The 2" Barreled Kit Guns have always been an anomaly to me. They don't make a lot of sense but, I find myself drawn to them whenever I see one...

This is SN 9757 - I had her out for a couple of photos the other day...







The box does not number to the gun, but I think it is correct (rather than the red box) for the late 1954/early 1955 gun...

Thanks for letting me share,

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Richard
Engraved S&W fan

Quote:

What Were They Thinkin'???

That you can hit a rabbit in the head at 15yds if sighted for the .22 ammo you have?

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Science plus Art

Back in the Seventies and Eighties, I competed in IPSC at the National level. That was in the days of a 180,000 power factor requirement (bullet weight times velocity) with NO compensators allowed (before the gamesmen took over). I was shooting three times a week (averaged 15,000 rounds per year of full house .45 ACP for five years). Some of the pros were shooting as much as 50,000 rounds per year. However, I was doing my own bullet casting, reloading, and all out of my own pocket while trying to raise a young family (:>)). I was also supplying ammo for my two young sons, who were also competing.

At any rate, I was in shooting shape. I was visiting a gun club in a nearby town when the discussion of the accuracy possibilities from a .45 ACP came up with a bunch of trapshooters. I made a bit of a rash statement, telling a gentleman that I could hit a mansize silhouette in the kill zone of an IPSC target at 100 yards five out of seven times on demand (after he had stated that his understanding was that a shooter couldn't hit a barn from the inside with a 1911 .45 ACP.

The guy took my "bet". A couple of days later we adjourned to my local club. We had a steel splash plate at 100 yards the exact dimensions of an IPSC silhouette target. I hit the prone position, with my IPSC 1911 (fixed high visibility iron sights) and proceeded to put eight shots out of eight in the kill zone. The feller's eyes were as big as dinner plates!

I had told him that, in fact, I could put all shots but one or two out of a magazine or cylinder from any pistol he cared to bring (not a particularly wise boast, but I did say it).

He brought out a couple of revolvers, a Model 59 Smith, and, he REALLY tried to "hurt" me - a Chief's Special snub nose!

Well, I HAD to give it a try. I did get him to allow me a couple of sighting shots so I could see how far to hold over with these strange handguns. I put four out of five from the snub nose on the target. That's right, four out of five from a fixed sight .38 Special snub nose. He about fell down with surprise...

The only piece I was not able to "do the trick" with was the Model 59 Smith. I finally put it on the bench, and it wouldn't keep all of the rounds on a twenty five yard pistol target PAPER off a rest! On the way home, he stopped at his favorite gun shop and traded the 59 off...

This is NOT to brag but merely to show that if you do your part, a good snubby will surprise the dickens out of you. I have had access to a Ransom Rest for many years. Most of you would be flatly flabbergasted how well a snubby can shoot. They ARE quite difficult to shoot do to their lack of weight and short sight radius. However, they CAN be shot well.

I have a 60-4 (3" dbl. underlugged barrel with target sights) and I kept records over a period of time. I averaged 96+ on the timed fire 25 yard target at 25 yards with that handgun. Yeah, it surprised me too.

Many here have read where that became my preferred side gun when bird hunting in the hills. I took many a cottontail, snowshoe rabbit, and wounded and/or sitting grouse with that wonderful little handgun. A full charge wadcutter and that gun makes a FINE edible small game gun if you stay in practice with it.

Make no mistake, I prefer a minimum of a 4" barrel for a field pistol, but the 60-4 was only made in a 3" barrel so I settled for that. Imagine my surprise when I learned I can actually shoot it better than I can my Model 631. The double underlugged barrel just flat holds better...

FWIW
Dale53

Bout sums it up......nothing to see here; lets move along..........

well unless your in Kentucky and can do the windage thing with each different brand and batch of .22s you buy.

I think the Kit Gun snubbies are neat little guns. I've had no trouble sighting them in off sand bags. But I have never been
able to shoot one good enough to suit me. I have a couple 4"
34s and have no trouble shooting them. The Kit snubby will
do it's part, some people can't shoot them. I have 19 snubby
that I have no problem with...must be the lite weight.

I don't know what they were thinking, but I love all of mine! Including the one I recently bought for my wife.

