Snubby ID Mystery Help Please

MDB1056 · #1 09-21-2016, 09:50 PM

I need to wisom of the forum experts please

I have a pre model
Hand ejector
Yoke & frame - S 26052
Butt & cylinder - C 120644
4 screw
38 special
Barrel 1.78"
Sights are hand ejector fixed

Smith CS says 1950 is best guess - that's all. Would love to have an idea of date of mfg and est value. Timing and lockup are great, smooth trigger and it shoots like a dream. Much better than my wifes new 637-2. It's a cool old piece. Very well balanced. I acquired in a straight trade for a smith 9MM that I'd only paid $300 for so that's all I have in this. This is a great little gun

Any help is greatly appreciated

scha · #2 09-21-2016, 09:59 PM

Probably dates from 1949-1950. Value depends on local market and condition. In many places this would be around $350-$400. Hope this helps.

Steve

simmitt · #3 09-21-2016, 10:00 PM

Cool looking gun, I think is a pre model ten, but I am just looking, I will check the book and post, buy someone will be along and will know what it is .

simmitt · #4 09-21-2016, 10:03 PM

looking at the Smith book, It looks like 1948-1967
Aircrewman.

murphydog · #5 09-21-2016, 10:10 PM

It is a .38 Military & Police from (likely) late 1949, after 1957 called the model 10. It appears somewhat worn but $400 or so would be a good guess. Hope this is helpful.

les.b · #6 09-21-2016, 10:11 PM

MDB:

Here is a slightly earlier version:

My serial is a little earlier than yours; C54XXX. Both are post war Military and Police .38 Specials. What would later become the Model 10. Available in Round Butt...mine, and Square Butt...yours, but both the same Military and Police model, built on the "K" frame, and in production in one form or another since the late 1800s. Wonderful revolvers. Will last forever. Shoot and enjoy.

Serial number is the one on the butt, starting with C. It should also be on the bottom flat of the barrel, and the reverse of the extractor star. Someone who really knows the details will probably be along soon...

Edit: Looks like Alan and I were typing at the same time.

Best Regards, Les

MDB1056 · #7 09-21-2016, 10:25 PM

les.b, Simmitt, Scha, Murphy - THANKS TO ALL OF YOU! Someone else (non forum) had intimated early M&P but I didn't know the designation went back that far. It's a very cool old piece that as les says and I agree will probably last forever as bult like a tank. For a $300 trade I think I got a great piece.

thanks again

Jimmyjones · #8 09-21-2016, 10:28 PM

Nice piece, it's a 5 screw, the last screw is hiding under the right stock. Same location as shown on Les's pic.

Not sure the stocks look correct for the vintage, does the right stock show the same sn as the other locations ?

Someone should be along with more knowledge on the stocks.

les.b · #9 09-21-2016, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmyjones

Nice piece, it's a 5 screw, the last screw is hiding under the right stock. Same location as shown on Les's pic.

Not sure the stocks look correct for the vintage, does the right stock show the same sn as the other locations ?

Someone should be along with more knowledge on the stocks.

Yeah, Jimmy, I think your right. The stocks on mine number to the gun. But for a square butt of that vintage, maybe it should have the "Sharp Shoulder" Magnas. Well, we all know that there are no certainties with Smith, but MDB... Please check the inside of the right stock (grip), and see if it has a serial number matching your C 120644 stamped or written there.

Best Regards, Les

KEN L · #10 09-21-2016, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDB1056

I need to wisom of the forum experts please

I have a pre model
Hand ejector
Yoke & frame - S 26052
Butt & cylinder - C 120644
4 screw
38 special
Barrel 1.78"
Sights are hand ejector fixed

Smith CS says 1950 is best guess - that's all. Would love to have an idea of date of mfg and est value. Timing and lockup are great, smooth trigger and it shoots like a dream. Much better than my wifes new 637-2. It's a cool old piece. Very well balanced. I acquired in a straight trade for a smith 9MM that I'd only paid $300 for so that's all I have in this. This is a great little gun

Any help is greatly appreciated

Most likely Jul/Aug time frame 1950, nice un!

