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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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  #1  
Old 11-17-2016, 08:22 PM
mactheaxe84 mactheaxe84 is offline
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Ok. I have come across this pistol and through research have learned that it is one of the finest made by Smith and Wesson. What I don't know is when. If it's an original my guess is it's been refinished by the factory.

Here is the info considering I am unable to post pics.

serial number is 6**1. It is nickel plated with what looks to be original grips. 6 1/2 inch barrel. Nickel plating is 95%. There are a few dings here and there. The number inside the yolk is 10 b. the frame and cylinder have matching serial numbers. There is a stamped star on the back of the cylinder a cartridge hole from the serial number. Does this mean anything?

the patent dates on the top of the barrel go from . March 27. 1994 to Feb 6 2006.

What can you tell me about this piece based on the information I've given and is there anymore information you require for what you need? What is the last date of manufacture for it and lastly What is the projected value of this Pistol?

Last edited by mactheaxe84; 11-17-2016 at 08:42 PM.
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Old 11-17-2016, 08:37 PM
Muley Gil Muley Gil is offline
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Welcome to the Forum.

Your TL probably shipped around 1914.

The patent dates would be 1894 and 1906.

Value depends on condition. Please post pictures or you can send them to a member here that can post them for you.
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Old 11-17-2016, 08:55 PM
mactheaxe84 mactheaxe84 is offline
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Im sorry, im not sure what TL is. And i would be happy to send pics for someone to post.
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Old 11-17-2016, 08:57 PM
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I'd love to see some pictures too, if this can be managed. Is it in your possession?

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Old 11-17-2016, 09:00 PM
Muley Gil Muley Gil is offline
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TL=Triple Lock
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Old 11-17-2016, 09:02 PM
mactheaxe84 mactheaxe84 is offline
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it is in my hands as we speak. I have just taken some pictures of it with my phone but not sure how to post the pictures. Like muley gil said. I would like to find someone a little more familiar with this forum to post the pictures for me.
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Old 11-17-2016, 09:57 PM
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I have pics from OP;




Unfortunately, it looks like Smith & Wesson added the 4 line address which means the Re-nickel was done by them.

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Old 11-17-2016, 10:01 PM
mactheaxe84 mactheaxe84 is offline
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what would make that unfortunate? Not original? what does that do for the value?
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Old 11-17-2016, 10:03 PM
mactheaxe84 mactheaxe84 is offline
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And thank you for going through the trouble of posting the pictures for me.
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Old 11-17-2016, 10:30 PM
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Well, I consider it unfortunate because it's no longer original, but since it's been refinished it's already different from factory condition.
Have you pulled the stocks and checked the frame for additional stamped numbers, etc? They'll be on the left side of grip frame.

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Old 11-17-2016, 10:34 PM
mactheaxe84 mactheaxe84 is offline
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I have. I might need to recheck but I didn't find anything. What would that mean for the value on it?
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Old 11-17-2016, 11:01 PM
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As a general rule of thumb, the value is cut in half--because of the refinish. There's some more rules of thumb: It appears one refinish is factory---as witnessed by the four line address, so maybe the value is cut by 35-40% instead of half. Then there's the question of has there been more than one refinish? I have no idea, and would have to sit and stare---and then may very well still not know. On the other hand, a Triplelock is a Triplelock is a Triplelock------and the lust factor is high! (That would be the demand part of supply and demand which drives that value thing up some.) Finally---the four line address---the first I've ever seen (or at least taken note of); but have heard tales of such for years------which is at least more than a little bit interesting.

And there you have it-------much ado about nothing!! Make that nothing about much ado.

Ralph Tremaine

Last edited by rct269; 11-17-2016 at 11:04 PM.
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Old 11-17-2016, 11:05 PM
mactheaxe84 mactheaxe84 is offline
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well what would we consider for the value? I bought it relatively cheap.....250 dollars. If one refinish and its a triplelock.......
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Old 11-18-2016, 01:48 AM
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Quote:
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well what would we consider for the value? I bought it relatively cheap.....250 dollars. If one refinish and its a triplelock.......
WOW just WOW !!!
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Old 11-18-2016, 03:56 AM
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Congrats!!

You have a very nice example of a ".44 Hand Ejector-1st Model" also marketed as the .44 Military and nicknamed the Triple Lock by collectors. AND YOU GOT IT FOR A BARGAIN BASEMENT PRICE!

Value is between $1000 and $2000; depending on finish history, so we need more info from you to pin that down, see below.


