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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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Old 10-12-2015, 10:57 PM
policerevolvercollector policerevolvercollector is offline
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Default Is refinishing this one possible?

Here is my "Arkansas" gun,a 1950 .38-44 HD from the Arkansas State Police:





As you can see,if your retinas haven't been damaged by the sight of it, it has been nickled in a fashion that resembles a trailer hitch with a golden finish applied to the hammer & trigger.

Well.....when I got it, it had faux stags by Jay Scott on it!

My question is ...can it be refinished back to its' original blue? Can nickle be removed? How costly is it?

Last edited by policerevolvercollector; 10-12-2015 at 11:25 PM.
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Old 10-12-2015, 11:08 PM
bamabiker bamabiker is offline
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I believe you'd be looking at more than the gun is worth.
If it was mine I'd just figure out a way to get rid of the gold and then enjoy it as a shooter.
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Old 10-12-2015, 11:10 PM
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hard chrome?
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Old 10-12-2015, 11:22 PM
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Yes, nickel can be removed---chemically or electrictly. There are clearly different strokes for different folks, but I do not regard it as costly. I suggest you contact Fords for an estimate, and then decide for yourself. There are certainly others in the same business, but Fords presents the best combination of quality and cost I know of.

Ralph Tremaine
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Old 10-12-2015, 11:45 PM
2152hq 2152hq is offline
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Removing the existing plating is a standard operation for any electro-plating firm..
Once that is done, the base metal will need to be (re)polished back to the factory look, including recutting or roll die marking the lettering and logo.
This polishing and re-marking isn't something the average electro-plating shop can usually do up to the demands of the gun restoration trade. The current condition shows what is the usual end result.

Then your choice of a blue or plated finish is applied to complete the metal work along with a careful re-assembly.
The hammer and trigger would be de-plated, correctly polished and re-case color hardened of course.

Wether all the steps above are done by separate shops/'smiths or you can find one that can supply in-house work for all or perhaps a couple while outsourcing another depends on on price, quality, turnaround, ect.

Some of the best known names are not necessarily doing all the 'work' in house and instead farm out much of the specialty stuff. Others do much of it and only out-source occasional odd jobs that they're not set up for (case-coloring usually, though some do a faux case color if you're satisfied with that).

Ask questions, ask for pictures of completed work. If the finished work doesn't appear up to your expectations of a true restoration,,then it's just a refinish,,no matter how pretty, how shiny it is.

A restoration is a return to factory spec condition. If that's what you want and are paying for, then that's what you should expect.

Worth it?,,Probably not in strict dollar investment vs resale value
on a common firearm.
But there are exceptions,,and then there is the reason to do such things,,just because we want to!
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Old 10-13-2015, 12:12 AM
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Were it not for the ASP connection, it would probably be beneficial from a cost and time effectiveness perspective to go out and find another HD in a condition more suitable to you.
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Old 10-13-2015, 08:38 AM
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Soak it for a few weeks in Hoppe's #9 gun cleaning solvent. Everyone says it removes nickel...so find out.

I still have never seen one of these in Arkansas.
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Old 10-13-2015, 09:23 AM
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I would leave it be. Everybody knows shiny guns hit harder.
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Old 10-13-2015, 09:35 AM
2ndAmendmentNut 2ndAmendmentNut is offline
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Another vote for Ford's. I had a Model 28 with a hammer that suffered from "push off" and the finish was pretty much gone. I got it back with a perfect action, master blue finish, and re case colored hammer and trigger. Not cheap but worth it to me.
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Old 10-13-2015, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by 2ndAmendmentNut View Post
Another vote for Ford's. I had a Model 28 with a hammer that suffered from "push off" and the finish was pretty much gone. I got it back with a perfect action, master blue finish, and re case colored hammer and trigger. Not cheap but worth it to me.
I'd like to see before & after pics of that one!
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Old 10-13-2015, 09:44 AM
2ndAmendmentNut 2ndAmendmentNut is offline
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I'd like to see before & after pics of that one!

