Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >

Notices

S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-07-2016, 09:47 PM
NB4EST NB4EST is offline
SWCA Member
Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26  
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Southeast Kentucky
Posts: 80
Likes: 166
Liked 105 Times in 33 Posts
Default Much-modified Pre Model 26

in the image of the McCashland-customized Model of 1917 shown on page 105 of Elmer Keith's "Sixguns." My old .45 has a cylinder that's been milled to 1.125" and an aftermarket barrel that measures 6.625" overall, with only 5.250" of it's length projecting forward of the frame.

I lettered it (Mr. Jinks said it shipped to California Hardware in Los Angeles in the early '50s), laid it back, and basically neglected it for years, then tested various charges of Trail Boss behind a couple of short bullets. With its preferred charge and a 160 grain cast RN, it's my most accurate revolver.

I posted my questions in the Gunsmithing section and was advised to move it here.....Does anyone know if there was a specific shooting sport for which these heavily-modified S&Ws were intended?.....Was there a 'smith on the West Coast that may have specialized in this modification?.....Seems like I failed in my effort to determine if California Hardware records still exist. Anyone have a clue?
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #2  
Old 11-07-2016, 10:02 PM
Muley Gil Muley Gil is offline
US Veteran
Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26  
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The SW Va Blue Ridge
Posts: 13,951
Likes: 50,777
Liked 16,141 Times in 5,862 Posts
Default

Please post pictures!!
__________________
John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #3  
Old 11-07-2016, 10:51 PM
Hondo44 Hondo44 is offline
SWCA Member
Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26  
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: California
Posts: 16,080
Likes: 7,578
Liked 15,222 Times in 6,397 Posts
Default

These surface from time to time but are rare. I don't know that the gunsmith has ever been identified. They do have a strange and unique appearance.

Some have the front half of the cyl split lengthwise with the right half fixed in the cyl window and the left half mounted on the yoke, rotating out to the side with the back half of the cyl when opened. They look like they have a standard cyl when closed.

Most likely used for NRA Bullseye matches. A 22 RF, any CF cartridge and 45 ACP firearms were required for the matches. Many used the 45 target models or a 1911 for both the CF and 45 firearm.

I used a S&W M41 and a Colt 1911 Gold Cup when I shot the matches.
__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819

Last edited by Hondo44; 09-14-2020 at 03:48 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #4  
Old 09-13-2020, 05:14 PM
NB4EST NB4EST is offline
SWCA Member
Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26  
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Southeast Kentucky
Posts: 80
Likes: 166
Liked 105 Times in 33 Posts
Default Pre 26

Pre 26 Picture
Attached Thumbnails
Much-modified Pre Model 26-119095311_3211466302222242_468070320008112064_n-jpg  
Reply With Quote
The Following 9 Users Like Post:
  #5  
Old 09-13-2020, 05:17 PM
NB4EST NB4EST is offline
SWCA Member
Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26  
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Southeast Kentucky
Posts: 80
Likes: 166
Liked 105 Times in 33 Posts
Default

Muley Gil, I'm nearly 4 years late and a few dollars short as usual, but this is a pic of my Pre-26.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #6  
Old 09-13-2020, 07:15 PM
Hondo44 Hondo44 is offline
SWCA Member
Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26  
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: California
Posts: 16,080
Likes: 7,578
Liked 15,222 Times in 6,397 Posts
Default

I just never had an accuracy issue with my 26 to go to that extreme. But they're very interesting custom target revolvers.
__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819

Last edited by Hondo44; 09-14-2020 at 03:42 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #7  
Old 09-13-2020, 08:16 PM
S&WIowegan S&WIowegan is offline
US Veteran
Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26  
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Iowa
Posts: 3,766
Likes: 11,245
Liked 3,208 Times in 1,569 Posts
Question Short cylinder

Visually the shortened cylinder doesn't look long enough to chamber 45ACP. Can it be done?
__________________
Bob.
SWCA 1821
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-13-2020, 08:32 PM
NB4EST NB4EST is offline
SWCA Member
Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26  
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Southeast Kentucky
Posts: 80
Likes: 166
Liked 105 Times in 33 Posts
Default

The shortened cylinder will accept round-nose flat-point cast bullets of 200 grains or less. I've never tried full wadcutters, but they will obviously work. I'm told part of the intent was to reduce length of bullet jump between case mouth and forcing cone. Whatever the 'smith did, it seems to have worked. The old S&W is comparatively very accurate, especially when all guns are fired double action, and really shines at 50 yards and beyond. Elmer mentioned Douglas barrels being used in the conversion, but I've never been able to determine the maker of this barrel nor of the pistolsmith who did the mods.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #9  
Old 09-13-2020, 08:42 PM
NB4EST NB4EST is offline
SWCA Member
Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26  
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Southeast Kentucky
Posts: 80
Likes: 166
Liked 105 Times in 33 Posts
Default

S&WIowegan, I normally seat my cast 200 grain RNs and RNFPs at 1.250", then roll crimp'em for ease of loading in my Mountain Guns and other revolvers. I noted in my post at the top that the cylinder on the Pre-26 measures 1.125". They obviously foul the cylinder in this old S&W.