FINISH:

1. First is to establish if the original finish was blue or nickel. 'B' or 'N' stamp: ahead of pre war serial #s on the barrel flat (or in shroud), rear face of yoke, on rear face of cyl by itself, behind the extractor star, and by itself on right side grip frame on commercial guns (only on left side grip frame on post war models) indicates an original Blue finish or an original Nickel finish based upon the corresponding letter. The occasional absence (more prevalent after 1930) of either the 'B' or 'N' can also indicate that it left the factory nickeled. (Also not to be confused with a larger B behind the barrel serial # for the Bright blue optional finish in the post war era - early ‘50s when satin blue was standard.)
“I've seen nickel Triple Locks with N stamps. I've seen them without it, too. Pre-war nickel guns MAY have an N, or they may simply lack B's. Regards, Lee Jarrett”
If the gun was originally shipped with a nickel finish, that's a little better value wise than if shipped blue.
So tell us what you see?

2. Is there a star on the butt of the grip frame following the serial #?
Stars indicate return to the factory for something; rework or refinish, etc. The star on the cyl could mean a replaced cyl at the factory.

Stars are usually accompanied by a date stamped using all numerical digits on the left side of the grip under the grip. Please check for that. We can't help you w/o good information and careful observations. NOTE: Observing stampings for accuracy or even existence, especially on penciled stocks, requires magnification, bright light, and an attitude that it is there!

As observed above, the 4 line address on the right, front frame side was a bad post WW II practice at the factory until it was stopped, but it is certain evidence that the factory got the gun back at least once.

However the polished flat pin head shown on the left frame side just in front of the left grip top indicates it was refinished at least once out side of the factory. That pin is supposed to have a domed head and will still have, when factory refinished. So we likely have at least two refinishes.


SERIAL NUMBERS:

Here are the 6 (or 7 on Triple Locks) pre war fixed sight frame serial # locations which are also the locations remaining after WW II thru ~1956 to look for (not including the 3 stamped serial # locations for pre war and early post war Transitional models with pre war target sights):

1. Gun butt - or forestrap on I frames/single shots with grips that cover the butt

2. Barrel - bottom of barrel or in extractor shroud

3. Yoke - on rear face only visible thru a chamber with a flashlight

4. Extractor star - backside

5. Cylinder - rear face

6. Right stock only* - on back (except most post war target grips because individual fitting not required), penciled on Triple Locks

7. Mid-lock cam plate – “Triple Locks” only, in any caliber (up to all 5 digits).
* Stamped since 1857, stock #s, almost exclusively on right panel only, changed to penciled #s c. 1900 and back to stamped #s in 1929. Pre war penciled S/Ns are in the top half of the stock near the backstrap and read with the stock oriented with the back edge down. Sometimes a photo like this one is needed to “see” the penciled # as shown below:


Your grips have the genuine gold plated over brass indicating it was shipped after 1910 when the medallions were introduced on the walnut stocks, (if they have the matching serial #).


BACKGROUND:

The Triple Lock is the Holy Grail and very first N frame (large) Hand Ejector and .44 special Revolver! Officially it's a ".44 Hand Ejector 1st Model 1908 Military - New Century". It was introduced in 1908 along with the brand new .44 S&W Special cartridge. It has the unique feature of a third cyl lock in front of the cylinder, a feature not seen before or since. This revolver is the pinnacle of S&W engineering design and craftsmanship. Only 15,375 were made, most chambered in .44 Spl and a few in other calibers, until discontinued in 1915 and replaced with the 2nd Model which did not have the 3rd lock or the barrel shroud.

An additional ~6000 were made as the “.455 Hand Ejector 1st Model” chambered for the .455 Mk II cartridge under contract with the British Commonwealth for WW I, for a grand total of ~20836 Triple Locks.

The three locks are under the barrel in the extractor rod shroud, back of the cyl, and the 3rd lock, hence the nickname "Triple Lock", in the yoke at the front of the cyl. They all release simultaneously with a push of the cyl release thumb piece. The locking pin is sprung to the front, opposite from any other N frame, therefore there is no 'divot' in the TL recoil shield unlike all other N frames.

The front and middle locks are shown below. The TL craftsmanship is superb and a marvel of precision hand fitting, the panache of yesteryear that we will never see again:






TLs have a classic old feature to keep the cyl open when loading/unloading and prevent it from slamming closed if the gun is tipped to the right slightly and scratching the recoil shield with the extractor star.

Important Note: if you remove the yoke beware of the cyl detent pin and spring! If you aren't aware, it can launch across the room to no man knows where! If it's missing, that's likely what happened to it.