Didn't think of before pictures, but I'll get you some after ones.
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Old 10-13-2015, 09:58 AM
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A few years ago, I needed an old Colt refinished by a Pro. I checked with Fords and found the price very high and the turn around time exceedingly long. I understand Ford comes highly recommended and was the reason I checked with them first.

I also heard a lot of good things about this refinisher: Hard Chrome Plating & Electroless Nickel Plating, Armalloy & Gun Bluing by Mahovsky's Metalife

His price was about 1/2 and his turn around time was only a few weeks. He did a find job on my old revolver.

I think it always helps to have several possible sources for comparison.
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Old 10-13-2015, 10:02 AM
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I wouldn't,the edges are already soft and the sideplate has a valley from the last go around.It would still have that under the new finish unless you spend whatever it takes to correct that.Id just enjoy it for what it is or trade it.
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Old 10-13-2015, 11:11 AM
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"arjay" makes a couple of points worth talking about: "The edges are already soft"-----"the sideplate has a valley". Translation: This gun has already been prepared (abused) by a butcher with a powered wheel. It was done that way because it's fast. Fast is cheap. The results are totally unacceptable.

Fords (and a few others) prepare guns for finishing BY HAND. The results are AMAZING!!

A totally fallacious apples to oranges comparison for the uninitiated: Turnbull's also prepares guns by hand (Never mind they no longer do S&W's.). Turnbull would charge thousands (around two of them---plus some) to do this gun. Fords charges hundreds. Turnbull's turns out a superior product (No surprise there!)----a TRUE RESTORATION. Fords turns out an excellent product----a REFINISHING. You can tell the difference by looking. It's a very small difference-----an AMAZINGLY small difference----considering the difference in cost. Bottom Line: You get what you pay for----except at Fords, you get a whole lot more than what you paid for---comparatively speaking. I don't know/understand how or why Fords charges so little---again, comparatively speaking.

One more bottom line: Refinish your gun if the results will make you happier than you are now. Do NOT refinish your gun if you expect to make it a financially profitable undertaking. As it sits, you have what----a $5-600 gun? (I have no idea.) Done right (by Fords), you're going to spend what----another $5-600? (Again, I have no idea.) At the finish line, you're going to have maybe an $800 gun.(??) Do the math.

Ralph Tremaine

A bit more for the uninitiated: The factory also prepared/polished this gun with a powered wheel---several of them. Each one was a formed wheel---formed to match the particular surface of the gun being prepared. They did it very quickly----amazingly quickly-----because the guy with the particular piece in his hand knew EXACTLY what he was doing. He knew EXACTLY what he was doing because he had been trained to do it----and wanted to keep his job. He (and his formed wheels) turned out results which are truly amazing. I don't know of anybody, anywhere who can duplicate those results with an "unformed" wheel.

A word of explanation----again for the uninitiated. I said you can tell the difference between Fords work and Turnbull's by looking. I'm not talking about "soft edges" and "valleys on sideplates". I'm talking about polish (before the bluing). A Turnbull RESTORATION will have the EXACT SAME polish as the factory put on the gun----any factory----any gun. Here we're talking about S&W's "bright blue" vs. Fords "master blue". Fords "master blue" (polish) is finer than S&W's----it's "brighter" than "bright blue"----and THAT's what you can see by looking. I reckon they could tone it down a bit if you asked them.

And finally, my cop-out clause: I don't KNOW what I'm talking about! I've had exactly two guns refinished in my life----one in the 60's, one in the 90's. Both were done by S&W. Both were dirt cheap------and FLAWLESS!! I have seen Turnbull's work (both at Turnbull's and "on the street"). I have seen Fords work ("on the street"). I have seen the before and after of Fords work. I have seen fugitives from junk yards transformed into truly exquisite firearms by both firms. Turnbull's does COMPLETE AND ACCURATE RESTORATIONS----no matter how long it takes nor how much it costs. Fords refinishes guns. If I were to have a gun refinished today, it would be done by Fords----because they do good work----AND because the factory doesn't do "my kind" of guns anymore----AND because I don't know of anyone as good or better.

