I just received .22 Masterpiece #K44958 from the 90 year old gentleman who bought it new. Excellent condition, especially since he shot it regularly for the past 60-something years. The barrel has been shortened to 3 3/4". He says that the dealer sent several K22's back to the factory to be altered when new, which was how he bought it. The crown looks correct, but the barrel stamping has not been re-centered and there are no date stamps or rework markings on the frame or barrel.
Letter has been requested, which will be followed by SWHF search.
I had one in a similar style with the partridge front sight but it was set slightly further down on the rib, I saw another with the front sight in the same position that was believed to be factory. The roll mark on my gun was centered though.
That would be a very low number for a CM. Here's another picture showing the correct location of the barrel markings (K193447). Your revolver is a very nice cut-down 6" K22.
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Cy
Last edited by hardscrabble; 08-13-2016 at 01:42 PM.
I have no doubt it was a pre-17 cut down before the Combat Masterpiece was readily available negating the need for such surgery (you know I want to say butchery but I'm trying to be nice). I wonder why 3.75"? A 4" tube would have made more sense. A 5" barrel would have been more interesting.
I think it unlikely (but not impossible) S&W did the work. Date stamp for service work present? That's always the story from sellers. Much more likely the original owner had it cut down by a smith and the 90 year old thinks he bought it new. Many, many times new members post on the forum that they swear they bought a gun new in XXXX year but the serial is from several years earlier or later. Memories get faulty over time. I can understand a 90 year old not recalling the details of this acquisition completely correctly.
The letter came and my gun was one of a shipment of 20 identical guns to a Police Supply place in California. These guns were the advance version of what became the K22 CM.
RdrBill,
I remember when you posted Your Revolver & thought I'd saved your Letter & Photos to my files...Although now I can't seem to locate them!! I wonder if they somehow got deleted because I also intended to post the Link to Your Thread when the Letter arrived...Although given all the Photos are gone in that Thread as well...I didn't!!
Even so...I was able to find a similar Letter & Photos about another one of these "Pre"-Pre-Model .22 Combat Masterpieces to show the OP how that Letter reads...(See Attached Letter & Pics)!!
Now there is one difference I did note concerning the one Red9 posted...His hasn't had the Caliber Markings or Smith & Wesson centered on the Barrel...As both Yours as well as the one I posted Photos of did!!
Although being the OP's is earlier...I don't believe that would stop me from requesting a Letter to see what comes back!! Especially so...Given the lack of any Rework Stamps, Etc. is a possible indication this wasn't done on those ordered earlier if the Barrel was cut back from a 6" Revolver already existing in inventory to fill a Customer's Request...Just My Opinion!!
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Masterpiece
Last edited by Masterpiece; 08-14-2016 at 05:32 PM.
Reason: Correct Previous Info!!
As the first CM had a SN of K76000, SN K44958 is unlikely to have been shipped from the factory with a 4" barrel, and almost certainly started its life with a 6" barrel, especially so considering the position of the barrel stampings. So it is most probably a pre-Model 17 with a shortened barrel - which well could have been shortened later at the factory (but not necessarily). If so, that would usually be shown by the grip frame stamping, which is not there. The SN would date its likely shipment from 10-11/1948. Only a letter would nail down how and when it was shipped.
The OP's gun has a 3.5" not a 4" tube. Nobody would cut a 4" down .5". It was obviously a 6" gun that was cut and that would not be a CM as they were not offered with 6" barrels. I still wonder why the owner chose 3.5" instead of 4".
The barrel has been shortened to 3 3/4". He says that the dealer sent several K22's back to the factory to be altered when new, which was how he bought it. The crown looks correct, but the barrel stamping has not been re-centered and there are no date stamps or rework markings on the frame or barrel.
What if, what if the previous owner only theorized that the gun dealer sent back K-22 target masterpiece revolvers to be cut down. What if in actuality, the dealer CUSTOM ORDERED them this way? Perhaps the dealer said "these short barrel K-22s are factory custom" to the previous owner and the previous owner then simply assumed that they were sent back vs. shipped in this configuration?
This would explain the markings not being centered, and the lack of rework stamps present on the gun. S&W likely would have taken finished revolvers from inventory, cut their barrels, moved the sight back, and sent them out like that, to fill the order, IMO.
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}-----Jim----->
~SWCA #2732~
Last edited by Göring's S&W; 08-15-2016 at 12:27 AM.
If there is any reasonable suspicion that they were shipped in this barrel length then certainly they should be lettered to confirm the original configuration. But I suspect the odds on that being the case are pretty much nil.
What ever happened to "Never say never" when it concerns things done by S&W?
OP, good luck to you, sir, I hope your letter confirms it was shipped as a 3 1/2" K22.
In these cases with barrel originality concerns, the first thing to look for on the suspected modified/changed part is Serv Dept stamps; on barrels they would follow the serial #.
DIAMONDS: were stamped on factory replaced parts or heel of grip frame on left side for refinish followed by letters, sometimes in a rectangle or diamond, with an R (for refinish) or S (for standard blue finish) followed by B (blue), or N (nickel), on 'heel' of left side of grip frame. On barrels with extractor shrouds, these stamps will occasionally also be found on the back end of the shroud and only be seen with cylinder swung out.
