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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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Old 10-26-2015, 06:31 PM
LewisFamilyFirearms LewisFamilyFirearms is offline
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Looking for a value of a Smith Wesson pre model 15 (I think), this gun was engraved but I have no idea on who did it. The gun is engraved about 95% maybe even more. On the side there is a engraved silver inlay of a dog chasing a cat up a tree (they even engraved the tail, whiskers, teeth, ext on the cat). Also this S&W has REAL ivory K frame grips that look as old as the gun itself. What do you guys think the value of this piece is?
Better photos to come, just took quick pics with my phone
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Old 10-26-2015, 06:42 PM
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I'm very much a neophyte in such things, but you might look into Japanese engraving immediately post WW2. I have a Savage 24 with very similar (looking at it now, very very similar) engraving. The guy I bought it from said that his uncle was stationed in Japan and had it engraved there:





Sadly the blue didn't really work out on mine. I have been thinking I should have it properly blued again at some point.
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Old 10-26-2015, 07:27 PM
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First of all the barrel has been shortened. I am no expert but I am thinking the engraving may be German in origin.

Hard to value things like this. Literally worth what someone would pay. Did you just buy it? It's worth what you paid. If gifted or inherited, it's really anyone's guess. The ivories are worth $400 +/- and a modified K38 is worth around $350 +/- add a couple hundred for the interesting art work and perhaps a total of $1,000-$1,200? But that's just my guess. Don't be offended if you paid more.
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Old 10-26-2015, 07:39 PM
linde linde is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by performancemuscle View Post
Looking for a value of a Smith Wesson pre model 14 (I think), . . .
I can't add anything to the engraving question but the revolver does appear to be a K38 Masterpiece . . . but the barrel length appears to be closer to 5" than the standard 6". There were some special ordered 5" K38s but would need a partial serial number to see if it falls within the s/n range.

Russ
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Old 10-26-2015, 07:46 PM
gmborkovic gmborkovic is offline
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Can you give us an idea of the Sn. so we can track the ship date?
From the ones I have had It sure looks post war, engraved somewhere in the Asian/Oriental Islands. Appears to be push type and not Mexican punch engraving. Appears to have been re-blued and the hammer and trigger have been buffed. Value? Not a clue.
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Old 10-26-2015, 07:48 PM
LewisFamilyFirearms LewisFamilyFirearms is offline
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SN: K99899 Is the exact serial number
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Old 10-26-2015, 07:48 PM
Big Cholla Big Cholla is offline
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I too think it is post Korean War Japanese. I saw quite a few of handguns and rifles done in Japan for returning Veterans of the Korean Police Action. This looks like one of the better examples. Many were of engraving that was much more heavy handed in execution. ..........
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Old 10-26-2015, 07:52 PM
LewisFamilyFirearms LewisFamilyFirearms is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmborkovic View Post
Can you give us an idea of the Sn. so we can track the ship date?
From the ones I have had It sure looks post war, engraved somewhere in the Asian/Oriental Islands. Appears to be push type and not Mexican punch engraving. Appears to have been re-blued and the hammer and trigger have been buffed. Value? Not a clue.
SN: K99899 Is the exact serial number
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Old 10-26-2015, 07:52 PM
LewisFamilyFirearms LewisFamilyFirearms is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by linde View Post
I can't add anything to the engraving question but the revolver does appear to be a K38 Masterpiece . . . but the barrel length appears to be closer to 5" than the standard 6". There were some special ordered 5" K38s but would need a partial serial number to see if it falls within the s/n range.

Russ
SN: K99899 Is the exact serial number
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Old 10-26-2015, 07:58 PM
LewisFamilyFirearms LewisFamilyFirearms is offline
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It is a pre model 15 not 14
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Old 10-26-2015, 07:59 PM
linde linde is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by performancemuscle View Post
SN: K99899 Is the exact serial number
Of the known factory special runs of 5" Masterpieces, none are lower than K100000. There is always the possibility of a special order barrel length but since the caliber roll mark appear off-center, I suspect it was shortened after it left the factory.