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

I wish I had a Stainless snubbie. I have a Model 63, 4" bbl. and I love it. It is one of my favorite revolvers. In fact when I sold many of my revolvers, it is the one I will always keep.

This comment will apply to the Jennings thread as well.

Back in the '70s, one of my Marine Corps buddies came by to visit. I lived out in the country and there was a 100 yard range on the 5 acres I was renting.

We shot a few of my guns and he picked up a little Jennings J22 I was using for a LEO back-up piece (I was po'). We had set a gallon milk jug out at 100 yards & Butch proceeded to hit that jug 4 time out of 5!!! Offhand, standing on his hind legs, using a two handed hold!

Of course, he used to shoot on our Navy/Marine Corps ROTC pistol team. If I hadn't of been there watching, I wouldn't have believed it either.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

I've only owned one 2" 34, I think they are really neat little guns. Mine shot about 4" high at 20 yards even with the rear sight bottomed out. I eventually traded it partly because of that but also because it was so pretty and pristine (with box and papers) that I was reluctant to stick it in my pocket and carry it.

Like Dale53, I have one of the .38 Special model 60-4s and find I can shoot it very accurately. I like the increased power factor available compared to .22 LR as well and it has become my favorite little knockabout gun. Also have and enjoy (heresy) a SS Charter Arms Pathfinder .22 LR. I like the 3" barrel and wish S&W had made M-34s in that barrel length. I think it's the ideal length for such a gun - noticably better sighting radius than a 2" but a lot handier and more "pocketable" than a 4". The 4" kit guns shoot great but I always found it just a little too much barrel to be really handy. Seems to me like they demand holster carry. JMO.

I also had a LNIB example of the "shark fin" adjustable sight model 60s that Ashland had done. Didn't have it long - was offered about a $200 profit on it and the $$ signs got to me.

The old, "bought for my wife" story, nice.

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Baby Chief Admirer
SWCA 2870

Dale53, I admire your shooting. Very similar, back when I was also shooting a 45 in IPSC with a 180 power factor, a group of us used to meet at a small private range every Tues. evening in the summer months and practice. One evening a friend brings a box of black balloons that a member of his department at work had dropped on him for his 40th birthday, they were all about 8" to 10". He tacked several of them up at the 100 yard target frame, and was going to shoot with a rifle. I asked if I could try with my handgun, my Springfield comp gun I had built up myself. I shot 1 and it broke, and he bet me I couldn't do it again. I broke 3 of the next 5, and is subsequent weeks did it again several times. It can be done! You just need to be in your best shooting form. I doubt if I could get 1 out of 10 currently.

You mention the 60-4 being a perfect little 38, I agree (I wish I had one), but I do have the 36-6 which is the same gun in blue (actually a matte finish black). A great little gun but the finish is a tad easy to mar, so I don't shoot it much as they only made 615 of them. Someday I'll find a 60-4 I can afford.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

H Richard;
Good shooting, "Right Back At You" (:>))! Your mention of the 36-6 reminds me when they were introduced. I was at the Indianapolis 500 Gun show and a dealer there had them on display.

I had, a few months before read a great article in a Gun Digest of a fellow who had a custom "J" frame made up with target sights in .38 Special. I was immediately taken with the utility value of such a gun but the cost was daunting. I was still mulling around the idea when the trip to Indianapolis introduced me to the 36-6 (at a VERY good price, too). However, the 3" barrel put me off and I walked away.

I thought about that gun all the way home and wished that I had bought it. I made up my mind to pick it up the next trip to that gun show. Well, I got there with money in hand and learned that it was a limited edition and all of them were gone... The dealer showed me the 60-4 for a price at about wholesale. I almost broke my arm getting my money out of my pocket!

I was still a bit miffed that the gun had been made with a 3" barrel instead of my preferred 4". It was cold, so I took it to my home range's indoor range, sighted it in, and shot in the high ninties on the timed fire target. The guy next to me was a fellow club member. He looked at the target and asked me what in the dickens I was shooting? When he saw the 60-4 his eyes bulged! That double underlugged barrel makes that little piece a bit nose heavy and REALLY helps the holding.

