Help to identify a S&W 22 Handejector

vipermd · #1 07-05-2016, 09:31 PM

Info
1. Hand Ejector
2.SN# 361055- On the front of grip & face of cylinder. No model # on crane
3. 22 LR
4. 6 1/16" Bbl length
5. Hand Ejector Pre-war Adjustable rear sight, front sight is a marble 35-A Bead.
6. Strain Screw on front of grip strap.
7. 5 -Screw
I purchased this about 2 years ago, it will not cock DA, firing pin and housing are missing, as is the grip screw. I would like to repair/ have it repaired so I could use it. I have looked in Blue Book, SCSW # 2, and seem to be a bit more confused. Any assistance in identifying model, missing parts, when it was made, and approximate value so as to assess how much money I should invest to make it functional. Thank You.

Art Doc · #2 07-05-2016, 09:37 PM

Non expert opinion is a 22/32 I frame. Is it me or is the metal pitted? That cannot be fixed.

merl67 · #3 07-05-2016, 09:54 PM

Strain screw looks like it is backed out a few turns this can cause problems with the action. Check it to see if it can be screwed in until it is tight.

merl67 · #4 07-05-2016, 10:01 PM

This thread might be of interest Bekeart models and .22/32 HFT's

bruce5781 · #5 07-05-2016, 11:08 PM

I was going to say 22/32 Heavy Frame Target, but those stocks are throwing me. Made pre-1922. Grip screws are $12.95 a pair on ebay.

Regards,
Bruce

Speedo2 · #6 07-06-2016, 12:01 AM

Stocks (...grips) from a pre-war Reg-Police will fit the HFT; same rebated rear frame. Great for small hands. -S2

vipermd · #7 07-06-2016, 01:22 AM

Thank You every one. There is a little pitting on surface which is actually worse on photo, not a concern. 1 1/2 turns on the strain screw took it to lock no change in hammer movement in DA, but single action is a whisper. I will order a set of screws today- Thank You. I have rather large hands but the 22 lr is just going to be pure fun/nostalgia. With it's SN# I considered Bekeart, it is about 14 before one that they identified in the thread. I will contact him and pass along the info and photos.

Does any one have any ideas for firing pin & assembly.

Thank You,

vipermd · #8 07-06-2016, 01:29 AM

I checked ebay they have a few screws- I will have to figure out what the thread is in the grip. Be Safe,

Hondo44 · #9 07-06-2016, 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vipermd

I checked ebay they have a few screws- I will have to figure out what the thread is in the grip. Be Safe,

The screw thread is .095" x 48 very close to 3 x 48 but Smith pre war screw thread diameter can be slightly small until they standardized to national screw sizes in 1945.

But there are different length for different style grips; your Regulation Police style grips use in the range of .960" to 1.00".

Hondo44 · #10 07-06-2016, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vipermd

Info
1. Hand Ejector
2.SN# 361055- On the front of grip & face of cylinder. No model # on crane
3. 22 LR
4. 6 1/16" Bbl length
5. Hand Ejector Pre-war Adjustable rear sight, front sight is a marble 35-A Bead.
6. Strain Screw on front of grip strap.
7. 5 -Screw
I purchased this about 2 years ago, it will not cock DA, firing pin and housing are missing, as is the grip screw. I would like to repair/ have it repaired so I could use it. I have looked in Blue Book, SCSW # 2, and seem to be a bit more confused. Any assistance in identifying model, missing parts, when it was made, and approximate value so as to assess how much money I should invest to make it functional. Thank You.

Your ".22/32 Heavy Frame Target-Model of 1911" is built on the 'I' frame and from the 1st quarter of 1923 period.

It would only be a Bekeart Model if a S&W Historical Foundation letter confirms it originally shipped to Bekeart, that's the lowest category of Bekeart collectability. The highest being those shipped from the original shipments about a decade earlier.

In 1920 the .32 amd .38 I frame Regulation Police style grips without medallions were shipped on the .22/32 Targets as standard equipment. The larger 2 screw target stocks were an option. They will fit your gun.