A Diamond can also mean:
Parts modified by the factory on a new gun like a shortened barrel BEFORE originally being shipped can have a diamond stamp sometimes with an S inside indicating service dept. work, but w/o a rework date like guns returned to the factory!
It can mean a gun that had service work done, just like the Star was used.
"Parts on Hand"- i.e. replacement parts sold out the door.
There might also be letters in diamonds like <S> (silver), <G> (gold), or a P (plated) with a circle.
These are just rules of thumb, not at all meant to be an all inclusive list, and often lack consistency (especially size of digits) like anything from S&W.
O STAMP: An O on the grip frame, barrel, etc., for the ‘Outside Repair Dept.’ (and preceded the S stamp, which from observations began late in 1953).
“It is the mark of the repair department. The Service Department at Smith & Wesson was for a period of time referred to as Outside Repair Department to separate it from the repairs that were being done in house. On new revolvers that did not pass inspection and had not been sold, these revolvers are recycled. It was important that they get returned to the right location as they get mixed in the process. That is why you find them with different markings. I hope that this helps, Roy”
In previous comments, Roy has stated that when an order came in for one gun with a special option like different barrel length, lanyard swivel on the butt, etc., if that configuration was not in inventory, the factory would not build a gun just for that order. They would always modify a gun in inventory by sending it to the Service (or Outside Repair) Dept because it was faster and easier, than disrupting the regular assembly procedure.
That’s why we see pre war guns ordered with a lanyard ring that didn’t normally come with a ring, drilled thru the serial # on the butt, and the serial # restamped on the left side of the grip frame! Post war guns all had serial numbers stamped off center, maybe for that reason.
For example: 5” barrels are scarce, therefore I suspect all of them went to the Outside repair dept to have the 5” barrels installed on unsold guns in inventory with standard barrel lengths. Therefore stamped with the O or later, stamped with an S. Unless it was a large order for a police dept of say, 30 guns all with 5” barrels, then all the guns in the order were built from scratch thru the normal assembly process, and would not be stamped with O or S.
R STAMP: “The "R" indicates an “in house” rework of the revolver [on a gun that never shipped and therefore would not have a date stamp or star as opposed to rework on a customer gun]. Found on guns in inventory and not sold before World War II, reconditioned, and updated often after WW II before the factory could sell it.” Roy Jinks
S STAMP: An S (replaced the O) on the grip frame, barrel, etc., usually means 'Service Dept.' and was added when the factory fixed cosmetic or mechanical problems found on completed guns. S let the bluing dept. know that it needed to be returned to Service instead of the Fitters like the other ~200 barrels or frames that they blued with it. Parts were blued in large batches.
OTHER S USAGES: on a barrel following the serial # most likely stands for Service, as in Service Dept. An S inside a Diamond usually stands for "Service Dept".
Very interesting. I have always wanted to have a 6" K-22 cut down to 5" with a gold beed front sight installed but the only one I have right now is a really nice condition K-22 from 1948 that I don't want to cut. I think a 5" would be a perfect length and look cool.
I searched the archives and found no follow-up posts about this gun. I bet many of us would like to hear from the OP what he learned from the letter that was requested.
Just as a footnote, all K-22s with serial numbers between K35xxx and K55xxx (10K on either side of the revolver under discussion) with shipping dates known to me were shipped in the last five months of 1948.
I believe the lowest known serial number on a verified 4-inch factory original K-22 is K75510. That gun was one of a shipment of 20 identical units that went to Sacramento, CA in May of 1950. All those guns had a Patridge front sight. To my knowledge, the lowest serial number on a standard-configuration Pre-18 (i.e., with Baughman front sight) is K87210.
Since the revolver under discussion here has clearly been modified, my inclination is to call it a "virtual Pre-18" or even "post-distribution prototype." But that's just me.
I have to agree with you. The Op's gun may very well be one of the earliest if not the first factory supplied short barrel K22. I just don't see any red flags that the modification was done other than by the factory. And because there is almost always some telltale detail of non-factory work.
Quite possibly the OP no longer owns the gun but received an offer for the gun he could not refuse, from someone who agreed with the premise that it is factory original (or saw a procured letter confirming it).
Other than someone requesting a letter for the OP's #K44958 I doubt we'll ever know at this late date.
My apologies for not following up. The gun lettered as a 6" as expected. It shipped to Bob Smith Sporting Goods, Boston, on 10/18/48. No further information from SWHF.
When they came up with the Combat Masterpiece .22 I wish they had left the Patridge front sight like this one has...much clearer sight picture than the ramps they put of them.... But I understand the CM was made to be a holster gun and they put the ramp on to lessen holster damage...
Something to keep in mind when faced with what appears to be the inexplicable, or at least unlikely from S&W are these words of wisdom from Roy Jinks: "They would do anything anybody would pay them to do."
My initial reaction to these words was they sounded an awful lot like, "I do so hope you and your incessant, sophomoric questions will go away and leave me alone.(!!!!)"----sort of along the lines of, "I don't know."---------or "Ask your mother." As time passed, and I kept digging, I came to see those words meant exactly what they said-------and life became a lot simpler.
A Pre Pre Model 18 .22 Combat Masterpiece?
Sal
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