Jimmyjones · #11 09-21-2016, 10:47 PM

Yes Les, that was my thinking, the ones I have from that time all have the Sharp Shoulder. Those shown are a bit later.

but, never say never.

Alk8944 · #12 09-22-2016, 12:28 AM

MDB,

It's late and I didn't take the time to read every response in detail, so maybe these comments were made before.

First, check the barrel length. While longer barrels sometimes measure shorter than their "nominal length", sometimes as much as 1/4" short, I have never seen a 2" K Frame that measured 1/8" short. That would mean the extractor rod and center pin would have to be non standard too, and it just doesn't happen. J Frame guns like the Chief's Special have a nominal length of 1 7/8", and maybe you didn't measure it!

The number stamped in the yoke cut and on the inner surface of the yoke are simply a fitter's stamp (S) and assembly number. If you look through the charge holes at the back face of the yoke you will see the serial number stamped there. It is also on the back (facing the cylinder) of the extractor. S&W did not start stamping the serial number in the yoke cut until the 1960s. If you look closely on the bottom flat of the barrel you will find a SN that matches the butt, which is the legal serial number of the revolver.

As far as the stocks are concerned the SN stamped inside the right one is proof they are original to the gun. Looking closely at them (Something too many fail to do!) the stocks on your gun are sharp-shoulder style. Yes, there should be a fairly sharp corner at the top where the side of the stocks meet the contour of the top, but yours appear to have been sanded at some time to round off the shoulder break. This matches the butt end of the stocks which are clearly rounded! They should not be! They should have a sharp corner at the butt, but this has been sanded round too, just like the shoulder. Apparently someone in the life of this gun wanted to soften the sharp corners of the stocks.

All-in-all a nice gun that has obviously spent years doing what it was intended to do in a Plain Clothes Officer's holster. Nice honest revolver, you did good! It would have been somewhere around $450-500 in this area, at least from a shop.

You really got me going with this and the SN confusion! I had to go get my 5" M&P from the same period (C15053x) out of the safe and check the numbers on it. Just happens that my revolver is mis-matched! C-number on the frame, cylinder, extractor and yoke. The barrel and stocks have a high S-number, S941926 on the barrel and stocks. I was hoping beyond hope that your odd numbers were the same as mine! Lots of luck with that. There is also an old (1960s and earlier) Utah Driver License number electro-penciled under the cylinder window on the left side, lightly fortunately and much of it could be burnished out. I wish I knew the story behind the parts switch! It wouldn't be so curious if the barrel and stock SNs didn't match, then I would probably assume that the original barrel had been damaged and replaced with a used one from a parts house.

BARgunner · #13 09-22-2016, 12:31 AM

I have one that is exactly 300 numbers later, C102944 and it was shipped in August 1950. Unless yours sat in the back corner of the S&W warehouse for a few years, it probably shipped in mid 1950. It's hard to tell from the angle of the pictures but the stocks look like sharp shouldered magnas to me. A better picture of the stocks looking straight down would tell the tale. A picture of the inside right grip would be interesting also.

MDB1056 · #14 09-22-2016, 01:56 AM

Thanks so much for all the info. I'll get the stocks off tomorrow and send new pictures , You guys are the best!

JP@AK · #15 09-22-2016, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alk8944

First, check the barrel length. While longer barrels sometimes measure shorter than their "nominal length", sometimes as much as 1/4" short, I have never seen a 2" K Frame that measured 1/8" short. That would mean the extractor rod and center pin would have to be non standard too, and it just doesn't happen. J Frame guns like the Chief's Special have a nominal length of 1 7/8", and maybe you didn't measure it!

