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DAdams · #1 10-26-2015, 11:59 AM

Butt SN 719827

Crane area 54518

Also a number 9851

Has lanyard ring.

Thanks

JP@AK · #2 10-26-2015, 01:54 PM

Not much info to go on, but it appears to be a British Service Revolver from the 1940s. Is there a V (or an SV) in front of that serial number?
The oddity is the 4" barrel, which would lead one to believe there is no V - hence an early BSR.

DAdams · #3 10-26-2015, 02:08 PM

What is the significance of the 3.5 ton?
I didn't see a V or SV.
Nephew inherited it from Wife's Grandfathers recent passing.

He mentioned something about "experimental"?

Thanks for your input.

glowe · #4 10-26-2015, 02:15 PM

There were around 4000 4" barreled 38 M&P, 4th Victory revolver shipped in 1945 in a "V" serial number range just under yours. They were US Navy contract guns, but no 4" guns to England were listed. The other option is that it does not have a "V" serial number and that would make it a 1941 Pre-Victory gun shipped to England. There were supposedly 4", 5", and 6" guns in this series.

Bottom line is there are 2 serial numbers that match yours, one in the "pre" model and one in the "V" model. Let us know which you have?

ADDED: just saw your post after I had entered mine. No V is a Pre-Victory 38 Hand Ejector, 4th Change British Military revolver. I am of the understanding that the "ton" stamping signified the working pressure for the ammunition. This number will convert to something less than 8000 psi (7840 to be exact), but maximum chamber pressure for the 38 S&W round was 13,000 psi. I assume the 8000 was the working pressures.

digi-shots · #5 10-26-2015, 03:02 PM

I agree with everyone else that's is a pre-war service revolver.

There's a good chance it was shipped to the Union of South Africa, as were other 4" pre-Victory guns in this serial number range with a 4" barrel.

You mention another number.... is it stamped on the back strap of the gun... just behind the hammer area? If so, see if there's also what looks like the letter "U" with a broad arrow in the center. If this is the case, then you most likely have a South Africa shipped pre-Victory. They were originally ordered from S&W by the British Purchasing Commission with a destination of Cape Town, South Africa.

There are some others in this same serial number range that shipped in mid to late 1940.

digi-shots · #6 10-26-2015, 03:14 PM

Here's a South Africa pre-Victory that was shipped in September of 1940. It has a UDF number of 6542.

Absalom · #7 10-26-2015, 03:46 PM

Just an added note:

The barrel stampings are post-war commercial proofs which were applied to the gun prior to its release from service, and are not related to its military service. The ex-BSR's so marked were proofed at Birmingham or London (see snip from Pate below), indicating they were released from British service. I don't know whether this was applied to other Commonwealth guns.

Linda, does your SA gun have the ton proofs?

PS: Do they spell "revolver" with two "w" in Afrikaans?

digi-shots · #8 10-26-2015, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Absalom

Just an added note:

The barrel stampings are post-war commercial proofs which were applied to the gun prior to its release from service, and are not related to its military service. The ex-BSR's so marked were proofed at Birmingham or London (see snip from Pate below), indicating they were released from British service. I don't know whether this was applied to other Commonwealth guns.

Linda, does your SA gun have the ton proofs?

PS: Do they spell "revolver" with two "w" in Afrikaans?

Absalom, I've got two of them and they are both marked the same... the "TON" stamp, plus the Crown /BNP; and they both have a view mark.

It's interesting that one was in the first May 3, 1940 shipment to South Africa, but was diverted to England (has no UDF stamping on the backstrap). The other was in a later shipment and did make it to the Union of South Africa, however, it also has the "view" stamping.

I've got a good friend, Paul, who is South African.. I'll have to ask him about the "W" thing!

Another forum member, Peter, lives in South Africa... perhaps to stop by here and add to this thread.

DWalt · #9 10-26-2015, 04:10 PM

"PS: Do they spell "revolver" with two "w" in Afrikaans?"
Indeed they do. Also Polish. Several years ago I ran into an aging British vet with a fair supply of ammo cartons of the type pictured, and he assured me that they were South African. Seems I remember that the paper labels were of a reddish or pinkish color, but I am not sure about that.

I'd say 719827 (no prefix) shipped in early 1941. Closest I have on my list are 714xx which shipped on 2/14/41 and 7235xx which shipped on 4/4/41. Not to deny it couldn't have shipped earlier or later or to South Africa. I do list several South African guns in the same SN neighborhood which shipped on various dates in 1940.

digi-shots · #10 10-26-2015, 04:49 PM

DWalt, did the 2 guns you mentioned ship to the South Africa or to Britain? Do you know if they were 4" or 5" ?

My records show a 4" in the 720xxx range being shipped on 8-1-1940 to Capetown, South Africa. It was in a shipment of 1800 guns.

Some later shipments of 5" guns went to South Africa in late 1941 and were part of the 3rd order placed by South Africa on 6/7/41.