. Bummer.
With this new information in mind and the fact that the finish is nowhere as good as the auctioneer's pictures, I'm back at square one ; what should I do ?
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Even as a 1937 vintage revolver it is going to have some collector value since it's all original. Enjoy it as it is. As an original piece if you don't like it there will always be someone around who would buy it. I have a Brazilian 1937 that was very heavily customized. The pictures I'm showing may seem to contradict my words, but that was the way the gun was when I bought it. I just hope it was a restoration of a previously unserviceable gun.
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07-27-2015, 06:43 PM
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US Veteran
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Join Date: Jan 2005
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If it were mine:
1. Remove the stocks
2. Couple of weeks in a bucket of Ed's Red
3. Brush & bronze wool as required to remove rust and residue
4. Lube & oil , gently
5. Replace the stocks
6. Bang, bang, bang bang bang bang until ammo is gone.
7. Clean
repeat 6 & 7
rayb
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"cumplo pero no obedezco"
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07-29-2015, 08:55 PM
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I like 6 especially.
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07-29-2015, 09:11 PM
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SWCA Member
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Read post 46. After following the advice, read and follow again...
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James Redfield
LM #497
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07-30-2015, 12:17 AM
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US Veteran Absent Comrade
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davefromhere
Well I was all wrong about my M1917. It's actually a m1937 Brazilian contract. The information contained in the online description did not mention it. They did not described as such. My research on the serial number lead me to believe it was from 1919. Unfortunately, the Brazilian crest on the side plate only confirmed that the description was wrong. Bummer.
With this new information in mind and the fact that the finish is nowhere as good as the auctioneer's pictures, I'm back at square one ; what should I do ?
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Keep that thing as is and shoot that sucker.
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07-30-2015, 12:18 AM
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US Veteran Absent Comrade
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
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Liked 6,743 Times in 2,526 Posts
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keep that thing as is and shoot that sucker.
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