This is completely correct. The I and J frame snubbies have nominal 2" barrels that actually measure 1 7/8" (nearly always - in fact I have never found one that didn't). The K frames, on the other hand, measure a true 2". I just grabbed two at random - one from 1947 and one from 1975. Both measure exactly 2".

Quote:

I had to go get my 5" M&P from the same period (S15053x) out of the safe

Typo??? There were never any S prefix M&P revolvers with this low a number. The S numbers completed the sequence started with the V prefix in 1942. The first one was over 800,000.

Waveski · #16 09-22-2016, 07:52 AM

"I acquired in a straight trade for a smith 9MM that I'd only paid $300 for ..."

I would have made quickly that trade before the other guy changed his mind!

Alk8944 · #17 09-22-2016, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JP@AK

Typo??? There were never any S prefix M&P revolvers with this low a number. The S numbers completed the sequence started with the V prefix in 1942. The first one was over 800,000.

Jack,

I said up front it was late!!!

Yes, Typo! If you read closely you will see the correct information immediately following, that the gun has a "C" number on the frame. Followed by: "The barrel and stocks have a high S-number, S941926...." I wouldn't list the guns SN as being that from the barrel!

What I was hoping when I read OPs post, before realizing he had mistaken the S fitter's mark and assembly number as being a SN is that he had the barrel from my gun and that his SN matched my barrel! Can you imagine the coincidence? Unfortunately it was not to be.

JSR III · #18 09-22-2016, 11:52 AM

C 2077 11/48, C 43336 1/49, C 53207 2/49, C 84786 8/49, C 153239 3/51, C 237356 1/54.

Just to give you a rough idea. Did I mention that I like blue revolvers? I did some VERY rough math in an attempt to determine how many were being made and shipped each month. This does not take into consideration what day of the month the above were shipped so as I said very rough numbers.

These are monthly numbers between those guns listed above. Using these numbers one should be able to get an approximate shipping date within a month or two.

13,753/mo.
4935/mo.
5263/mo.
3655/mo.
3823/mo.

You can see that production was very high in late 1948 into 1949 and then settled in at around 4000-5000 per month thereafter.

JP@AK · #19 09-22-2016, 02:19 PM

James
Here is one you can add to your list:

C152420 - shipped in February, 1951

MDB1056 · #20 09-22-2016, 05:21 PM

Well after all the great info from you guys I pulled the stocks and yes they DO have the number to match the gun so they are original. I circled in red the one that has the number on it but it's a poor picture for the correct detail but it's clearly visible under bright light. So the good news is they're correct to the gun. I know nothng about the "sharp shoulders" you experts note, but they look unchanged and symetrical to me. So I'm very happy they're original. If this adds my gun to the Smith oddity list - I guess that's an honor for any of us - right? It's just a great old piece that when I saw it I had to have it and was happy to trade for an inexpensive 9.

DWalt · #21 09-22-2016, 05:24 PM

Your grips are indeed the sharp shoulder style, used until about 1953. Later ones had the shoulders more rounded. The earlier estimates of a value around $400 are probably correct due to its condition. One in much better shape would probably sell for somewhat more. Those postwar S-series M&P snubbies with the older long action (pre-1948) would sell for even more. Everyone loves the postwar period M&P snubbies.

JSR III · #22 09-22-2016, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JP@AK

James
Here is one you can add to your list:

C152420 - shipped in February, 1951

Jack, if I add that one to my list I would have to own it. The ones I listed belong to me.

