Didn't want to clean until I verify what/when this is. It looked like there was multiple dates or excessive writing on top/left side of barrel which thru me off but was hard to see under magnifying glass. Any thoughts greatly appreciated.

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can you post some of the Sn and caliber?

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Mike 2796
SoFo Bunch member

looks like an early round butt M&P or I frame 32. Not sure from that one picture. What caliber is it? Serial number would help narrow down the time frame and model as would some more pics.

This is the only other pic I have at this time. Not sure what the caliber was. I am not near the pistol right now but I will try to post more info.

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Welcome! From the size and spacing of the SN digits on the bottom of the grip frame, this is a .32 Hand Ejector from 1910. The chambering is .32 S & W Long. Not sure why the age and caliber makes or breaks the decision to clean it, except I doubt a .44 bore brush will fit . Hope this is helpful.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

Ok, I will maybe be wrong again, but it sure looks like a Model 1905 M&P to me?? I don't believe that S&W made a square butt 32 Long HE??

Look on the left side of the barrel for a caliber marking.

I have a 38 Model 1905, 1st Change with serial number 100007 that shipped in June, 1907, so yours is likely the same year.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

I think the first photo shows a 4 1/4" I frame; the proportions are all wrong for a K frame.

Here is a photo of a similar vintage square butt K frame. Can't swear the factory used the same font and size for these but it shows the proportions of the digits to the flat.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

I still do not know of any Model 1903s with square butts. Also there is a pin ahead of the cylinder stop on the left side of the frame and that only appears on the Model 1905, but I cannot find any on my Model 1903s.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

7641duckcreek - While the pros are figuring out exactly what you have, go ahead and clean it up with standard gun cleaning products. You may be concerned that altering the patina of a near antique would decrease its value. (In the gun world, antiques are defined as pre-1899.) Not so in this case. Just don't get aggressive and remove any finish. Due to condition, the gun will not have great value. Likely in the mid-$100s, not $1000s.

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Some collect art; I shoot it!

The caliber will be stamped on the barrel. In that condition, no matter what it is, it will not be very valuable. Better pictures showing the entire revolver would be helpful.

Hello Mr. Duck, pls. no steel wool. Oil and T shirt. Do it and see what the results are.

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Mike 2796
SoFo Bunch member

Why are we talking about square butts?
This gun is obviously a ROUND butt.
TIP: When is the last time you saw SERVICE grips made of black hard rubber with a SQUARE butt?

To me, the gun appears to be a 38 Military & Police from around 1907.
If you're a die-hard OCD, you might need to call it a Mod 1902 cause it has a round butt.
If you ever need to order parts, you better call it a Mod 1905-1st Change, the first variant with a rebound slide, which a 1902 doesn't have.

It may not have a caliber marked on the barrel. I have seen unmarked guns extend into the 05-1st and even the 05-2nd.
It is almost certainly a 38 Special, but there is a possibility that it is a 38 Long Colt. If a 38 Spec fits, that's what it is.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

One more opinion, and total agreement with Lee except on one detail. So far as I know, except for the very earliest Model 1899s, including the Army & Navy orders, were the only ones ever chambered for the .38 Long Colt. This revolver is way too late to be anything except .38 Spl. or .32-Winchester!

This revolver is a M&P (or Winchester Model if .32-20) 5" round butt from ca. 1907 (or early 1920s if .32-20). My money is on a 1907 .38! How so many can be so far off with all the clues so obvious is beyond me. More detailed pictures would be helpful!

And, Duck, contrary to some opinions there is absolutely nothing wrong with using 0000 Steel Wool and light oil to remove the dirt, light rust and whatever fouling may be present. Back in the 1950s & '60s it used to be common to see guns that someone had tried to clean up using a powered wire brush, and that will cause damage, but fine steel wool will not! I was taught to use this in gunsmithing school (Trinidad) over 50 years ago and have been using it ever since, never have seen any discernable finish damage even when used quite aggressively/repeatedly. Anyone who says it will cause damage is simply parroting what they have seen on the internet and don't know what they are talking about!