By change order dated Aug.29,1923 the sq RP stocks were changed back to target stocks as standard, and the Paine bead front sight w/U-Notch rear changed to Patridge front/Square Notch rear.

The firing pin, spring, and bushing are the pre war style ROUND FIRING PIN with one retaining pin:

The front single pin retains the firing pin bushing in the recoil shield and the firing pin is a round style including a fully round front striking tip. Used on the Pre war 22/32 Heavy Frame Targets and Kit Guns. Discontinued in 1953, and replaced with a rectangular firing pin. However, the round configuration returned later c. #70000, Oct. 1960 with the .22/32 J frame introduction.

In other words, from 1960 to the current style they are the same as yours, so just get new parts.

You'll need a smith to look at why the hammer doesn't function in DA, or just shoot it in single action mode which is what most use anyway, unless it's too much of a hair trigger. Used hammers can be found but are scarce, however there's substitutions that will work as well, if needed.

It's in the $300 - 350 ball park when working properly with its finish condition. Maybe $2 - 250 as is.

Good luck and enjoy!

vipermd · #11 07-06-2016, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hondo44

Your ".22/32 Heavy Frame Target-Model of 1911" is built on the 'I' frame and from the 1st quarter of 1923 period.
It's in the $300 - 350 ball park when working properly with its finish condition. Maybe $2 - 250 as is.
Good luck and enjoy!

Thank You for the info and assistance. I now know how to move forward towards and enjoy this revolver. Be Safe,

DWalt · #12 07-07-2016, 04:48 PM

The closest SN on my list is 3605xx which shipped in 2/24. BUT I also show one having a higher SN than yours which shipped in 1921. Not having the "MADE IN U.S.A." frame stamp would suggest yours was made prior to mid-1922.

Hondo44 · #13 07-07-2016, 08:31 PM

Although the "MADE IN USA" was ordered in May 1922, it took 6 months or so before guns so stamped were actually completed. I show no stamped guns in my database that were shipped prior to the 1st quarter of 1923.

Doesn't mean there weren't of course, but with that serial #, even though not stamped, it's highly unlikely it was completed before May 1922 or even by the end of 1922.

asics119 · #14 05-28-2017, 12:57 PM

Hello All,
New to this forum and I have an old S&W 22 I would like to know if anyone can give me info on.
Type Hand Ejector 22-32 heavy frame target (Bekeart I believe)
Ser.# 472430 under barrel, on front strap & on cylinder
CTG .22
Sights post war adjustable
Strain Screw yes
Frame Screws 5
Ivory Grips w/ single side screw
Super sensitive trigger that shoots on slight touch.
Any info is appreciated
Thank you

Wiregrassguy · #15 05-28-2017, 01:48 PM

Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass! If you read through the old thread above, you probably know you have a .22/32 Heavy Frame Target revolver from mid-1920's. The sights look to be pre-war adjustable to me...or, were you referring to WWI? Also, the stocks appear to be post-war Jay Scott faux pearls. I suggest getting some CLP and bronze wool or a copper Chore Boy and knocking the rust off it before it pits.

asics119 · #16 05-28-2017, 10:01 PM

I'm don't know on the sights, but looking at web sights, I thought that is what looked closest. It has a windage, left-right, adjustment screw on the right side.The revolver is from my wife's family, she thinks her grandfather, and I'm trying to find out what I can about it, if anyone knows if it is all original and what it is worth. Were the stocks you mentioned after market or S&W? I never sell any of my firearms and they will be passed to my 3 sons. Shot it today, first a sub round and than target rounds. Shoots great but has a super light trigger. Hardly have to put any pressure on it. Great target pull but you have to be careful, as with any firearm.
Steve

murphydog · #17 05-28-2017, 10:30 PM

Aside from the stocks, it appears original. If you look at post #5 above, those are the stocks that would have originally been on the gun - checkered walnut, "extension" or Target style, no medallions.

