I'm bidding on the this pistol and think it's a .32 Hand Ejector 1st Model. It looks like it's in poor (or worse) condition, but it will make an interesting addition to my collection. If the front sight is original, it may even be the target model.

These are the only pictures I have. If I win, I'll post more.

Interesting old piece, and your identification is correct; it is a Model 1896 Hand Ejector, also called First Model. However, it's not a target model; those have a different rear sight, on yours it looks standard. And that front sight looks decidedly non-standard, although details are hard to make out.

I agree with Absalom.

The front sight should be the typical 1/2 round blade like this:



A true target model:

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Definitely not a target model then. Still an interesting development milestone. Wish me luck.

On another note, would "standard" I-Frame grips work for this revolver?

David

I don't think I'd bid too high on it in that condition. You are probably aware that all Model 1896 revolvers are considered as being antiques by BATFE. I don't know what NY considers an antique, if anything.

Less than $100 so far.

New York doesn't consider any cartridge firearm an antique by BATFE definition.

One of the many reasons I'm hoping to move.

David

I won the auction. After buyer's premium and sales tax I should be in to this pistol for $70.

Hopefully I'll pick her up next week and get some more pictures posted soon thereafter.

Now to find some grips...

David

Sir, you did well for $70. It does represent a period in manufacturing that is epic. I would have sprung on that price. Now, the search for some grips.
You will be looking at a lot of shows. Very nice snag.

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Mike 2796
SoFo Bunch member

Regarding grips, its my understanding that this revolver takes "standard" I-Frame grips.

Does anyone have confirmation of this?

Thanks.

David

Technically and literally they're correct because it chambers a modern cartridge that's readily available.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Jim,

According to BATFE, any firearm manufactured prior to January 1, 1899 is classified as an antique and does not fall under the same rules as "modern" firearms. New York State does not make that distinction.

David

David:

I don't know whether this matters to the New York situation, but the BATFE general rule is not relevant in case of the Model 1896 because we have documentation in form of an official letter from them that declares all guns of this model to be antiques regardless of when they were assembled. This came in correspondence between BATFE and the S&W historian. The documents have been posted here; maybe someone else here remembers where to find them .

There's no standard I frame grips;

1. The right size for your M1896 are rd butt I and J frame grips (same size) up to the Models of 1953 New I and new J frame grips.

2. The pre war I frame sq butt grips from 1917 and post war grips up to the Models of 1953 will work with just a slight bit of wood removed from the grips inner back strap.
Regulation Police I frame square butt grips:



This shows special grip frame for Reg Police grips; notice the notched area on the bottom half of the grip frame backstrap:



Modified RP grips to fit round butt:



3. These 2 screw extension target stocks will fit all pre 1953 I frames:



4. Post 1953 I and J frame grips (also the same size) are 1/8" too long but can easily be trimmed without affecting the checkering field.

Also this opens up many more late model options as shown below:

Targets:




Early combat stocks w/medallions and smooth:







There’s also these combats, checkered:



Or smooth:







And these:



Aftermarket that enclose the butt will work well:



In addition to this forum's classified section, grips can be found on E-bay and Gunbroker.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Even though we know BATFE officially accepts it as an antique, that doesn't get it around the "antique that fires available ammunition" BATFE rule.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

You're correct, although it's apparently not the BATFE rule that matters, but this parallel wording in NY law I just came across:

"An "antique firearm" is defined as any unloaded muzzle-loading pistol or revolver with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system, or a pistol or revolver that uses fixed cartridges that are no longer available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade. NY Penal Law § 265.00(14)."

CA has the same wording in its penal law, which IIRC was lifted from Fed Law in case Fed Law was relaxed in the future. (As we know, state law can go farther than and does take precedent over Fed law.)

But I could be mistaken that the wording is in the Fed Law currently or if it ever was. It may be a clause shared between 'gun control' states.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Jim,

Thanks for the overview of grip options. I think I have a set or two of J frame grips in my parts box. I'll have to see how they fit.

Regarding New York State Firearms and Weapons laws, don't even try to make sense of them. For example, In NYS law, firearm means a handgun not a long gun. Long guns are specifically referenced as rifles and shotguns.

David

That applies only to "Replicas" of pre-1899 guns, not original pre-1899 antiques:

" (B) any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica --

(i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or

(ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade."

I was able to pick up my pistol today. Condition is pretty grimy and I've got her in the ultrasonic cleaner right now. Disassembly wasn't that different from a more modern S&W. Although the trigger return spring pinned to the grip frame is interesting.

Serial number is 4984 so I'm guessing first or second year of production.

As soon as she's cleaned up and re-assembled I'll post pictures.

Thanks.