This is for everyone who doesn't know how to determine barrel length from a photo. Since in the period this gun was made the only choices were 4", 5", 6", 6 1/2". Since the barrel lug is in the same position on all lengths simply compare the length from the lug forward to the distance to the cylinder face. On a 4" the lug will be obviously closer to the muzzle. On a 5" the lug will be centered. On a 6" the length will be greater from the lug to the muzzle. The 6 1/2" will be a lot longer to the muzzle! Sometimes the 6 & 6 1/2 are a bit challenging to tell apart, but the others are easy!

As Lee said, there are no square butt hard rubber stocks on any frame size, so that should have been easy.

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Gunsmithing since 1961

NOT a 32/20.
The number is too high for a mushroom knob.

Just so you know-
4/0 steel wool will scratch the bright carbona blue of the pre-war era.
If you attack tiny freckles on an otherwise nice gun, it produces tiny scratches on that very bright surface that will then appear to be a dull spot. Even a 3X magnifier will show those scratches. I speak from personal experience, not internet talk.
On a gun this worn, it is much faster and cheaper than bronze wool which I use in copious amounts. I almost never use 4/0 steel, but on this gun I would.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

Lee
I'm not so sure about this. As I read it, the serial number on the OP's gun is 101868. I've seen the mushroom shape knob on .32-20 HEs with numbers clear up in the 130xxx range. They did not go away as quickly on the .32-20s as they did on the .38.

But I do agree this one is much more likely to be a .38. One issue is the round butt. By the 1920s those were becoming scarce.

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

To all thanks much. Will repost findings and better pics after it's cleaned when I'm back home

Jack beat me to it. OPs SN is hard to read, but it does look like 101,000 range. (I see 101853 or 101858, but Jack's 101868 is just as likely!) This dates to early 1921 for a ship date per my SN list. The mushroom rod head continued on the Winchester Model until somewhere in the 1928-1930 date range.

See photos below and if you can tell the "correct" SN post it! Maybe after it is cleaned!

glowe,

Gary, the "Made in USA" won't be on this gun no matter whether if it is .32-20 or .38 Spl, it is pre-1922 no matter what. The fact that the stocks are obviously hard rubber in both photos precludes this being a square butt, no matter how much of it you can see! All S&W square butt stocks were wood.

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Gunsmithing since 1961

I could not see the rear of the butt in the OPs first picture, but we agreed it is a K frame revolver. They have made black hard rubber replacement K frame stocks for some time, but now that you said that I see the second picture of the butt with the serial number does indicate a round butt revolver. That would make your gun a Model 1902, since the Model 1905 had the square butt.

There is a 32/20 HE in Neal/Jinks book with serial number 137,270 that has a mushroom shaped ejector knob (page 89), so it does not rule out that caliber for the OPs gun.

If the OP can photograph the right side of the frame, to determine if there is a MADE IN USA stamp or not to decide if the caliber could be 32-20 or 38 Special. Also, a photo of the rear of the cylinder would help.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

I stand corrected. You guys are right about the mushroom knob on the 32 WCF.
I still bet it's a 38.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

The finish is far past the point where the use of steel wool to clean it will make any difference in value. But most recommend using copper wool (Chore Boy) instead of 0000 steel wool as it is less abrasive. About any kind of light lube oil will work OK, or even bore cleaning solvent or mineral spirits. That revolver is in DIY refinishing condition. If you have the patience for a project, it would be a great candidate for trying a rust blue finish kit. Replica grips are available.

Refinish, replacement grips, restore the rust bluing!? Are you guys crazy?
Wipe the gun off with oil and leave it alone. It would be like me getting a face lift. I earned every wrinkle and sun spot. Its a grumpy old gun with a tale to tell.

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Mike 2796
SoFo Bunch member

"All S&W square butt stocks were wood."

Unless they were mother of pearl or ivory.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!