It should have had a 4-5 (?) lb single action pull from the factory. Depending on how the current trigger was made so light, it may be as simple as changing some internal springs or as difficult as installing a new hammer and trigger to make the pull heavier.

With an original set of stocks, and if the finish/metal is not pitted under what appears to be rust, I would guess it would be worth in the $600-700 range. A letter of authenticity from the S & W Historical Foundation would be a nice addition to its history. Hope this is helpful.

Hondo44 · #18 05-28-2017, 11:06 PM

asics119,

Your cyl is not made for High velocity ammo because the cyl chambers are not recessed. So stick to standard velocity .22s.

HV ammo came out in ~1930 and S&W recessed the chambers for it because the case rim can split and let gas escape sideways.

The rear sight is the pre war style, one screw on each side. So to adjust, you loosen both screws to adjust the sight. Turn the screw that will move the rear blade in the direction you need to go, and then tighten both screws.

asics119 · #19 05-28-2017, 11:19 PM

There is no pitting and the rust is very light but I will clean it. The blueing is almost perfect on the the right side but it does have some loss, no scratches, on the left, cylinder release side, as shown in the pics. I also took out a 7 shot H&R 22 special from her grandfather as well and shot that too with my sons. That has much more blue loss but no scratches either. These revolvers have been in my closet since 1992 and I an now getting interested in these old firearms. The S&W is in much nicer shape. I also found a number, 73972, stamped on what I believe is the yoke when I opened the cylinder. How do you get it lettered? I tried clicking the links I found on this site but they say page cannot be found. Thank you all for your help. As a side note, every time I log into this site it says it's unsecured and password and at risk. Is that normal?
Steve

Hondo44 · #20 05-28-2017, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speedo2

Stocks (...grips) from a pre-war Reg-Police will fit the HFT; same rebated rear frame. Great for small hands. -S2

vipermd's 22/32 has the reg police stocks with rebated grip frame back strap. Those were only standard on that model from after WW I until 1923, when the 2 screw target stocks were reinstated as standard and the rebated back strap was eliminated.

asics119 · #21 05-29-2017, 12:19 AM

Thanks Hondo, I thought my serial dated around 1925 or 6 but the current stocks are 1 screw, if that means anything. I would be interested in the correct stocks if someone had them. After looking at it again the really is no rust except very light surface that you can see better in the camera then by eye. The fame is glass smooth The cylinder release side has some blue loss on the frame around the cylinder, I guess due to that is the side all the action happens.
Steve

murphydog · #22 05-29-2017, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asics119

There is no pitting and the rust is very light but I will clean it. The blueing is almost perfect on the the right side but it does have some loss, no scratches, on the left, cylinder release side, as shown in the pics. I also took out a 7 shot H&R 22 special from her grandfather as well and shot that too with my sons. That has much more blue loss but no scratches either. These revolvers have been in my closet since 1992 and I an now getting interested in these old firearms. The S&W is in much nicer shape. I also found a number, 73972, stamped on what I believe is the yoke when I opened the cylinder. How do you get it lettered? I tried clicking the links I found on this site but they say page cannot be found. Thank you all for your help. As a side note, every time I log into this site it says it's unsecured and password and at risk. Is that normal?
Steve

It is at Smith & Wesson Historical Foundation - Letter Process - Insuring that the rich history of Smith & Wesson will continue for generations to come. Don't know about the password issue but I'd send a message to the Forum moderators just in case.

For the rust, use mostly gun oil and very little abrasion; too much scrubbing will remove the bluing.

Hondo44 · #23 05-29-2017, 03:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asics119

Thanks Hondo, I thought my serial dated around 1925 or 6 but the current stocks are 1 screw, if that means anything. I would be interested in the correct stocks if someone had them. After looking at it again the really is no rust except very light surface that you can see better in the camera then by eye. The fame is glass smooth The cylinder release side has some blue loss on the frame around the cylinder, I guess due to that is the side all the action happens.
Steve

Is the back strap rebated like this?