Plunger shown here in bottom of yoke and has a spring underneath it:



Looking forward to your additional information,
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Old 11-18-2016, 08:05 AM
mactheaxe84 mactheaxe84 is offline
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Okay. Ill try to answer and provide as much information asked for by Hondo44 as I can.

For the finish. I couldnt find anything on the barrel flat or shroud or cylinder. I did however find 10 7 R on the bottom left inside grip which would indicate to me refinish.

There is no star on the butt of the grip frame.

The top of the barrel indicates to me it has been recently refinished. I will write it as follows:
Smith and Wesson Springfield Mass U.S.A Patent March 27 94 May 21 96 Aug 4 96 Dec 22 96 Oct 8 01 Dec 3 01 Feb 6 06. That is what is confusing to me. considering the low serial number and the fact this thing wasnt produced after 1915....?

It seems to me, if I am using logic correctly this pistol has been refinished at minimum twice.

I hope I have provided enough info and if I haven't please let me know. Thanks.
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Old 11-18-2016, 08:57 AM
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With all this discussion about refinishing (and how many times) and the effect this has had on collectibility, etc, etc, etc, I just want to sayWelcome to the S&W Forum and congratulations on entering the fray with such a neat gun as well. Regardless of its history, your Triple Lock is a great gun to own, will be lots of fun to shoot, and in spite of any of its negatives (real or perceived) rather valuable. I have every reason to believe that its worst detractors in this thread would break their arms getting out their wallets to give you two or three or more times what you paid for it (I know I would!) and it is yours to enjoy owning and shooting, something very few of us can say. My brother-at-arms Hondo44 has given you a great summary of the history of the breed and if you really want to find out even more, I would highly recommend looking at the pertinent portions of Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson in either the 3rd or the brand new 4th edition. It's worth knowing as much as you can about a rare or unusual gun, and you are in truly rarified atmosphere! Congratulations again.

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Old 11-18-2016, 11:35 AM
Plain Old Dave Plain Old Dave is offline
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Regardless of provenance, it's an honest old Triple Lock.

And you beat my .32-20 car gun deal all hollow.

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Last edited by Plain Old Dave; 11-18-2016 at 11:38 AM.
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Old 11-18-2016, 11:46 AM
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I doubt it has been refinished more than once.
I've seen several TLs refinished in the early 70s that were roll marked and buffed without removing the studs, obviously leaving the stud ends flat.
Another thing they often did- the sides of the front sight appear to be sand blasted. That was also common on 70s refinishes.

At this point, the items affecting value the most will be bore condition and mechanical condition.
Most likely a $900-1250 gun. It has to fall into the "HIGH grade shooter" class. The purists will be put off by the 4 line, flat studs, worn grips, lack of case colors, and frosty front sight (if I'm correct about that).
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Old 11-18-2016, 12:15 PM
mactheaxe84 mactheaxe84 is offline
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The reason I said refinished twice is because it has the four line address which someone in here told me that was a practice after WWII that they stopped. That is the first refinish. The second is from the dates between 94 and 06 on the top of the barrel which is why I have assumed refinished twice.

As far as the barrel is concerned I gave it a good cleaning last night and took my paper for light reflection to see the threads. I would have to say I saw some minor pitting near the back 3/4 down the barrel. It isnt pristine and shiny. It seems to have had some use and left without a cleaning in my opinion. It isn't horrible but it isn't mint.

As far as the action is concerned it is tight. It is the nicest action I have ever felt in a pistol period. No creep or travel in the trigger whatsoever. It seems to have maybe a 2 lb trigger with the hammer cocked and as soon as the trigger moves the hammer falls. the cylinder action is smooth and crisp. There is nothing wrong with the action whatsoever. To me that is the best part of this pistol.

I went today to my local sporting goods store looking for some .44 special only to find they don't carry it in store but they can order me some.

To reiterate, the four line address along with the dates on the top of the barrel is what is throwing me off on this thing as far as how many times it has been refinished and why they would add patent dates on the top of the barrel on such an old pistol.
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Old 11-18-2016, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mactheaxe84 View Post
The second is from the dates between 94 and 06 on the top of the barrel which is why I have assumed refinished twice.
Those patent dates are 1894 and 1906.

They were put on when they built the gun because they were still valid patents.
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Old 11-18-2016, 12:25 PM
mactheaxe84 mactheaxe84 is offline
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well I feel like a schmuck. lol you see 04 you tend to assume 2004. So I have been throwing a football while we are playing baseball. It all makes sense now.

I guess I'm not used to dealing with such an old pistol......can't you tell?
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Old 11-18-2016, 12:27 PM
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Are the sides of the front sight frosted? Just curious....no big deal.