Last edited by NB4EST; 09-13-2020 at 08:47 PM. Reason: typed in wrong bullet configuration
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #10  
Old 09-14-2020, 09:29 PM
ddixie884's Avatar
ddixie884 ddixie884 is offline
Member
Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26  
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Avery,Tx
Posts: 1,680
Likes: 1,764
Liked 933 Times in 486 Posts
Default

Thanx so much for sharing......
__________________
dd884
JMHO-YMMV
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-14-2020, 09:31 PM
handejector's Avatar
handejector handejector is offline
Administrator
Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26  
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,297
Likes: 2,568
Liked 32,179 Times in 6,038 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NB4EST View Post
I'm told part of the intent was to reduce length of bullet jump between case mouth and forcing cone.
Back in the 70s, several guys that were building 38 wadcutter guns for PPC did the same thing for that reason. The cylinders would only hold 38 wadcutters. I knew one guy loading only 2.1 gr of Bullseye with a cast WC for the short ranges!
__________________
Regards,
Lee Jarrett
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #12  
Old 09-15-2020, 12:11 AM
Kinman's Avatar
Kinman Kinman is online now
Member
Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26  
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Spokantucky
Posts: 2,645
Likes: 6,690
Liked 3,699 Times in 1,353 Posts
Default

That would make perfect sense Lee, with a revolver you don't need the extra grain of powder to function the slide. All your doing is punching .38 caliber holes in a target. I suppose you would load one of those wadcutter bullets similar to how you reload for a Model 52. I've been fooling around with a couple of different bullets since my supply of 148gr. Speer HBWC has dwindled. Found an old six gang Cramer mold awhile back and found that I can get that bullet to work just fine but must seat to an OAL 1.210 to accommodate the design of a raised nose at centerline. They work slick in the magazine, feed nicely. I'll check for accuracy in a few days. I'm getting by with 3.0gr of Titegroup...Hope this isn't drifting too far off topic.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #13  
Old 09-15-2020, 09:47 AM
Green Frog Green Frog is offline
Member
Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26  
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Central VA
Posts: 6,110
Likes: 801
Liked 5,262 Times in 2,499 Posts
Default

One of the leading lights in the short cylinder trend for PPC was the late Fred Schmidt of Mechanicsville, VA. He did a complete conversion involving the shortened cylinder with a heavy bull barrel and crane locks, then topped it off with an Aristocrat rib. Of course the action was slicked up as well. He advertised that he had patented this design, and it was quite popular here in the East during the ‘70s and until his death in the early ‘80s. I bought the gun he built to use for demonstrations at matches etc from his estate and shot it for several years before a collector talked me out of it.

Back to the OP, the short cylinder was indeed engineered to allow the bullet to enter the barrel throat and actually engage the rifling before it completely left the case in the chamber, for no bullet jump and less loss of energy at the BC gap. Good concept... and I guess it worked, but I’m not a good enough shooter to prove it myself.

Froggie
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #14  
Old 09-15-2020, 10:41 AM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Florence, Alabama, USA
Posts: 1,684
Likes: 14
Liked 749 Times in 444 Posts
Default

A friend was a regular PPC shooter in those days. He knows that 150,000 wadcutters will take out the rifling about 1/3 the way down the barrel and shake loose the action of a Schmidt short cylinder gun. Nobody to work on it after Mr Schmidt passed; but he was able to get his Travis Strahan overhauled while Mr Strahan was still in operation.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-17-2020, 05:40 PM
iskra iskra is offline
Member
Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26  
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: 'Beachy' SoCal
Posts: 500
Likes: 7
Liked 720 Times in 264 Posts
Default

Kindly excuse the frank character of my assessment here.

With due appreciation that "reasonable minds can disagree..." Seeming to me in respect of these referenced guns, a "missing link"! Genetic markers tying Bubba and Rube Goldberg traits in relevant designer(s) & gunsmith(s)!

Just my take!
Best & Stay Safe!
John
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 09-17-2020, 06:08 PM
steelslaver's Avatar
steelslaver steelslaver is offline
US Veteran
Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26  
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Central Montana
Posts: 7,637
Likes: 4,088
Liked 17,852 Times in 5,097 Posts
Default

Some people will go to any extreme to ring that last little bit out.

Car frames got holes drilled in them,the bodies got dipped in acids.
Rods got holes drilled in them etc all for a couple MPH and shaving fractions of a second in the 1/4mile.

We shake our heads now but, if not for those kind of people we wouldn't have aluminum frames, rods and stoker cranks.

Same thing goes for guns, Don't some of the Miculek 625-8 have a shorter cylinder than standard 625s

If nobody had been willing to experiment we would still be living in caves
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #17  
Old 09-17-2020, 08:36 PM
NB4EST NB4EST is offline
SWCA Member
Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26 Much-modified Pre Model 26  
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Southeast Kentucky
Posts: 80
Likes: 166
Liked 105 Times in 33 Posts
Default

I was already familiar with what Keith et al had written concerning the accuracy potential of some of the guns sporting similar mods. Always one to value accuracy over NIB condition, especially at the OTD price of $425 (maybe as late as 2010) I decided to risk the $$ to have a chance of experiencing what Elmer and others described. As with my pieced-together-by-the-late/great Joe Bonar, double-stack 1911, I've had nary a regret.

Different strokes, I guess.

Last edited by NB4EST; 09-17-2020 at 08:47 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Updated: Model 3 DA, Factory Modified in '49, The SWHF is awesome! SixgunStrumpet S&W Antiques 51 12-29-2019 04:49 PM
Value of a modified model 15 Bobbysixkiller S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present 17 10-28-2016 12:50 PM
Model 29 modified barrel snowraker S&W-Smithing 1 01-03-2013 12:10 AM
Modified model 66 jrm53 S&W Revolvers: 1961 to 1980 8 02-19-2009 06:09 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:12 PM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.42 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)