If yes, the Reg Police style one screw stocks as shown in post #1 are correct.
If not, the two screw target stocks as shown in post #5 are correct.

Wiregrassguy · #24 05-29-2017, 10:49 AM

Steve,
Check at a local gun store for Blue Wonder cleaner. It will remove the rust without affecting the bluing (which is a different form of rust). You don't have to scrub with Blue Wonder.

The 73972 number is called an "assembly number" because it was used during manufacturing to keep hand fitted parts together when they were re-assembled after finishing. It is not a serial number.

The browser warning about the site using an unsecured password is normal. I use Firefox and it recently was updated to give that warning at a site that does not use https (encrypted http vs. non-secure http). Any website that uses http exposes your user name and password because it is sent without encryption (security). Just make sure you are not using the same password to log in here that you use for banking, PayPal, credit cards, etc.

Wiregrassguy · #25 05-29-2017, 11:21 AM

You may have problems finding period correct grips for your HFT. Your grip frame is the small I frame round butt. Practically no grip manufacturer makes replicas anymore. But, Tombstone Gun Grips will make grips for you. If you decide to go this way, I suggest getting the top break extended grips 22a. They can be ordered in a variety of colors.

asics119 · #26 05-29-2017, 12:15 PM

Thank you all again for sharing your knowledge. Again, There is no rust I can see looking at the revolver. It seem the camera puts a brown color to the worn blueing which is really only on the left side. I think I should just oil it as I have been since I have had it, at least once a year. I bought a set of stocks a month ago on e-bay thinking they were correct with the S&W silver medallion on them. There is also a # stamped on the right side, 102738. I show them in the new pics. As you can see in the pics they drop below the bottom of the frame. Is that what you refer to as extended stocks? Mine does not seem to have the rebated back strap so does that mean it should have a 2 screw stock? The single action trigger pull is probably about 1/4 to 1/2 pound, if that. I saw a 22-32 listed once that the seller called a touch trigger target model. Is there such a thing? I printed the form for the letter but does anyone know if it can be filled out online, pay by paypal and just upload pics? Again, Thank you all for for your help and knowledge.
Steve

asics119 · #27 05-29-2017, 12:18 PM

Here are the remaining pics as I could only upload 5
Steve

asics119 · #28 05-29-2017, 12:29 PM

The Ivory Stocks that were on the revolver say on both sides " Chief Special Short RD But Converted to SQ Butt" It also has the #37 on both sides.
Steve

asics119 · #29 05-29-2017, 12:43 PM

One last thing. Only the last three digits on the serial # are on the face of the cylinder. Not the whole # as I said in the first post.
Steve

Wiregrassguy · #30 05-29-2017, 01:27 PM

Steve,
The Jay Scott #37 stocks are made for a Baby Chiefs Special which has the smaller grip that is the same as on your gun and round butt .22's, .32's, and .38 S&W revolvers using the I frame. The Scott's are faux mother of pearl but they also made faux ivory and plain wood stocks. The wooden magna stocks you bought are for a J frame gun and are not extension stocks. They are supposed to fit to the frame and not have a space between the panels. You can use them but they would look better being cut down to fit the frame. Period correct extension stocks are even longer and fully enclose the grip frame except for some of the front and back straps. J frame target grips will fit and fully enclose the entire grip frame.

Perhaps Jim or Gary have pictures of the round to square butt target stocks. All I have are the rebated grips for the Regulation Police revolver. That is the top gun in the picture below. The other gun is a .32 Hand Ejector with Jay Scott Regulation Police stocks. Your gun may have come with stocks like the RP. They are period correct for your gun.