David

As promised, here are the pictures. She's wearing a pair of of J-Frame grips I had in the parts box.











She may look a bit rough, but I hope I look half as good at around 120 years old.

Lots of nasty gunk in her innards. But half an hour in the ultrasonic cleaner, followed by a soak in mineral spirits, finished up with a good scrub with 0000 steel wool and a toothbrush worked wonders. I should have taken before pictures.

David

That's great for $70!

Could you show a close-up of the front sight?

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Not too shabby. The post 1953 I/J frame grips work well for the time being. A little sanding at the butt and those will be the correct length for pre 1953 I frame grips back to 1896 & J frame grips back to 1950.

That was someone's favorite shooter a long time ago. I wonder if the grips were robbed from it because they were Mother of Pearl and were kept by a former owner or sold separately to realize a better overall sale price for gun and grips.

Looks like the front sight may have been fashioned to rock back and forth with too different height blades for two different ranges.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Just to add a detail to the response from my brother-in-arms, Hondo44, many of the early I-frame revolvers wore black, hard rubber grips. These are now being reproduced by a couple of manufacturers using a durable black epoxy material. While the wood grips you used look good, the black rubber style would also be a good option. BTW, IMHO you stole that gun, CONGRATULATIONS!

Froggie

As Green Frog suggested, I looked for reproduction grips and found this website has a S&W section: handgungrips.com.

I believe the grips I want are listed as "S & W Hand Ejector .32 Revolver Reproduction Replacement Grip Black S10" for $29.95 and a Universal Hardware Kit (escutcheons and screw) for $5.95.

Did the old rubber grips deteriorate over time? Some of the gunk I found stuck to the grip frame sides may have been left by someone trying to remove the old grips.

And as requested, here's a close up of the right and left sides of the front sight:


Thanks for the input.

David

Sorry, but those stocks hurt my eyes. I love the old 1st Model 32 Hand Ejectors and, unless Ivory, Pearl or target stocks were special ordered, they all came with black hard rubber "standard" I frame round butt stocks. This model is an important development for S&W, being the first solid frame revolver built by the company. Just under 20,000 were made.

All Model 1896 revolvers are antiques - period. All pre-1899 manufactured guns are also antiques regardless of caliber or availability. California and New York have more restrictive laws that over-ride the BATF regulations.

One other comment on your revolver. Someone has replaced the ejector rod knob at some point in time. For comparisons to original Model 1896s, I have added a couple of photos below. Also, you can find half-moon front sights and replace that highly modified sight if you want. They were simply held in place by one pin that would have gone through the rib, where the center screw is now inserted. Replica I frame round butt stocks are available, as well as originals are often found on ebay.

Attached Images

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Gary
SWCA 2515

The original hard rubber stocks are made of Gutta Percha, and they do not deteriorate. They are known to break if dropped however.

That front sight is not the factory sight but pretty unique and clever nonetheless, and appears to be adjustable for height. If you loosen the middle screw, it appears that it will pivot so the rear bump will adjust lower.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

I think I found reproduction grips. Would someone mind taking a look at the link below and seeing if you can confirm.

handgungrips.com.

I believe the grips I want are listed as "S & W Hand Ejector .32 Revolver Reproduction Replacement Grip Black S10" for $29.95 and a Universal Hardware Kit (escutcheons and screw) for $5.95.

I'll also keep my eyes open for a replacement front sight and ejector rod knob. The one that's on there looks home made.

Thanks.

David

David,

Do those #S10 grip dimensions match your grip frame? They don't match mine.

I would suggest you consider looking around a bit for originals, they're not impossible to find in the classifieds on this forum, ebay and gunbroker. Also here's some additional sources for originals:

Don Furr: Has large number of grips for S&W Top-breaks and Revolving
Rifles as well as some wood grips.
e-Mail: [email protected]

Vern Eklund: Repairs to rubber grips and Gutta Percha cases.
Phone: 815-282-4682
e-Mail: [email protected]

Dave Bennett: Parts and guns from 1900 up to 1970's.
e-Mail: [email protected]
Web Site: www.22ammobox.com

Jack First: Large selection of Pre- and Post-WWII parts. Sells working
parts to FFL dealers only.
Phone: 605-343-9544

Gun Parts Corp: Successor to Numrich Arms; many guns parts.
226 Williams Lane, West Hurley, NY 12491
Phone: 845-679-2417
e-Mail: [email protected]
Web Site: Firearm Parts & Accessories | Military Surplus | Numrich Gun Parts

Jim Horvath: Many parts for all S&W's (large and small) from 1860 up;
can reproduce parts.
e-Mail: [email protected]