Very nice with a very desirable barrel length.

Russ

Last edited by linde; 10-26-2015 at 08:04 PM. Reason: correct terminology
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Old 10-26-2015, 08:09 PM
LewisFamilyFirearms LewisFamilyFirearms is offline
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Barrel and cylinder are numbers matching to the gun
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Old 10-26-2015, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by performancemuscle View Post
It is a pre model 15 not 14
The barrel profile of yours appears to be a K-38 Heavy Masterpiece . . . which, in a standard catalogued 6" barrel length, went on to become the Model 14.

Here is a special ordered factory 5" K-38 Masterpiece with the narrow rib and tapered barrel profile which . . . in a standard cataloged 4" barrel length . . . went on to become the Model 15.



Russ
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Old 10-26-2015, 08:27 PM
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That serial number suggests shipment in late 1950, but it could have left the factory a few months later if it languished in inventory for a while. The gun is a heavy-barrel/wide-rib Masterpiece, which would have been in production and available for about a year at that time. Like others here, I suspect the barrel has been shortened.

I wish I had a thought about the engraving, but I don't. I defer to those who have seen something similar and reported their beliefs about possible origin.

EDITED TO ADD: Russ got in with the heavy barrel observation while I was still stabbing at the keys!
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Old 10-26-2015, 09:36 PM
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The gun is well done. Over the years I've seen some and even bought a few. Its difficult to impossible to nail down the origin of the engraver. One I bought maybe 15 years ago is just spectacular. So I took it to the big Louisville gun show. I handed it to a friend there, Jeff Flannery, to see if he could shed any light. He did what I did, and what you should do. Look at every inch of the gun, over and over. Look for any kind of signature or makers mark. Such an inspection can easily take hours. Take the grips off and look at the grip frame, too. With my gun we found no joy. But walking up aisle toward us was the then president of the engravers guild. He looked for a good long time. Then he admitted he didn't know the artist, and gave the opinion that he wasn't in the guild, but should be.

My suggestion to you would be to attend a show near where you live and see if you can find an engraver to look at it. Engravers do a better job of looking than you or I. They know the art and where someone may have placed a signature or indication of who did it. If you fail, try another engraver. Gun experts are a dime a dozen. If you trust one, you could have them look at it. You could even post a close up of the inlay. Not because we'd gain much, but I'd love to see it!
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Old 10-26-2015, 09:44 PM
LewisFamilyFirearms LewisFamilyFirearms is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rburg View Post
The gun is well done. Over the years I've seen some and even bought a few. Its difficult to impossible to nail down the origin of the engraver. One I bought maybe 15 years ago is just spectacular. So I took it to the big Louisville gun show. I handed it to a friend there, Jeff Flannery, to see if he could shed any light. He did what I did, and what you should do. Look at every inch of the gun, over and over. Look for any kind of signature or makers mark. Such an inspection can easily take hours. Take the grips off and look at the grip frame, too. With my gun we found no joy. But walking up aisle toward us was the then president of the engravers guild. He looked for a good long time. Then he admitted he didn't know the artist, and gave the opinion that he wasn't in the guild, but should be.

My suggestion to you would be to attend a show near where you live and see if you can find an engraver to look at it. Engravers do a better job of looking than you or I. They know the art and where someone may have placed a signature or indication of who did it. If you fail, try another engraver. Gun experts are a dime a dozen. If you trust one, you could have them look at it. You could even post a close up of the inlay. Not because we'd gain much, but I'd love to see it!
If you PM me your email, I will send you some photos once I take better ones Thanks for the help
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Old 10-26-2015, 10:38 PM
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Definitely a pre-14 K38 masterpiece with the barrel cut down. Started as a 6" and not sure if now 4, 4.5 or 5" at this point but the front sight is obviously reattached.

