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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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Old 11-07-2016, 09:47 PM
NB4EST NB4EST is offline
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Default Much-modified Pre Model 26

in the image of the McCashland-customized Model of 1917 shown on page 105 of Elmer Keith's "Sixguns." My old .45 has a cylinder that's been milled to 1.125" and an aftermarket barrel that measures 6.625" overall, with only 5.250" of it's length projecting forward of the frame.

I lettered it (Mr. Jinks said it shipped to California Hardware in Los Angeles in the early '50s), laid it back, and basically neglected it for years, then tested various charges of Trail Boss behind a couple of short bullets. With its preferred charge and a 160 grain cast RN, it's my most accurate revolver.

I posted my questions in the Gunsmithing section and was advised to move it here.....Does anyone know if there was a specific shooting sport for which these heavily-modified S&Ws were intended?.....Was there a 'smith on the West Coast that may have specialized in this modification?.....Seems like I failed in my effort to determine if California Hardware records still exist. Anyone have a clue?
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Old 11-07-2016, 10:02 PM
Muley Gil Muley Gil is online now
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Please post pictures!!
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Old 11-07-2016, 10:51 PM
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These surface from time to time but are rare. I don't know that the gunsmith has ever been identified. They do have a strange and unique appearance.

Some have the front half of the cyl split lengthwise with the right half fixed in the cyl window and the left half mounted on the yoke, rotating out to the side with the back half of the cyl when opened. They look like they have a standard cyl when closed.

Most likely used for NRA Bullseye matches. A 22 RF, any CF cartridge and 45 ACP firearms were required for the matches. Many used the 45 target models or a 1911 for both the CF and 45 firearm.

I used a S&W M41 and a Colt 1911 Gold Cup when I shot the matches.
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Old 09-13-2020, 05:14 PM
NB4EST NB4EST is offline
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Pre 26 Picture
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Old 09-13-2020, 05:17 PM
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Muley Gil, I'm nearly 4 years late and a few dollars short as usual, but this is a pic of my Pre-26.
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Old 09-13-2020, 07:15 PM
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I just never had an accuracy issue with my 26 to go to that extreme. But they're very interesting custom target revolvers.
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Old 09-13-2020, 08:16 PM
S&WIowegan S&WIowegan is offline
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Question Short cylinder

Visually the shortened cylinder doesn't look long enough to chamber 45ACP. Can it be done?
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Old 09-13-2020, 08:32 PM
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The shortened cylinder will accept round-nose flat-point cast bullets of 200 grains or less. I've never tried full wadcutters, but they will obviously work. I'm told part of the intent was to reduce length of bullet jump between case mouth and forcing cone. Whatever the 'smith did, it seems to have worked. The old S&W is comparatively very accurate, especially when all guns are fired double action, and really shines at 50 yards and beyond. Elmer mentioned Douglas barrels being used in the conversion, but I've never been able to determine the maker of this barrel nor of the pistolsmith who did the mods.
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Old 09-13-2020, 08:42 PM
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S&WIowegan, I normally seat my cast 200 grain RNs and RNFPs at 1.250", then roll crimp'em for ease of loading in my Mountain Guns and other revolvers. I noted in my post at the top that the cylinder on the Pre-26 measures 1.125". They obviously foul the cylinder in this old S&W.

Last edited by NB4EST; 09-13-2020 at 08:47 PM. Reason: typed in wrong bullet configuration
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Old 09-14-2020, 09:29 PM
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Thanx so much for sharing......
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Old 09-14-2020, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NB4EST View Post
I'm told part of the intent was to reduce length of bullet jump between case mouth and forcing cone.
Back in the 70s, several guys that were building 38 wadcutter guns for PPC did the same thing for that reason. The cylinders would only hold 38 wadcutters. I knew one guy loading only 2.1 gr of Bullseye with a cast WC for the short ranges!
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Old 09-15-2020, 12:11 AM
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That would make perfect sense Lee, with a revolver you don't need the extra grain of powder to function the slide. All your doing is punching .38 caliber holes in a target. I suppose you would load one of those wadcutter bullets similar to how you reload for a Model 52. I've been fooling around with a couple of different bullets since my supply of 148gr. Speer HBWC has dwindled. Found an old six gang Cramer mold awhile back and found that I can get that bullet to work just fine but must seat to an OAL 1.210 to accommodate the design of a raised nose at centerline. They work slick in the magazine, feed nicely. I'll check for accuracy in a few days. I'm getting by with 3.0gr of Titegroup...Hope this isn't drifting too far off topic.
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Old 09-15-2020, 09:47 AM
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One of the leading lights in the short cylinder trend for PPC was the late Fred Schmidt of Mechanicsville, VA. He did a complete conversion involving the shortened cylinder with a heavy bull barrel and crane locks, then topped it off with an Aristocrat rib. Of course the action was slicked up as well. He advertised that he had patented this design, and it was quite popular here in the East during the ‘70s and until his death in the early ‘80s. I bought the gun he built to use for demonstrations at matches etc from his estate and shot it for several years before a collector talked me out of it.

Back to the OP, the short cylinder was indeed engineered to allow the bullet to enter the barrel throat and actually engage the rifling before it completely left the case in the chamber, for no bullet jump and less loss of energy at the BC gap. Good concept... and I guess it worked, but I’m not a good enough shooter to prove it myself.

Froggie
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Old 09-15-2020, 10:41 AM
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A friend was a regular PPC shooter in those days. He knows that 150,000 wadcutters will take out the rifling about 1/3 the way down the barrel and shake loose the action of a Schmidt short cylinder gun. Nobody to work on it after Mr Schmidt passed; but he was able to get his Travis Strahan overhauled while Mr Strahan was still in operation.
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Old 09-17-2020, 05:40 PM
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Kindly excuse the frank character of my assessment here.

With due appreciation that "reasonable minds can disagree..." Seeming to me in respect of these referenced guns, a "missing link"! Genetic markers tying Bubba and Rube Goldberg traits in relevant designer(s) & gunsmith(s)!

Just my take!
Best & Stay Safe!
John
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Old 09-17-2020, 06:08 PM
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Some people will go to any extreme to ring that last little bit out.

Car frames got holes drilled in them,the bodies got dipped in acids.
Rods got holes drilled in them etc all for a couple MPH and shaving fractions of a second in the 1/4mile.

We shake our heads now but, if not for those kind of people we wouldn't have aluminum frames, rods and stoker cranks.

Same thing goes for guns, Don't some of the Miculek 625-8 have a shorter cylinder than standard 625s

If nobody had been willing to experiment we would still be living in caves
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Old 09-17-2020, 08:36 PM
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I was already familiar with what Keith et al had written concerning the accuracy potential of some of the guns sporting similar mods. Always one to value accuracy over NIB condition, especially at the OTD price of $425 (maybe as late as 2010) I decided to risk the $$ to have a chance of experiencing what Elmer and others described. As with my pieced-together-by-the-late/great Joe Bonar, double-stack 1911, I've had nary a regret.

Different strokes, I guess.

Last edited by NB4EST; 09-17-2020 at 08:47 PM.
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