Last edited by rct269; 10-13-2015 at 12:09 PM.
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Old 10-13-2015, 11:15 AM
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Talking Refinish vs. Restore

Refinish is different than to restore to "as new" condition. A restoration can cost up to or well over $1000+ while a good refinish can be done for $300+, as a ball park figure. Polishing (not buffing) is the key to a well done refinish and impacts the cost. I have had a number of old beat up guns refinished with S&W logos restored. Here are a couple of photos that show a 38/44 that was refinished by Fords in Crystal River, FL, it was in really bad condition with no collector value. Photos are not my best work.


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Old 10-13-2015, 11:47 AM
mikepriwer mikepriwer is offline
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Removing nickel is easy - just messy. Its exactly the opposite process of plating.
You need a battery, and a mild solution of something-or-other. You'll have to look
it up. Then connect the battery the opposite way from plating, and let it sit for some
period of time. Then clean up the gun.

Mike Priwer
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Old 10-14-2015, 10:27 PM
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I have a nickel model 10-6 with the same "Gold treatment"... not what I would call good looking and not sure why anyone would do that... but I got it cheap and it shoots great, at least when I do my part... it is my "Pimp gun"...
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Old 10-15-2015, 09:24 AM
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It's a shooter......

If'n you want to job the whole thing out,

I'd go with Bob Cogan's 'Brushed 400 Grit Polish',


FINISHES - Metal Finishes | APWCOGAN


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Old 10-15-2015, 06:49 PM
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I am only familiar with custom chrome refinishing in the automobile world. Some very good chrome plate shops can repair areas that are rusted and or pitted, without removing reveal lines or sculpted edges. Do the pistol refinishers also remove slight pitting in order to build up the surface of the metal without removing base metal? I haven't seen an example of a pistol in truly sad shape that was refinished to near stock appearance. I have a Brazilian model of 1917 that was nicely re-blued but in the process some roll marks, etc. were buffed off. Its a shooter and was purchased as such but I was just curious about what someone like Ford's is actually capable of other than refinishing a pistol that simply had the original bluing wore off.
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Old 10-15-2015, 07:54 PM
delta-419 delta-419 is offline
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Red face Lettering and Markings

The font size on early N frames is almost impossible to duplicate outside of roll die stamping. It is very small, I am told acid etching is an alternative to get the 2 and 3 line barrel address/patient date lines, but I have not seen one done. Fords has a new automatic computerized engraving machine that can duplicate the S&W logo from a good photo of one and that technique was used on one of my guns. Don't know how it really works but I like the end result. They can engrave lettering, but not the really small stuff. Nothing can really beat a roll die.
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Old 10-15-2015, 08:17 PM
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Find a pimp to sell it to.
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Old 10-15-2015, 08:18 PM
rct269 rct269 is offline
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Fords is capable of work which approaches a "full restoration"-----APPROACHES!

A "full restoration" polishes metal to the EXACT SAME FINISH as the factory. It/they achieve the final finish (blue/nickle) in the EXACT SAME way it was done originally. (An aside: I suspect (but do not know) Turnbull no longer does S&W's because they can no longer obtain the materials necessary to duplicate the (early) bluing process.)

