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03-08-2016, 11:59 AM
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Red Letter Victory with Theater Made Knife
I have been collecting a few Theater Made Knives to go with my US WWII handguns. I just picked up this USN Mark 1 Knife with and interesting handle to go with my Red Letter Victory Rig. [URL=http://s29.photobucket.com/user/Blockislander/media/Victory/IMG_9456_zpsyzq1mrrg.jpg.html] [/URL
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03-08-2016, 03:34 PM
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The red letter victory model is on my radar, need one to go with my military collection. The knife is outstanding!!
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George Jamison
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03-08-2016, 03:36 PM
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As you probably know, your USN knife is the WW2 era USN fighting knife, made by Camillus in NYC. Originally the handle was made of laminated leather washers. Often in WW2 these and other US issued knives had their leather handles replaced by scrap acrylic pieces from windows of downed aircraft, as your knife may have been. Sometime photos of wives, girl friends, etc. were placed under the clear acrylic. "Theater" made knives were done by both sides in the war and are interesting items of history. I worked in the Convair plant in San Diego part of the time in WW2 and traded salvaged scrap acrylic pieces from B-24 bombers to Marines and Sailors for Hersey bars, etc. unattainable for civilians during the war time rationing. The acrylic could be dyed different colors with nail polish, etc., resulting in colorful handles on knives and grip panels on Victory Models and Colt 45 autos. Ed.
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03-08-2016, 04:39 PM
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Thanks for the info Ed. I have picked up some of these interesting knives at gun shows whenever I see them for a reasonable price. I do also have a few Sweetheart Grips for the 1911's. It must have been interesting to work as you did to help the war effort in such a plant. This is not a S&W but an interesting combo.
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03-08-2016, 04:43 PM
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This knife has a girls picture. This is also a Navy marked Victory.
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03-08-2016, 04:53 PM
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For the first time in many years I saw a pair of .45 Sweetheart grips at the local gun show last weekend - just the grips, no gun. I think they were on display, not for sale, at least no price was marked on them. The woman under the grips looked too old to be a sweetheart, probably a mother.
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03-08-2016, 05:10 PM
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I love to find things at a gun show, but I have found that a lot of the good stuff gets sold online now. I did just picked up a pair of Sweetheart grips at at a favorite LGS, with no picture though. They are pretty hard to find with the original photos.
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03-08-2016, 08:01 PM
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What is a Red Letter Victory?
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03-08-2016, 08:14 PM
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Under the cylinder release it is written Property of U,S, Navy and for some reason it's colored in red.
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03-08-2016, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gjamison
Under the cylinder release it is written Property of U,S, Navy and for some reason it's colored in red.
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In addition to red paint, some engravings are known to be filled with white paint. Original? Who knows. It seems no one knows the story about the origin and purpose of this engraving, but it was definitely not done by S&W.
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03-08-2016, 08:49 PM
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These secondary markings were done at the Navy Yard at Mare Island and are legitimate WWII markings.
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03-08-2016, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwill1911
These secondary markings were done at the Navy Yard at Mare Island and are legitimate WWII markings.
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Interesting. I have never seen any indication of a specific connection of the engraved revolvers with Mare Island, except that one pre-Victory known to have the "red" engraving on the frame MAY have been shipped to Mare Island, but there are many revolvers which were shipped to MI . All other references I have seen to Mare Island revolvers, at least those used at Mare Island, mention only a N.Y.M.I.-xx or M.I.-xx (xx = number) stamping.
It is known that many Navy revolvers entered service at the Naval Supply Depot, Norfolk, VA, the Navy Yard, Mare Island, CA, and the Puget Sound Navy Yard, Bremerton, WA. In the days before the U. S. Navy property stamping began, it is possible that the engraving may have been done at all three of these locations. Or maybe not. As I said, the full story has yet to be told. Where did you get your information?
Last edited by DWalt; 03-08-2016 at 11:00 PM.
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03-08-2016, 11:24 PM
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With such questions I always go to Pate. He is probably not the last word, but should be the starting point. The Mare Island markings N.Y.M.I plus number were filled in white. The "PROPERTY OF U.S.NAVY" marking filled in red was initially applied to the early 1942 Navy-shipped guns without topstrap marking, but then inexplicably continued on guns with both Navy and US property stamps. He shows a double-marked Navy gun from 3/43 that shipped to USN Oakland. He provides no further details on any specific location limitations for the sideplate marking.
Last edited by Absalom; 03-08-2016 at 11:26 PM.
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03-09-2016, 12:15 AM
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BLOCKISLANDER, that is an interesting victory and knife. I have never heard of the red letter guns, the very reason I visit this sites, the knowledge that is freely shared. I especially like the 38 tracer cartridges in the ammo slide. I have collected US military knives for a few decades and have some that I would bet my last can of beans, that they were theater knives but there in no way of knowing for sure. When I was a youngster, the local surplus store had buckets full of Mark 1's and 2's for $5 your choice. My uncle bought about a dozen and on his lunch break he built very similar knives and gave them away as gifts. He must have built a dozen in the 1960's. I lost the one he gave me. He used the same materials, Plexiglas, brass, and aluminum. The soldier-sailor built knives were so common, but few were documented. And why would they. Your Mark 1, I would like to have in my collection. While Mark 3's gather much interest and high dollars. The Mark 1's are of particular interest to me. Thanks for sharing.
