Greetings Everyone!

I'm new here and this is my first post. I have some questions regarding correct grips on my K38 and thought I'd pick the brains of you experts.

I have a 1956 K38 4 screw, serial# K 278XXX which came to me with aftermarket grips. My intention is to restore it to as close to original factory as possible.

Can anyone tell me what are the correct, authentic period grips for a Heavy Target Masterpiece of this serial number range? Would they be the Diamond Magna Stocks or the Diamond Target Stocks?

Also, how do I identify authentic period grips? Would either pair of diamond grips, correct to that age and serial number range have the "bright metal" washer backing the SW emblem? Did they make any correct grips for that period with the "blue metal" washers?

In other words, if I find diamond grips of either style with the "blued" washers instead of "silvery", are they reproductions?

What year did the transition occur from silver washer to blued washer for K frames?

Any and all suggestions and advise will be greatly appreciated here. Seems like the more I learn about these beauties, the more there is to learn!

Thank you!

Hi and welcome to the Forum.
The revolver shown below carries serial number K278720, and it was shipped in November, 1956. The stocks on it are original. They have the blued stamped steel medallion retaining washer. The correct stocks for your gun would look just like these.

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

Thank you so much Jack.

So I had it backwards. The blue stamped washers are early versions then?

By the way, which box it this? Would it be the "gold" box or the dull blue box that came after but before the shiny blue ones?

Thank you for this photo. I will use it as reference. My pistol is only a couple hundred down the run from this beauty at K278936.

Grateful for your response.

Moritz

Welcome to the FORUM! In my book, you have 1 of Smith's finest guns. I have a 14-3, that dates to 1977. (later version of yours) 1 heck of a shooter! I think that they look fantastic also. Bob

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I may be way off track here but weren't target stocks an option?

This one is blue. In 1956 some might still have shipped in the older gold boxes, since S&W always used up what they had on hand. There were different iterations of the blue boxes over the years. I don't have a picture on hand of the top of this one. If I get time later, I'll try to take one and post it.

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

The blue washers are earlier and correct for 1956. I don't think the stainless washers were used until around the early 1970s. Target grips were available as an option or maybe by special order, but the diamond Magnas were standard equipment at that time. Correct target grips for that period would be those without the ejection cutout on the left panel. And a nice-condition pair of those will be costly. I list one close to yours, K27872xx, which shipped in 11/56.

Thank you Jack. Lets see if my attempt at posting photos of a box here were successful? Does this box look correct? Described as the "Dull Blue Box" between the gold and shiney blue from 1955 to 1959.

Moritz

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I believe I read on this forum that the target stocks were an option for that year. On the pictorial posts for K38's.

Not kidding DWalt that they will be spendy. Found a damaged pair for sale for nearly $300!

Thanks to you both.

Moritz

Moritz
I believe the box in your pictures is correct.

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

I've learned so much here in just one day. Thank you again Jack and to the rest of you resident experts here. Thanks to your photo, I've been able to locate the proper grips, box and even cleaning rod and adjustment tool (ouch, $110 bucks for rod and tool!)

Look forward to checking in with this community as I expand my collecting interests from military Colt 1911's to the relatively new world for me of Smith & Wesson. Precision wise, I think the S&W have it over Colt.

In case you did not know it, S&W makes1911's too! (sure you did) I picked up an example from 2009 in Dec. Love it! Bob

Thanks Bananaman. Yes, I've seen them but never paid too much attention before. Now that I'm getting the itch for all things S&W, I may have to revisit them. I like older stuff mostly. Have a nice collection of military .45's and a few really rare pieces, among other rare stuff. First pistol I ever shot though was this K38 I now have. It was my uncle's pistol who took me shooting as a little squirt. I've been around this pistol all my life. Now he's given it to me which has sparked an interest in S&W and a feeling of nostalgia around wanting to restore it to it's factory presentation. The machining and fitting is tighter than Colt. Deep down inside, I think it was my "first love". LOL!

By the way, your Model 14 is beautiful and I saved the photo's along with Jack's in my album. Appreciate your good will.

Chat latter!
Moritz (aka panchovilla61)

Well, yes, given the way you asked the question. The stainless washers came much later. But the fact is, there was an earlier style, used from the introduction of Magna stocks in the mid-1930s until shortly after World War II. Here's what they looked like:



These machined steel washers disappeared pretty quickly after the war and were replaced by the stamped steel type.

The machined washers came in two varieties. The earliest examples were white, like these. After that, some were blued, and then those gave way to the blued stamped washers.

After considerable research, the highest M&P serial number I've found that is confirmed to have shipped with the white machined washers is S814636, shipped in March, 1946. The highest number confirmed with blued machined washers is S820038, which probably shipped in June, 1946.

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

Wonderful Jack! The kind of detail serious collectors crave. I will note this and save photo for future reference.

Can you recommend a few very comprehensive books on S&W in general and K38's specifically? Books that also get into the detail covering sub and transitional variations? Something in the vein of the Clawson books on 1911's (The Bible)? Looks like another university education getting into S&W as well and I need to get started before I get too old.