Very interesting gun. Everyone seems to think Oriental origins and I can't argue. With the unadorned ivories I was thinking German or Austrian but I could be wrong on the engraving.
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Old 11-02-2015, 09:00 AM
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The grips look like perhaps later additions, or at least not the style proposed to be on the gun when the engraving was ordered.
The magna style grip covers a part of the scroll on the frame on both sides.
Then again, perhaps if done in the post WW2 occupation market of 'trade a carton of coffin nails for the engraving' you got what the starving artist returned to you.
The grips do look a bit like Art Jewel/Eagle or maybe Ajax with the shiny brass escutcheon and screw.
Take the grips off, there may be a grip mfg name on the back of them. Perhaps some engravers info under there too on the frame.

If I had to guess, and it would only be that,,I'd say it was an Asian engraver. Most of the guess going by the style of the inlay work, not the scroll.
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Old 11-02-2015, 11:05 AM
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A 1950 K 14 or K15 would have come standard with Magna style grips.
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Old 11-04-2015, 06:15 PM
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Nice looking gun being engraved by a non- famous person. Larry
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Old 11-05-2015, 11:10 AM
LewisFamilyFirearms LewisFamilyFirearms is offline
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Nice looking gun being engraved by a non- famous person. Larry
How could you know it is a non-famous engraver if I never discussed who the engraver was. Also if it was done by a non-famous engraver, why did you PM me about possibly purchasing it?
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Old 11-05-2015, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
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How could you know it is a non-famous engraver if I never discussed who the engraver was. Also if it was done by a non-famous engraver, why did you PM me about possibly purchasing it?
To me, engraving on any specific gun is something that either "speaks" to you or it does not. I have a bunch of engraved guns and for the last several years, that is where I have spent my collecting time and dollars. Just because I have not determined who engraved something, really has no impact as to whether or not the engraving "speaks" to me and therefore, that knowledge does not determine whether I would like to add it to my collection. Knowing the engraver, particularly if it is a well-known engraver, increases the provenance of the gun and almost all of the time it increases the value as well. People, myself included, will pay more for a gun if it is documented who the artist was that engraved the work.

Engraved gun collectors go to great lengths to try and figure out who engraved their guns and if possible, try and get letters from the engraver as part of the gun's documentation.

Long winded way of saying that someone can really like the engraving of a particular gun and want to purchase it, even if the engraver is unknown or if known is not a famous engraver.

The engraving on your gun is nice (it doesn't really speak to me personally), but you have had some pretty knowledgeable guys chime in as to where they think it came from. I too would agree with the general sentiment that it was engraved by someone with an Asian influence.

Good luck and let us know if you track down the engraver.
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Old 11-06-2015, 12:09 AM
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Seemed all the responses so far leaned toward another country probably the way the animals are done. The rest of the work looks like a lot of engravers would do by the pictures provided. It's nicely done, the gun looks great. Sometimes when someone is trying to establish a price, the gun MAY be for sale. Been on this forum for a long time. I watch Gun-broker for engraved S&W's and hope to eventually buy one. At the point I PM'd you it seemed that with a cut bbl. (I like 5" barrels) and no famous name emerging for the art work, it may be a reasonable purchase if for sale. Didn't mean to offend you with the words I used before but some very knowledgeable have replied to this thread. Larry
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Old 11-06-2015, 09:44 PM
LewisFamilyFirearms LewisFamilyFirearms is offline
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Does anyone recognize this signature (I think its a signature)
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Old 11-06-2015, 09:45 PM
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Just uploaded a new photo
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Old 11-07-2015, 02:33 PM
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Does anyone recognize this signature (I think its a signature)

Has anyone ever seen engraving like this?-12021726_1138811136148824_424043090_n-jpg
Not something that I've seen before - but it looks kind of like a Japanese/Chinese character to me.
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Old 11-08-2015, 12:50 PM
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Did you measure the bbl length? It has a nice look to it, Larry
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Old 11-10-2015, 08:18 PM
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Here is a somewhat close example. This .357 mag was shipped in 1954 to the agency in Seattle handling the overseas post exchanges. The gun was shipped plain blue so a service member probably had it engraved overseas so the points I have seen in many of the prior posts are probably valid if one thinks this might be the same engraver.
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Old 11-16-2015, 11:14 PM
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Anyone have any ideas?
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