Green Frog had been drooling over my copy every time he came up from Virginia to visit. I put him onto a LNIB 60-4 and he has been having fun like me (:>)).

H, don't hold back shooting that fine little 36-6. You might as well get the good out of it rather than keeping it pristine for some Philistine after you're gone. Shoot the little feller, that's what it was made for!

I have gone to a solid cast wadcutter of either the dbl ended H&G #251 or the button nosed H&G #50BB using from 3.2-3.5 grs. of Bullseye. The heavier load with the dbl. ended mimics Ed Harris' "Full Charge Wadcutter" for excellent terminal effect for edible small game as well as sometimes encountered feral dogs (which in a pack can be QUITE dangerous).

FWIW
Dale53

They even took another step and put on a W/O rear and RR front.
I've posted this one before and it letters with the W/O and RR. It's a -1 shipped in 1976.

The boxes in those years varied, S&W bought their packaging from different sources, so in the same year you could have a red box or a blue box(some of the trim varied there also)
This isn't new info, I think that Ray Brazille told me and he was a very knowledgeable collector/trader.

very nice I have a boxed one I need to shoot

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SWCA#2208
KK4EMO

I had a similar desire for a Kit Gun longer than 2" but shorter than 4" and always thought the M43 Airweight with 3 1/2" barrel might be just right.
But the 43 is a J frame , also a little light for me to shoot as well as my M34 I frame. So when I ran across a 3 1/2" Airweight barrel, I grabbed it.

Now it's in my M34 I frame. Fortunately none of these M43 barrels are stamped Airweight.

Added a target trigger and a few retro parts replacements like the pre war relieved, 'double pinch' thumb-piece in place of the flat latch, and a pre war 'barrel' style extractor rod/knob (required the single step notch I milled under barrel) replacing the straight rod. Both ergonomic improvements.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

What a cool little gun..thank you for posting pics..I really appreciate a nice 22 there just a good time..looks like something I might pick up in the future.

I have a 22/32 kit gun 2" as shown in this thread # 27399.It is in excellent condition but I don't have the box or papers etc. I have owned it probably 40 years. I originally traded a 3 1/2 inch for the 2"

Can anyone tell me anything about it? What year it was made and what it's value is would be nice to know.

They were thinking these little revolvers are capable of shooting as well as any of their big brothers. And they were right. We have an AR 500 IDPA target at 125 yd from the firing line.
I was conducting an Advanced Concealed Carry class last Sat. when a student complained he needed a new gun, as he was having trouble keeping his shots in a 3/4 inch dot at four yards.
He had a new looking LCR in .38 spec. I took it from his hand and unceremoniously hit that target right in the chest. Handing it back, I said "there is nothing wrong with your gun".
I consider shooting my S&Ws at it to be, almost, on par with cheating. Even the 2 inchers.

I have a mint S&W 34-1 from the late 70s, I'm the 2nd owner.

As a surveyor in Alaska I carried one for years and once sighted in, shot many a Spruce Grouse with it, a really pretty Pine Martin, and mice and Pine Squirrels outside and inside some of the old wood floored bush cabins I stayed in. They shoot amazingly well - just have to hold steady.

Smith did make a 3" kit gun, the model 650. It comes with a round stock, a bull barrel and fixed rear sights. Stainless and mfg'd in 22 mag from 1983 to 1988. If you are very lucky you may find one with the factory matched LR cylinder. I own a complete kit gun collection housing an example of every cataloged 22lr/22mag mfg'd from 1953 thru 1999.
Of course I am bios but I believe the S&W kit gun to be the most perfect revolver ever designed. I am kind of partial to the early "I" frame examples as is the snub 2" above.

We can't say when your Model of 1953 "New I Frame" was made but probably in the 6 months prior to when it was likely shipped in the last quarter of 1957 according to my database of serial #s and their ship dates.

It has the 3 screw side plate.

In like condition to the thread author's, they sell in the $6-800 range if a rd butt, depending on location in the country.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

The Smith Kit guns are a favorite of mine as well. A complete set is a fabulous accumulation! I've tried to get a representative sample of just the .22 LRs in blue from the 1st, the M frame, I frame, New I frame to the J frame, the last.