None of us alive today have the first clue what a hundred year old S&W looked like when it was new-----a blued S&W. That's simply because the finish changes with the passage of time---and the particular environment (mostly the environment). A case in point: I have four NM #3's. One of them is (dark) blue---as I suspect is very close to the original color. Another is black----make that BLACK. The other two are blue, but nowhere near as dark as the first one mentioned. I will not attempt to accurately explain the reasons. I will pass along what I was told by the Boss Bluing Man at Turnbull's: "Bluing is a living thing. It reacts to its environment." The context was an explanation as to why they could not/would not attempt to blue a cylinder for me---to match the rest of the gun. That went along these lines: We can do that cylinder for you, and it will look exactly as it did when it was new. It will not look exactly as the rest of gun looks now. We could do the cylinder 50 times---varying the several parameters each time, and we MIGHT get a match three times out of fifty. Then he asked me how I liked those odds. Then the conversation was over.

Fords will give you a blue finish that will knock your socks off!! Most of you will instantly realize it doesn't look like a S&W finish. (It's probably closer to the high end Colt finish---both as respects polish and color.) Those of you who will not instantly recognize that will do so just as soon as you set it down alongside a S&W. Fords product will have a higher polish and a darker color.

Now, what can they do besides prepare and blue guns? They can do whatever needs to be done----and what you're willing to pay for. Do the roll marks/other stampings need fixing? No problem-----they'll be fixed. How 'bout the S&W logo on the frame-----a little thin for your taste? No problem! How about the grooves on the grip frame---beat all to hell are they? No problem! Got a round butt that used to be square? No problem.

There was a sign over the door at Meyer-Drake---the folks that built the Offenhouser racing engines. It went like this: "This Is Serious Business---Bring Money!" There comes a point when you have to ask and answer some tough questions. If you're racing cars, that question goes like this: "Speed costs money---how fast do you want to go?" If you're fooling with guns, it goes like this: Do I want to restore this beater to as close to new as it can get, or would I be happier (and richer) if I just find a better gun?

I leave you with this point to ponder: The way to make a small fortune collecting guns (or racing cars) is to start with a large fortune.

Ralph Tremaine
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Old 10-15-2015, 09:06 PM
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Having sent a gun to Ford's, I can say they do a fine refinishing. The master blue is darker than the S&W bright blue, but very close to the finish on a Model 58 I have.
I would call them and discuss what you want done-it will influence the price quoted. After that, it's largely what you're willing to spend. For me, it was worth it. Link with pix if you're interested:

Refinishing: Back from Ford's (Bandwidth warning)
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Old 10-16-2015, 12:53 AM
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The primary reason Turnbulls doesn't do DA revolvers is that they can't make their level of profit on them that they can get on their other work.
It's that simple.

The DA revolver configuration is a complicated form to polish out correctly. Keeping the results up to the demands of a top shelf restoration while keeping labor hours down to a level that still makes them profitable (compared to SA's and semiautos) just isn't there.

Unless you do have the dozens of properly shaped and mounted & balanced grit wheels ready to go for each part and shape and the talent to use them, you're not going to get near that goal.

It's back to hand polishing which is labor intensive (expensive) and actually doesn't yield the correct result when held side by side with a master polishers hand HELD but polished with mechanical belts and wheels as the factorys did,,and they all did them that way.
Buffers were and are the death of a fine firearm polish.

The master metal polishers were the highest paid laborers in the firearms factorys at one time. Surpassing engravers, wood workers, checking and wood carvers.

Most semi auto pistols and SA revolvers can still be polished out rather quickly on belt (grinders), slack belts and a few small simple grit wheels. Leaving very little hand work but more importantly getting that 'factory' polished look to the metal.
It's a look you just can't quite get by hand I'm afraid.
The difference is obvious to those who know what to look for.
Even the polishing lines/grit lines must be repeated as factory during the restoration or it's a dead give-away to the sharp eyed buyer.

Markings can be re-cut by hand engraving,,even the smallest of lettering.
Roll die re-stamping can be done if the restorer has the die(s) and the set up to use them. Don't do as one well known guy did and crank down on the impression so heavy that you could see it inside the bore of the 44 and 45 cal SAA's.
There's etching processes of different types too.

It's surprising sometimes how badly abused and mistreated the gun can be and can still be brought back to life with careful work.
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