Jan Matlega: Parts for Pre-WWII S&W hand-ejectors.
Mail Address: 528 Eddy Glover
New Britain, CT 06053
Phone: 860-229-6872

Poppert's Gun Parts: Poppert's Gun Parts Main Menu
P.O. Box 413
Glenside, PA 19038
Tel: 215-887-2391 Fax: 215-887-5816
Email: [email protected]

Charlie Pate: Provides screws (original & reproduction) for S&W Tip-ups and Top-breaks; author of books and articles on S&W guns.
Phone: 703-533-8057
e-Mail: [email protected]

Phil Saccacio: Phone: 540-456-6405
e-Mail: [email protected]

Mike Veilleux: Guns and Gun Parts
All Parts inc. for Pre- and Post-WWII S&W's.
Phone: 413-732-9938
e-Mail: [email protected]
Web Site: Guns n Parts - New and Used Guns Bought and Sold.

Liberty Tree Collectors Phone:207-285-3111
139 Main Street, Corinth, ME 04427
Email:[email protected]
Liberty tree collectors has original, CCH lanyard rings (but without the retaining pin) for $25.

S&W Parts; antique and new
[email protected]
Ph: 352 394-7412

Gina Beyerback: Miscellaneous parts for S&W Stocks.
Mail Address: 4010 Arkansas Ave, Kenner, LA 70065
e-Mail: [email protected]


Some preferred Reproduction grips by forum members:

N.C.Ordnance, N.C. Ordnance Inc
N.C. Ordnance has, by far, the better quality product.

and then there is Vintage Gun Grips;
http://vintagegungrips.net/index.html

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Jim
S&WCA #819

As noted above, the Model 1896 is an I frame. Replica stock companies always seem to list these round butt stocks by their top-break identification. The I frame is not the same as the 32 Double Action frame, but rather you need to purchase the 38 Double Action stocks for your revolver.

Since the dimensions listed are the same for the 32 HE and the 38 DA, I think you are good to go with your choice. Unfortunately, these companies know how to cast plastic stocks, but often do not know how to properly identify them.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

I ordered a set of reproduction target grips. Hopefully they fit correctly. I'll post pictures once they arrive.

Now I need to find a replacement front sight blade. Are they the same lozenge shaped blades used in the top breaks?

Thanks.

David

The front sight on a Model 1896 is higher and longer than the 38 DA or 38 Safety, so they would be too short in most cases due to the higher ribs on the barrel. You can make front sights from those models fit with some filing, but since you do not have a pattern, there is a better option.

The best fit out there is to find a 32 Double Action or 32 Safety front sight, which is a drop in replacement. They will be easier to locate than one specifically for a Model 1896. Check Numrich (aka gunpartscorp.com)

I just measured my 1896 and the sight is .25" higher than the rib and .35 from pin to the top of the sight. It is .490" long.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

I ordered a 32 Double Action front sight from Numrich.

The target grips arrived and are a good fit. I had to deepen the locator pin holes and I need to shorten the upper grip screw, but they look nice.

As soon as the front sight is replaced, I'll post more pictures.

David

Still working on fitting the "new" front sight blade. Time seems to fly during the holidays. Since I also picked up a "Lemon squeezer" the week before Christmas, time has been in pretty short supply.

Does anyone have (or can you get) detailed measurements on the ejector rod knob? I'd like to try and make one on my lathe. The home made one that's on there now is functional, but bothers me.

If anyone knows the thread pitch, that would be nice too.

Thanks.

David

A good thread on this subject with photos:

32 HE 1st Model Parts Source

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Jim
S&WCA #819

I finally got the grips and front sight fitted. Now I need to work on my photography skills. ;-)





Would anyone be willing to post a picture of the ejector rod assembly (disassembled) from their 1896? I'm trying to figure out if the rod itself was replaced as well as the end knob.

Here's what mine looks like:


Thanks.

David

Nice work.

The grips look nice but someone ground off the hump at the top of the backstrap:

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Jim,

Well, they're reproduction grips, so I'll let it pass.

Now I just need to get our and do some shooting.

David

David,

Were you ever able to obtain an extractor rod knob and screw from Sam?

1896 Hand Ejector Rod Knob

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Jim,

After some health issues, a long distance move, and a reduced work schedule, I didn't.

Also, I can't justify spending $75 on an extractor rod knob for a $70 revolver.

Thanks for the follow up.

David

Hi David,

So you've completed your move from NY to TN.

I understand what you mean. But it's all about how you think of it; you were lucky enough to get for only $70, what is actually a $350-$400 revolver!

So you have lots of value to justify the correct knob. You'd still only be into it for $145.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Jim is correct. When buying fixer uppers I ask myself how much would i spend on the gun if it were complete and functional, and that is my total budget.

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Randy