It's so intriguing to see the level of craftsmanship employed in the old days, and disheartening to see it forsaken as time goes on, in the name of profit and mass production! Same story with Colt.

Those stocks with the machined washers are a thing of shear beauty in themselves. Won't even speculate what they must be worth today. Thank you for sharing this significant tidbit with me. It's all about historical accuracy and maybe even finding a rare gem that hasn't made it into the history books yet and is your very own contribution.

Moritz

PS Do you know by chance where I might find vintage S&W VCI parchment paper the pistols came wrapped in? That would complete my K38 set.

The standard reference that everyone should have is the Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson by Supica and Nahas. The Fourth Edition will be out later this year, so you might want to wait to purchase until it is available. The Third Edition can be found on Amazon.

For the period up through WWII, Smith & Wesson, 1845-1945 by Neal and Jinks is a must have.

For the WWII period, U.S. Handguns of World War II by Charles Pate is an excellent resource.

History of Smith & Wesson by Roy Jinks takes you up to the 1970s.

Another interesting volume, but less factually reliable, is America's Right Arm, by John Henwood. It is a good read, but I've found some incorrect statements scattered throughout. It is really focused on the M&P line, so it won't help much in your K-38 interest. It is worth having, however.


Check eBay and Gun Broker. These items show up there from time to time.

Good luck!

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

JP@AK, I can add some info to your database. I have a 6" M&P, serial #S819469 that shipped 6/5/46 and it has the in the white machined steel washers. Of course it also has the one line address and the LERK.

Great, Walter. Thank you.
I had this one in my database by serial number and barrel length, but had very little other information on it. I assume the stocks number to the gun? If so, it is now the highest number in my database with the white machined washer.

Two other questions:
1. Is the end of the hammer stud visible just below the cylinder release (threaded type)? See this picture - the gun on top has the threaded stud, with the end visible.


Which style release does it have?
Beveled:

Flat:


I appreciate your assistance.

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

Walter Rego
Again looking at this photo, does the checkering pattern on your stocks more closely resemble those on the top gun or the bottom gun?

Thanks again.

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

JP@AK, here is a pic of two M&P's shipped in 1946. The one on the top is the one I mentioned in my previous post. The hammer stud is polished flat, you have to look hard to see it. The cylinder release is the beveled type. And I'm sorry, my memory was faulty. I just pulled the stocks from the 6" gun and they are the machined, but blued washers, not in the white. It's within spittin' distance of your highest reported M&P with blued washers, number S820038, which probably shipped in June, 1946 as well as mine.
I also have the 5" M&P in front of me, it has the hammer stud polished flat but has the flat type cylinder release. I had not noticed the difference between them before. Was the beveled release one of the pre-war parts that was being used up ?

The change order from the threaded to the pressed hammer pivot stud was sent down from management on January 18, 1946 and, apparently, it was implemented on serial number S819462. There does not seem to have been a "transition period" for this change, as it appears to have been implemented nearly immediately. I have only located two revolvers (so far) with serial numbers higher than that with the threaded stud. Both are 2" round butt guns that shipped on August 22, 1946. Their serial numbers are in the S833xxx range.

The beveled release lasted a bit longer. I show them being exclusively used until about S838xxx in September, 1946, and intermittently up to serial number S9285xx in about September, 1947. After that, all of the guns examined so far have had the flat sided release.

That is actually a relief. I have never located a single set of postwar style Magna stocks with the machined white washers. The machined washers on postwar style stocks have all been blued, including yours. Of course, the vast majority of the postwar style stocks have the stamped washer. A very few prewar style stocks have shown up with the machined blued washer, but most of them have the machined white washer.

That would be expected on one in that serial range, although the beveled release was still showing up during that range.

I have to presume that is the case, since all the prewar K frame guns I've ever found have that style release, going clear back to my earliest .38 Model of 1905 (shipped in 1908).

Thank you very much for your assistance!

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

Thanks Again Jack! Was able to find Editions 1 through 4 of Standard Catalog of S&W. Amazon lists edition 4 to be release in June of this year and has it for pre-order for around $35. Someone on ebay is already selling them for around $45 (pre-release date, go figure?) Will search out the other titles to purchase.

Appreciate the exchange between you and Walter. Absorbing as much as I can here. Thank you!

Hello again Jack,

What's your opinion on the 2 books: "Smith & Wesson K-Frame Revolvers 1896 Up Collector Reference" & "Smith & Wesson Hand Guns by McHenry & Roper"?

Is the information they provide worth the expense on thes books in your opinion?

Many thanks,
Moritz

That would, of course, depend on how much you would have to pay for them. That said, I don't think either of them would do much to augment the information found in those I mentioned earlier. Use the money to buy some more ammunition!

If it matters, I walked away from a copy of McHenry & Roper at yesterday's gun show. The seller wanted $14. Draw your own conclusions.

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

Thanks Jack!
Moritz