The 1st I frame, the .22/32 Heavy Frame Target (Roper stocks):


Heavy Frame Targets were often shortened pre empting the 1st factory Kit Gun:


Pre war 1st Kit Gun, the 1935:



Starting Top Left:

Model of 1953 New I frame .22/32 Kit Gun , 4 screw 4" (Pre-Model 34),
Model 34 New I frame .22/32 Kit Gun, 3 screw, 4",
Model 34-1 J frame .22/32 Kit Gun, 2",
Model 34-2 J frame .22/32 Kit Gun, 4 1/8" barrel (1988).

Top Right:

Lady Smith 3rd Model, 'M' frame, .22 S&W Long, 7 shot, 3"

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Jim
S&WCA #819

What do you do with a well Airweight?

My son’s Model of 1955 .22/32 Kit Gun Airweight J frame (pre Model 43) with a Model 63 stainless 3” shrouded barrel and bead blasted it.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

My 2" Kit Gun is a 38 Special. To me, way more useful than a fixed sight version. I carry it around the place often and it's taken a variety of small game.

Yes, but in this case it is true, and it stemmed from self defense! She liked my older 2" Kit Gun (not model-marked) so much that she was starting to claim it for herself. So I sought - and found - a 2" Model 34 for her, thus freeing up my own ownership of the old Kit Gun! Who says husbands can't be shrewd once in a while?

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

Jim (Hondo44)
Your collection so shames me, I want to stop writing about my meager collection. Nice bunch of .22 revolvers! And what a great collecting goal - all representatives of the evolution in small frame rimfire Smith & Wessons. So cool!

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

I have a model 60 that I will be trading for a newer, semi-auto gun very soon. It's in great shape (photos available) with the original grips - no box (that's a sad story!). Let me know if you're interested - I have one other interested snubby fan!
Thanks,
Bruce

The one smith I owned that would not shoot well ( probably a barrel/ forcing cone issue in retrospect) was a 2" 34. It would shoot only fair for the first 30
Rounds or so then start keyhole at seven yards!
I still have a fondness for these and when I can find a shooter grade gun at a shooter grade price ( good luck right!) I will try again.
There is something about the profile of the gun with that shark fin front sight that just gets me.

I wonder. I have 2-inch 1953 .22/.32 Kit Gun 94XX, which letters as having shipped January 24, 1955. It came to me from David Carroll in early 1989 in a matching RED box. I presume the box is original to the gun, and not "conformed." (Such "creations" were not so common 26 years ago.) What is the number on the box shown?

I suppose the last red boxes could have been ending in the few hundred guns between the pictured revolver and mine, and I assume the transition was not necessarily at one last gun in the line of all previous guns in a red box, followed by all of the future production in a blue "ray" box.

Nice 22's !

I know one "Kit gun" that didnt have target sites ....

In nickel perhaps?

Rugers tank of a short barreled SP101 did not have sights but Alan Harton took care of that for me. He used S&W J frame sights and it sure made it easier to hit what I was aiming at versus pointing at.

I have looked for a snub K frame for a while. No luck. I just think that a 2" Model 15 LOOKS SO COOL! Not that it matters. I have read here how they are accurate for a short barrel. I may find out myself someday! Bob

Hondo,

Just to say: Salute!
That's a real gem. Thanks for showing that one off.
Jim

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Halfway and one more step

bananaman, the 15's are really accurate snubs. Here's my 15-2 after 10 rounds @ 50 ft. double action, two hand hold.

Sweeeet.... that just looks right.......I ave 2 4" 34 square and round butt....but as Kit guns both have taken a backseat to my 60-10 micro-686!

[QUOTE=Dale53;138724816]<snip>
This is NOT to brag but merely to show that if you do your part, a good snubby will surprise the dickens out of you. I have had access to a Ransom Rest for many years. Most of you would be flatly flabbergasted how well a snubby can shoot. They ARE quite difficult to shoot do to their lack of weight and short sight radius. However, they CAN be shot well.

<snip>

Absolutely true! And I like adjustable rear sights and a ramp front sight on mine, for the better sight picture.

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Ed