I have a 38sp, hand ejector, 4", fixed S&W revolver, sn 274083. Based on reading the posts here I think it's probably ~1917. I removed the side plate to fix a sticky cylinder release slide and discovered there is no hammer block. Did this revolver come with one? I've researched this issue and find comments like this: "Only a small percentage of guns retrofitted with the hammer block." on TheHighRoad.org. Can anyone shed light on this?
Welcome! A photo of the internals would help here; there is a hammer block style that would have been in a 1917 era .38 M & P, and another (from about 1945) that is still in use. Sometimes they were removed to try to improve the trigger pull, not necessarily a good safety idea.
That serial number would have shipped in 1917, so should have had a hammer block. The actual application of the 1914 patent was adopted on the 38 M&P in 1915. Is it possible that someone found a pre-1915 frame, sideplate, and internal parts? Maybe, but check to see if a slot is found on the right side of the hammer by looking while it is cocked? Also, as Muley Gil stated, look a the sideplate for the telltale pin that would indicate the hammer block patent was originally applied to your revolver. Pictures are from a 38 perfected, but the location of the hammer block parts are the same.
If you are interested, I have additional information about the 1914 Patent and its applications in a Commentary.
Thanks for the responses, folks. See image....Wilhelm
Just added an under-hammer image. The thing that got me opening this pistol was the sticky cylinder release. I disassembled and oiled everything. The problem persists. I wonder, though, there is a spring & pin in the back of the cylinder release slide that pushes it forward and holds it there. What is supposed to retract the cylinder release? Is there a missing item?
Update: Just called S&W about the hammer block and was told that they don't have parts for "old antiques". He referred me to Jack First. The lady there told me that the listings don't show a hammer block on the early S&W hand ejector models.....
Any ideas why the cylinder release slide won't retract?
TG is correct- it never had a hammer block.
The cylinder release is pushed backward by the center pin inside the ejector rod.
Open the cylinder. Look at the pin sticking out the back in the middle of the extractor. It should stick out about 3/32" and be rounded on the end.
You should be able to push it in with your thumb nail, and it should pop right back out. If your thumb nail won't work, try anything made of plastic or wood that is not important in case you scratch the item.
If that pin does not move easily, that is your problem. They are usually sticky with ancient oil, but I have found them rusted.
If that pin does not move easily, that is your problem. They are usually sticky with ancient oil, but I have found them rusted.
Lee, the center pin is free and springy. When the cylinder is out, the cylinder release slide is also free and springy. The only logical explanation is that the center pin isn't lining up with the corresponding hole until I fiddle with it by pushing the slide rearwards and pulling the hammer back. After a bit of that is works. Obviously not possible with live ammo.
I suspect that the gun was whacked out of alignment - dropped or banged up. I doubt the gun has much value so it may not even be worthwhile to fix it at gunsmith's rates.
The pin on the cylinder release never completely leaves the hole it works in. Are you sure the spring fits in it is clean and in good shape. Are the springs for the ejector rod clean and in good shape and is the ejector rod straight? The center rod in the ejector needs to push the pin end of the cylinder release slide back so that the hammer can clear the cut in it. Have you removed and cleaned the ejector rod assy and checked those springs and cleaned and oiled? It is possible that the yoke is messed up and not allowing the cylinder to get home enough to allow the center pin where it goes through ejector star to push pack the latch assy. Can you see gaps or anything wrong with yoke line up?
Last edited by steelslaver; 12-15-2015 at 08:20 PM.
Sounds like the yoke might be slightly bent.
That can happen more than most folks realize. Any smith familiar with S&Ws or any cop who's been through the Armorer's course can fix it easily if he has the alignment tool to check it with.
That serial number would have shipped in 1917, so should have had a hammer block. The actual application of the 1914 patent was adopted on the 38 M&P in 1915. Is it possible that someone found a pre-1915 frame, sideplate, and internal parts? Maybe, but check to see if a slot is found on the right side of the hammer by looking while it is cocked? Also, as Muley Gil stated, look a the sideplate for the telltale pin that would indicate the hammer block patent was originally applied to your revolver. Pictures are from a 38 perfected, but the location of the hammer block parts are the same.
If you are interested, I have additional information about the 1914 Patent and its applications in a Commentary.
Gary's commentary on the perfected model and the hammer block is excellent, except for several references to "cast" frames. So far as I know, no S&W revolver with the exception of the no.! first and second issue ever had a cast frame. The frames were hot forged from either wrought iron or steel for the no. 1 1/2 and no.2 and all later revolvers.
Sorry for hijacking the thread, but . . . hopefully only a quick diversion.
Tom - interesting comment. So the factory started out with a block of steel and milled it into shape? If so, there would have been no rough casting. I had read about castings and S&W, but the references were never associated with any particular model. Maybe happened only on early models?? Any input would be appreciated and I can then better define how the non-thumb latch Perfected would have been made.
Gary: With a hot forging, a block of steel of the correct size is heated red hot and pressed between two dies to form the shape of the desired part, and at the same time possibly pinch off unneeded material. The frame, barrel, hammer and trigger would have been formed by hot forging, while the cylinder, ejector rod and screws would have been machined from round bar stock. The frame would have gone through several milling and drilling operations, including the milling of the slot for the thumb latch. The perfected model without the thumb latch would have just skipped that milling operation, and the drillind operation for the cylinder bolt. The deleted operations would have saved a bit of labor and fitting, and would not have affected the durability of the revolver, since the top latch had been adequate for many years.
Bringing this one back from the dead as I now own the gun. It has been reblued. S&W mark is about gone and the barrel markings just visible. The problem with the ejector and lock up was because both springs had been cut off or were replaced with springs from something else. Replaced both those and it locks up and functions. Quite a bit of end shake. Yoke tube is worn and possibly a bit out of line. Cylinder slides by stop when open. I am going to use it to make a K frame 32S&W. I have a cylinder and yoke on the way as well as a 32-20 barrel. Going to be just a shooter. I like my I frames, but kinda small for my oversized meat hooks.
Hand Ejector, 38sp, missing Hammer Block
Linear Mode