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03-09-2016, 12:23 AM
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I had a gentleman show me one this weekend. Only the third one I've ever held. I offered a trade and he said he would do it. Now I'm just waiting for his call.
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03-09-2016, 12:25 AM
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This is the first MK1 theater made knife that I have found so far so it followed me home. I'm not sure where they were made, but I am enjoying my small collection.
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03-09-2016, 12:28 AM
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This was the first Red Victory that I had seen also. I did sell another Victory to put together the funds to buy it as I'm a old working man.
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03-10-2016, 01:33 PM
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Nice pair and photo!
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04-02-2016, 04:45 AM
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Very nice! Thanks for sharing.
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04-02-2016, 07:46 AM
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Good information throughout. Thanks for the pictures. Nice set . . .
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04-02-2016, 03:53 PM
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You are welcome!
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04-02-2016, 06:14 PM
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04-02-2016, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sureshotbob
I've had one for several years now. I got it from a local gun shop. He got my Red Navy and several other regular marked Victory's from a local police dept. that got them from the govt. and had them in storage for a lot of years. The gun shop put in a bid and won.....
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Does your gun also have the topstrap stamping? It has a pretty high serial, which places it in mid-1943 (the one Pate shows is V261988 from 3/43) and would confirm what Pate wrote about the Navy continuing the red inscription practice regardless of any topstrap markings.
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04-02-2016, 07:00 PM
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I use to work with a WWII vet who flew in the South Pacific. He told me had made plexiglass grips for his 1911. He told me that one day a buddy borrowed it for a mission. He never saw the buddy or the 1911 again.
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04-02-2016, 07:14 PM
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blockislander,
Cool items and thanks for starting a very interesting thread.
I began working in Richmond, CA, on the south east side of San Francisco Bay across the bay and a little east from Mare Island in 1972. Worked with a few veterans
assigned to the Mare Island and Richmond ship yards during the heyday of "Dubya dubya II, the big one!" as they called it.
Many interesting stories of those hectic times. The Hercules powder plant was on the bay just up the shoreline from Richmond. About once a year
or so, the entire area surrounding the bay would be rocked by an explosion. After the first one, everyone instantly knew the powder plant went kaboom again,
and it wasn't a Japanese attack. They anxiously waited for news about the casualties from the plant and prayed it wasn't a friend or loved one.
The moth balled fleet upriver from the bay was huge in 1972 and a few remain to this day, greatly diminished over the years as one by one they were towed
to the Richmond shipyard to be cut up into scrap metal. The Japanese purchased and hauled it on ships that were not nearly as seaworthy as had been the naval vessels
that they carried as scrap metal back to Japan.
In the nearby Port of Richmond nice new Japanese ships returned that scrap metal to us in the form of shiny new Hondas, Toyotas, etc., that were a lot pricier than
what they paid for the old navy ships.
By the way; Mare Island was so named because an 1800s wealthy owner of the Vallejo Spanish land grant on the coast opposite the island (now the City of Vallejo),
lost a prized mare in a storm. Some months later the mare was discovered alive and well on the island and the overjoyed owner named it.....wait for it.......
Mare Island, and now, as they say, you know the rest of the story.
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Last edited by Hondo44; 04-02-2016 at 07:38 PM.
Reason: Added the "By the way"
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04-02-2016, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Absalom
Does your gun also have the topstrap stamping? It has a pretty high serial, which places it in mid-1943 (the one Pate shows is V261988 from 3/43) and would confirm what Pate wrote about the Navy continuing the red inscription practice regardless of any topstrap markings.
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No Navy marking on the top strap just on the sideplate it is marked with the flaming bomb and US property G.H.D.on the topstrap
Last edited by sureshotbob; 04-03-2016 at 08:51 AM.
Reason: added info
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04-03-2016, 08:18 AM
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My gun is Navy marked on the top strap.
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04-03-2016, 08:37 AM
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blockilander did you get my reply to your p/m?
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04-03-2016, 02:52 PM
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I just read it and will respond in a few mins. We are neighbors. HaHa!
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04-03-2016, 03:01 PM
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Thanks for the great info on Mare Island. I have also seen some guns marked Mare Island in white as these guns were.
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04-03-2016, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sureshotbob
No Navy marking on the top strap just on the sideplate it is marked with the flaming bomb and US property G.H.D.on the topstrap
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That fits. Beginning in approx. April 1943, the U.S. NAVY marking ceased as the Navy acquired all subsequent Victorys through Army Supply Program contracts which specified the same US property stamp (and got Col. Drewry's inspector initials) for all military Victorys regardless of destination.
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04-03-2016, 04:26 PM
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Somewhere in the upper SN V2xxxxx range (after the U. S. NAVY property stamping stopped at around V264000 in early 1943), the topstrap stamping was changed from UNITED STATES PROPERTY to the simpler U. S. PROPERTY for all military revolvers. The first Victory on my list showing the U. S. PROPERTY stamp is in the mid V280000 range, but it could well have begun somewhat earlier than that.
Last edited by DWalt; 04-03-2016 at 04:28 PM.
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