Nice looking gun, and with a tight action and fairly crisp bore, I bet you could get 10 or 12.
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Old 11-18-2016, 12:31 PM
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yes they are.

10 or 12? we talking 1,000 to 1,200? Im not generally in this type of environment. So I give my inexperience away.
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Old 11-18-2016, 12:43 PM
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yes- $1000-1200
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Old 11-18-2016, 12:50 PM
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That's a lot of money for this area. I have seen a blued TL at the shows here that one dealer has had for several years at $1000. Smith and Wesson revolvers are imo artificially inflated; I wouldn't put more than $500-600 in it, and that's top dollar for a 44 Special.

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Old 11-18-2016, 01:22 PM
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Talking Shooting the S&W Triple Lock

Just a suggestion for your Triple Lock, these guns are over 100 years old and metal science was not as advanced as it is today. If you plan on shooting it, go easy on the "old girl" and shoot cowboy loads with lead bullets. The pressures for modern guns are a lot higher today and jacketed bullets should be avoided in the TL. Georgia Arms Ammo sells 44 special LRNFP ammo which I use in my collection of TL shooters. LRNFP stands for Lead Round Nose Flat Point. You can google their web site for more info. Cowboys loads are lower PSI and velocity and are great for target practice. My guns handle them very well. These Triple Locks are a HOOT TO SHOOT! Enjoy!
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Old 11-18-2016, 01:37 PM
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Elmer Keith shot his 44 Special handloads through TLs. That said, jacketed bullets have no place in a revolver, and modest handloads generally shoot better than hi-test ones.

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Old 11-18-2016, 03:23 PM
Muley Gil Muley Gil is offline
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Quote:
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Welcome to the Forum.

Your TL probably shipped around 1914.

The patent dates would be 1894 and 1906.

Value depends on condition. Please post pictures or you can send them to a member here that can post them for you.
"Those patent dates are 1894 and 1906.

They were put on when they built the gun because they were still valid patents."

"well I feel like a schmuck. lol you see 04 you tend to assume 2004."

I guess no one read my post.
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Old 11-18-2016, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mactheaxe84 View Post
.

For the finish. I couldnt find anything on the barrel flat or shroud or cylinder. I did however find 10 7 R on the bottom left inside grip which would indicate to me refinish.
I don't know about you, but I'm so old, I can't see anything on guns without at least a 5X glass. The serial # in the shroud is tiny and it's vertical in the very front end behind the lock pin.

Could the 10 7 R be 10 73 for Oct 1973, with a magnifying glass?
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Old 11-18-2016, 10:37 PM
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well I feel like a schmuck. lol you see 04 you tend to assume 2004. So I have been throwing a football while we are playing baseball. It all makes sense now.

I guess I'm not used to dealing with such an old pistol......can't you tell?
No worries, we've all been there done that. And I can catch a football in my 1st baseman's mitt!
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Old 11-19-2016, 08:07 AM
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IF I WERE YOU, I would keep this one. I think you said you paid $250 for this, and I noted you now have it for sale in the classifieds section. You have so little into it, you might regret letting it go later. Now, that's just my thoughts and maybe you have no interest in this revolver, but it is really a remarkable revolver in its precision machining, something that is far too costly to replicate today.
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Old 11-19-2016, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by delta-419 View Post
Just a suggestion for your Triple Lock, these guns are over 100 years old and metal science was not as advanced as it is today. If you plan on shooting it, go easy on the "old girl" and shoot cowboy loads with lead bullets. The pressures for modern guns are a lot higher today and jacketed bullets should be avoided in the TL.
I don't know...WHY would that necessarily be so?

I fire my Triple Locks using 6.7 grains of Red Dot behind a 180 grain jacketed bullet. The range given in Lyman's 49th Edition is 6.4 grains, With a Pressure C.U.P of 11,600. The maximum load is 7.1 grains, at a pressure of 13,700 C.U.P. So, with my load, my pressures would be in the 12,000-something range. (Question: I don't know for sure, but would pressures be a strict 1:1 interpolation--that is, if a certain handload generates 10,000 C.U.P at the lowest load listed, and the hottest load generates 12,000 C.U.P, if one loaded EXACTLY in the middle of these suggested loads, would the Pressure C.U.P. be 11,000? For some reason, I don't think it is that simple, and I digress...). In any event, as I was saying, my pressures would be in the 12,000-something range. If one flips the page, under .44 Smith & Wesson Special loads, using a 205 grain cast bullet (#427098), the most accurate load utilizes Unique powder. and we shall use this one as an example. Suggested starting grains are 7.0, and the Pressure C.U.P. is 10,500. At the maximum load of 8.2 grains, Pressure C.U.P. is 14,000. A pressure of 14,000 is higher than any generated in the loads listed using a 180 grain jacketed bullet.

