I looked at this old thread and wondered if anymore info had been gathered on the HE-M (and W marked) Victory models?

Help with Victory Model marking (pics)

The OP's pics are long gone but his revolver sounds a lot like the one I picked-up today marking wise. Mine does not have US Property markings on the top-strap either.

Nothing that would appear as a IDF marking that I can see.

What is different from what was discussed is the serial range. My serial is V359074....Well short of the serial range the W marked guns were said to be in.

LOL...It had a big honking set of home-made target stocks on it so I replaced them with a set of Brit made Cogwell & Harrision stocks till I get a set of VM stocks.

The HE-M is the mark of Hessen, Germany, as authorized by the Allied Control Council in Nov. 1945 for Allied weapons furnish to civilian Police units. 4590 revolvers and 2548 M1 Carbines. There is no direct correlation of serial numbers and these markings. The jury is still out on the "W" stamp, however detailed research by serious students of the Victory has uncovered evidence the the W may be the mark of the War Shipping Administration, established by Executive Order of the President on 2/7/42. The W mark is seen on many Victory Models originally issued to the US Maritime Commission guns, and on a large number of OSS guns that were obtained by the OSS through the Maritime Commission. The OSS guns were returned to the Army after WW2 and some were then issued to the civilian Police units in occupied Germany. Of course, there are a few guns with the W stamp that do not fit any of the accepted theories and the mark may have been applied after market. Ed.

So what you're saying Ed, is "it's a Hessen Wesson"?!? Sorry...had to.

Were these revolvers surplused-off by the Germans to US importers at some later date or returned to the Army like the Bavarian carbines were?

1srelluc, They were returned to the Army.
Jmace57, Yes, you just had a Hessen Wessen Lesson !
Ed.

There was a posting here quite a while back indicating that some numbers of the German Police-marked Victories were later sold off through U. S. Army Rod and Gun Clubs in Germany.

Interesting....

The guy that sold it said his father (passed) got it while he was in Germany some years after the war but as with most wartime guns they all seem to come with a "story" when purchased from a relative of a vet.

I am not that well read concerning VMs and as I did not notice any US property markings I just figured it was a stateside used/marked factory gun of some sort, politely nodded, bought the revolver, and discounted the story.

Heck, maybe he was correct.

Despite being incorrect the Brit grips look very nice on your revolver.

I would be interested to get a look at the big , honking set of homemade target stocks , just for fun.

LOL...Purrrdy aren't they.

Man that Wesson Hesson Lesson was a Blessen

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GARY
SWCA #2897, SWHF #436

The Lesson was give by Chesson.

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Don Mundell

I'm guessin'

Ohhhhhhhh ..... I understand why you wanted those grips off , and quickly!

Still like the Brit grips.

Thanks.

I sorta hit the "Victory Model Jackpot" today. My LGS had a decent set of VM stocks and a Craighead '43 holster.

The holster is pretty tired but serves for display. Not bad for $25.00 total to get it up to snuff.

Mention was made above of S&Ws sold in Germany by the various Military Post Exchange stores. If you collect S&W rifles of the period when the factory was selling bolt action rifles, many sold in Europe were chambered in various European metric calibers, not listed in the S&W catalogs of the period, which makes for an uncommon S&W to collect. Ed

Always glad to see an old thread given new life. In my quest to get that "perfect" Victory .38 M&P I have accumulated two revolvers with HE-M stamping on the back strap.


The first is a .38 special, 4" Victory, s/n V477114. It shipped 12/1943. Pretty rough shape but a good shooter.






and a .38 SW, 5" barrel Victory, s/n V650093, shipped 8/1944






Nice to learn I have two of the 4,590 revolvers after all of these years.

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Mike
S&WCA #3065

There were almost certainly quite a few less than 4,590 of the Victorys issued in Hessen and stamped as such.

The number comes from a single document found by James Mock in his M1 research and used by Tim Mullin in his book. It is a 1949 inventory for OMGUS of all handguns, not just S&W revolvers, then in Hessen police service, and does not break down the number of 4,590. By 1949 the US authorities had been supplementing the Victorys with other pistols; for example, I have documentation for West Berlin police getting 2000 FN 1922s in 1948, issued alongside their standard Victorys. So that number of 4,590 likely included a significant percentage of other types.

Even better.

__________________
Mike
S&WCA #3065