BTW, I see 6 digits on the face of your cylinder.

asics119 · #31 05-29-2017, 01:52 PM

Thank you Guy. My mistake. You are correct. It has the whole serial# on the cylinder. I was thinking about the H&R 22 special, that only has the last 3#s on the cylinder. Both seem to be built in the mid to late 20's. Filling out the LOA request form I also noticed, on the bottom of the barrel flat, the S&W does have the letter B stamped to the left of the serial #, if that means anything. My wife likes the pearl stocks and they do look nice on it. Being it was her grand fathers, I understand the sentimental attachment to them for her, but I would love to find the correct stocks myself. Especially if the rest of the revolver is original.
Thanks fro your reply again.
Steve

Wiregrassguy · #32 05-29-2017, 02:00 PM

Oh I meant to say that you will have to mail the the letter request because they don't do PayPal or or digital payment system. It takes about a month to get a reply. Well try the classified ads here to see if someone has a correct set of stocks. They also sometimes show up on eBay and on gunbroker.com. Good luck!

Guy

asics119 · #33 06-17-2017, 09:26 AM

Received the letter. It was shipped 3/13/28 from the factory to Captain W.J. Davis of the NY Central Railroad Company in Buffalo NY. to be sold to Patrolman E.F. Downey. It probably came into the family through my wife's great uncle who we believed work in Buffalo for the railroad.worked there. It had checkered walnut non medallion square butt extension stocks. I think that mean the 2 screw extension grips. Please let me know if I am wrong. I have been watching for them but they seem impossible to find. I thought I solve the mystery when I noticed the H&R 22 Special had the same exact looking pattern on the stocks but they are only 1 screw and when I switched them they didn't quite fit as they were short at the top of the grip and that allowed the grips to move on the frame. I thought for sure the grips were switched. If anyone knows where I can find these grips I would appreciate it. Thank you for all your help.
Steve

asics119 · #34 06-17-2017, 09:30 AM

The H&R Grip is 2 crew , not 1 screw but doesn't fit right.
It sure looks like the right stock for the HFT.

murphydog · #35 06-17-2017, 10:00 AM

Cool history. Was Downey related to your wife's family in any way?

Yes, the double screw, longer Target stocks would be correct (and difficult to find, as you already know). Try posting a Wanted to Buy ad here and note "without medallions", which would be the 1920s decade style.

rct269 · #36 06-17-2017, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hondo44

asics119,

Your cyl is not made for High velocity ammo because the cyl chambers are not recessed. So stick to standard velocity .22s.

HV ammo came out in ~1930 and S&W recessed the chambers for it because the case rim can split and let gas escape sideways.

The rear sight is the pre war style, one screw on each side. So to adjust, you loosen both screws to adjust the sight. Turn the screw that will move the rear blade in the direction you need to go, and then tighten both screws.

As an aside, the offending high velocity .22 Long Rifle ammo came into being in the early '20's-----concurrent with S&W's development work on the Straight Line Single Shot pistol. It came from Remington as I recall. All the players set out to solve the problem. Some of them, those who had been to Problem Solving School, determined and worked on the real problem---split rims. Others worked on dealing with the results---hot gas and brass particles flying around. The Remington folks, who had been to Problem Solving School, stopped using cheap brass in favor of the high priced spread---and the (real) problem was solved----no more split cases. Others came up with recessed cylinders to help contain/redirect the hot gas and brass particles flying around---and to make the resulting guns more difficult to clean. They heralded their advances as a great step forward in firearms safety. Others allowed as how it looked more like a band aid in search of a wound (that had been healed).

Regardless, you still should use the standard velocity ammo because you will almost certainly find it to be more accurate.

Ralph Tremaine

asics119 · #37 06-17-2017, 10:47 AM

Thank you all for replying. I don't think Downey was related but she had a great uncle who also worked for the railroad and thinks it may have come from him. We got it when her uncle passed away about 15 years ago, along with the H&R 22 special and 3 other 32's. If you look at the pic I posted, the H&R looks to have the S&W grips on it but they didn't quite fit when I changed them out. It seems to short on the top not quite reaching the frame so you can see light above the grip top and it move on the frame even when tightened. I thouth for sure he had just switched stocks. The Colt is a 1916 and the S&W & H&R revolvers are 1928 so I only shoot standard velocity out of all of them. I will post about the stock in the WTB section. Thanks for the replies. Steve