It is interesting to note in the photo of the stocks side by side that the right stock panel is much darker and worn from being carried and shot. This is typical of right handed shooters as the palm sweats and the stock gets worn from being exposed. I would say that if you traded a $300 gun you did just fine. Its not a safe queen but a proud workhorse that you can carry and shoot and not be afraid of getting a ding or two on it.

les.b · #23 09-22-2016, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDB1056

Well after all the great info from you guys I pulled the stocks and yes they DO have the number to match the gun so they are original. I circled in red the one that has the number on it but it's a poor picture for the correct detail but it's clearly visible under bright light. So the good news is they're correct to the gun. I know nothng about the "sharp shoulders" you experts note, but they look unchanged and symetrical to me. So I'm very happy they're original. If this adds my gun to the Smith oddity list - I guess that's an honor for any of us - right? It's just a great old piece that when I saw it I had to have it and was happy to trade for an inexpensive 9.

MDB:

This is good news. But your gun was already good news. The estimates of value between $400-$500 are factually correct, but I always factor in other considerations myself. Not that money is not important in our lives, but there are other considerations. You have already listed one: "when I saw it I had to have it" That is something that money can't buy. The other is: how many of these have you ever seen? How long might you have to wait before you get a chance at another one, and will it be more expensive, and maybe in worse shape?? And finally, you really did get a great deal, you are into the gun for $300!!

Remember: they are making 9mms every day, and there are literally millions of them out there. How many of these super cool guns were made in the first place, how many have survived, and last... They will probably never make another one as nice as this, as well finished, without the "internal lock", and finished with the attention to detail that would be prohibitively expensive in today's world.

You have a real winner there, and I wish you the best shooting and enjoying a classic treasure!!!

Best Regards, Les

MDB1056 · #24 09-22-2016, 08:05 PM

Just wanted to pass along a sincere THANK YOU to all of you for your contributions to this thread. Your expertise and appreciation for these fine weapons is greatly apreciated. I have the utmost repsect for all the knowledge and experince that this forum brings, especially to a newcomer like me that's only been taking the drug for a few years now, but am hopelessly addicted. As proof, just yesterday I drove almost three hours and picked up a STUNNING 28-2 6" from an individual for $450 which I considered a good deal. Thanks again

Mark.........................

les.b · #25 09-22-2016, 08:19 PM

MDB:

A 28-2 in stunning condition for $450. I hope you bought a power ball ticket too. On top of the above gun for $300. For goodness sakes. You know that we will want to see pictures of that one too. I think that sounds like a great deal.

Best Regards, Les

MDB1056 · #26 09-27-2016, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by les.b

MDB:

A 28-2 in stunning condition for $450. I hope you bought a power ball ticket too. On top of the above gun for $300. For goodness sakes. You know that we will want to see pictures of that one too. I think that sounds like a great deal.

Best Regards, Les

Les - Here are two (not great) pics of the 28-2. Smith CS says 1974. Bluing is perfect and there is only one tiny tiny nick. Grips are in good shape only a little dark. Super tight gun all around. For $450 couldn't pass it up. This one is a keeper for life. Also attached is a partial family photo with the snubby you helped with last week and the 28-2. Pair of 586's (one is no dash and one is -1), model 10-10,and a Colt (Official Police) that believe it or not was actually FREE. A couple others didn't make the picture and then the rest of the family are semi's - yes also all Smith - all 3rd gen metal. Love those as well. Thanks again for the help

Best
Mark......................

les.b · #27 09-27-2016, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDB1056

Les - Here are two (not great) pics of the 28-2. Smith CS says 1974. Bluing is perfect and there is only one tiny tiny nick. Grips are in good shape only a little dark. Super tight gun all around. For $450 couldn't pass it up. This one is a keeper for life. Also attached is a partial family photo with the snubby you helped with last week and the 28-2. Pair of 586's (one is no dash and one is -1), model 10-10,and a Colt (Official Police) that believe it or not was actually FREE. A couple others didn't make the picture and then the rest of the family are semi's - yes also all Smith - all 3rd gen metal. Love those as well. Thanks again for the help

Best
Mark......................

Mark:

Great collection!! That 28 is a beauty, and I'm sure you'll have fun with it. You have had some remarkable success in locating great firearms for really good prices. I hope that your success continues in the future.

Best Regards, Les