.38 1899/1902/4-scr 1905 Caliber Roll Marking

mikepriwer · #1 11-29-2015, 05:08 PM

Earlier threads have raised questions about the caliber roll marking, or lack thereof, on
early .38 K-frames. Here are the details on 21 such guns, ordered by serial number.

1254 1/11/1900 1899 6 1/2" Blue M&P no caliber marking
0XX 2/12/1900 1899 6 1/2" Nickel Tgt "38 Special"
1404 8/19/1999 1899 6" Nickel Tgt no caliber marking
1949 9/26/1900 1899 4" Nickel Tgt no caliber marking
3695 5/28/1900 1899 5" Blue Tgt no caliber marking
3865 9/5/1901 1899 6 1/2" Blue Tgt no caliber marking

10471 6/14/1901 1899 5" Nickel Tgt "38 Special"
12286 4/??/1901 1899 5" Blue M&P "38 Special" ------- (Linde)
14810 8/14/1901 1899 4" Blue Tgt "38 Special"
17085 9/10/1901 1899 6" Blue Tgt "38 Special"
18291 12/24/1901 1899 4" Blue M&P "38 Special"
20114 1/4/1902 1899 5" Blue M&P "38 Special"

All of the following revolvers are marked with the 2-line caliber marking:
38 Special &
US Service Cartridge

33267 11/13/1904 1902 6 1/2" Nickel M&P
37577 2/14/1904 1902 1st-chg 6 1/2" Blue Tgt
38787 circa 1904 1902 1st-chg 6 1/2" Blue Tgt
45225 6/8/1904 1902 1st-chg 4" Blue Tgt
47824 7/13/1904 1902 1st-chg 4" Blue M&P
50911 2/23/1905 1902 1st-chg 5" Blue Tgt

58652 6/9/1905 4-screw 1905 4" Blue M&P
59763 9/5/1906 4-screw 1905 5" Blue Tgt
61442 10/14/1905 4-screw 1905 6 1/2" Blue Tgt
62015 1/8/1906 4-screw 1905 6 1/2" Blue Tgt

0XX 4/12/1907 5-screw 1905 6 1/2" Blue Tgt
98929 7/??/1907 5-screw 1905 1st-chg 6 1/2" Blue Tgt --- (Linde)
100007 1907 5-screw 6 1/2" Blue 1902 1st Chg - (Glowe)

The following revolvers have the one-line caliber roll marking:

129245 1908 5-screw 5" Blue 1902 1st-chg ------(Glowe)

From this small sample of data, it would appear that there were no caliber markings
prior to the 2nd quarter of 1901. From there through the end of the 1899's, the caliber
roll marking was "38 Special". One or the other, or both, of the two military contracts
were 2-line markings.

The one exception ( in this data) is the zero gun shipped 2/12/1900. This was a special
gun, being sent to the 1900 Paris Exhibition. One its return in 1901, it was delivered
to D B Wesson. While not likely, its possible that the gun had no caliber marking
originally, and on its return was roll-marked with the caliber. Or, it was marked
originally.

The early 1902's, and the 1902 1st-changes were, from this sample, two-line markings.
The early 4-screw 1905's, made with some 1902 1st changes in the 58000 - 62450
serial number range, were also 2-line markings.

If there is a bottom line, one should not be alarmed or concerned about caliber roll
markings on 1899's.

Regards, Mike Priwer

glowe · #2 11-29-2015, 06:31 PM

Glad you posted this information. I have a 1907 Model 1902, 1st Change - 100007 - 6 1/2" Blue that has the 2 line caliber stamping on the left side of the barrel, so that is in line with your club gun. I also have a 1908 Model 1902, 2nd Change - 129245 - 5" Blue that has a single line address - 38 S&W SPECIAL CTG. Maybe the change was near 1907-1908 at the time the 2nd Change came out?

linde · #3 11-29-2015, 07:22 PM

Would like to add .38 Model 1899, blue, 5" service, s/n 12286 with .38 Special caliber marking on left side of barrel. Roy confirms it shipped in April 1901 . . . slightly earlier than the middle of 1901 start of caliber marking based on Mike's existing data.

I also have .38 M&P, blue, 6 1/2" target, s/n 98929 with dual caliber markings on left side of barrel. It is a 5-screw square butt frame with rebound slide pin so I'm calling it a Model 1905 1st change. Roy confirms it shipped in July 1907.

Russ

jmb1967 · #4 12-19-2018, 11:52 PM

I just recently picked up a 38 special that I believe is a 1902. The serial number on the rounded butt of the gun is 28651. It is a 6.5 inch barrel and the gun is a nickel finish. I'm trying to figure out what I have since I seem to be looking a lot of conflicting info, any help would be greatly appreciated (and I know pictures speak volumes but I am trying to get them loaded) and wondered if the serial number and a discription would get me some answers. The gun has 4 screws on the right side/what is a 5 screw gun and does that even apply to this old of a revolver?

glowe · #5 12-20-2018, 11:23 AM

Welcome to the Forum. The best way to ask for information about a new gun is to start a thread, not attach to a 3 year old one. No big deal but more members will open a new thread.

The Model 1902/1905 controversy has been going on a long time and if you search through Model 1902 threads you can get a great deal of information and differing opinions on what a Model 1902 is? The bible of S&W collecting has always been a Neal and Jinks book titled Smith & Wesson 1857 - 1945. The description there is that all 32-20 and 38 Special revolvers built without a cylinder stop spring screw were Model 1902s. They were also called a 38 Hand Ejector Military & Police Model 1902, Second Model and 38 Hand Ejector Military & Police Model 1902, First Change. The serial number range was from 20,976-62,449. The first Model 1905 was the introduction of the 5 screw model.

The opposing views on how to name this model stem from the fact that all early S&W catalogs and literature referred to the Model 1902 as a round butt revolver and the Model 1905 as a square butt revolver well into the 1910s. Catalogs contained images of a round butt revolver in the first two decades of the models production as a Model 1902. The image of the square butt was labeled 1905.

The bottom line is that historically, the catalogs trump the collectors names, but the collectors names are easier to identify. Problems are that there were square butt guns made with 4 screws and round butt guns made with 5 screws.

Your revolver is a Model 1902, most likely shipped in 1903. Hope this helps.

Wiregrassguy · #6 12-20-2018, 11:32 AM

jmb1967, you are correct on your .38 M&P being a Model 1902. The 1902s start at SN 20976 and are round butt guns. S&W made about 13,000 units of the first model 1902. The Models 1899 and 1902 were 4 screw guns because of the way the lockwork is designed. The change to add the trigger guard screw was done to the Model 1905 when S&W introduced the rebound slide and altered the cylinder stop mechanism. If you haven't already, you should remove the sideplate and inspect the internals. They are very different than later guns.