I would certainly avoid the "hot" loads in the Triple Lock (e.g., those listed at the high end of the range), but why should one refrain from using a jacketed bullet at all in a Triple Lock?
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Old 11-19-2016, 09:07 AM
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All I can add to this discussion is that I'm waiting for the day when an iconic handgun like this falls into my hands at such a ridiculously low price. I know you should never say never, but...
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Old 11-19-2016, 09:13 AM
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Jacketed bullets are somewhat harder on the bore as copper has a higher friction coefficient than lubricated lead. The older guns didn't have steel equivalent to more modern alloys. These guns are not going to be used for self defense or hunting, why not give them the a easy seemi retirement. I only shoot light loaded cast lead in my 455 TL that is converted to fire 45 colts.

NO, pressures do not go up at a linear rate. It is more of a geometric proportion. While it may work to get a rough estimate between 2 loads that are close together, Smokeless powder is progressive. While you might get 10,000cup from 6 gr of a powder and 16,000 from 8 of the same powder you will likely get less than 1/2 from 7. While it might work to guesstamate mid range loads and you not going to have problems working between 2 published loads, it isn't going to be linear.

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Old 11-19-2016, 10:13 AM
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That's a lot of money for this area. I have seen a blued TL at the shows here that one dealer has had for several years at $1000. Smith and Wesson revolvers are imo artificially inflated; I wouldn't put more than $500-600 in it, and that's top dollar for a 44 Special.
Let me guess, you don't own a triple lock

Blanket statements on TLs are worthless. There is no top dollar for a 44 special, because it obviously depends on the 44 special.

There are far too many variables at hand. Values in your area only matter to someone in your area...
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Old 11-19-2016, 10:23 AM
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Exactly. A gun is only worth what a buyer will pay for it. If somebody's willing to go through all the hassle of selling online, $1000 might be possible. But the point remains that TK
Ls, like all guns in general and Smith and Wesson revolvers in particular are artificially inflated prices now. I would expect some amount of market correction next year. And the OP would never get an offer in These Parts at $1000.

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Old 11-19-2016, 10:37 AM
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If they were "artificially inflated" the gun would not bring $1000 online. Do you actually think your local market establishes the national market for the gun?
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Old 11-19-2016, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by steelslaver View Post
Jacketed bullets are somewhat harder on the bore as copper has a higher friction coefficient than lubricated lead. The older guns didn't have steel equivalent to more modern alloys. These guns are not going to be used for self defense or hunting, why not give them the a easy seemi retirement. I only shoot light loaded cast lead in my 455 TL that is converted to fire 45 colts.
Well, that's as good a reason as any for me to start casting bullets. I have the molds, an RCBS melting pot, etc. It's just a matter of getting around to it.

By the way, my concealed carry weapon of choice IS a Triple Lock. Left the factory with a 4" barrel, renickeled, so you really can't harm it any.
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Old 11-10-2018, 01:22 AM
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G’day from Australia, today at a gunshot whilst looking for a pre 1946 revolver to use in a NZ service match I came upon and bought for a very low price a S&W revolver it is unusual and unfortunately because of our stupid laws I won’t have it in hand for probably 6to 8 weeks. Showing it to one of my friends at the show who knows a thing or three about S&W revolvers he said you have a very rare pistol.It is a S&W 44 New Century triple lock with a wilcock caliber conversion to .38 special the barrel and cylinders have been professionally sleeved. The serial number on the butt is **0 so it is a very early gun. To look at there is nothing special about the gun other than it having plain stocks with no s&w insert and a ramped front sight rather than the half round I have seen on pictures of other such guns. The blueing is still very good. I would be interested in any comments and to know what effect the caliber conversion has on value. I intend to shoot but not abuse the gun so the .38 cal suits me very well
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Old 11-10-2018, 09:24 AM
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G'day mate,

Congrats and my heart bleeds for you on the 6-8 weeks wait!

IDENTIFICATION:

You have an historical model; BUT IS IT:

The 1st N frame and 1st 44 Special Hand Ejector swing out cyl built by S&W. A unique design with a middle cyl lock, i.e., 3rd lock. A three digit # would have checkered stocks w/no medallions.

OR:

A 3 digit serial # is indeed low which most likely makes it a British Svc Revolver for the commonwealth, originally chambered for the 455 MkI & MkII. These ~5800 TLs started with #1 in the British military contract range, with about 7303 total produced on TL frames. The grips would be checkered with recessed gold medallions.
Is there a penciled # on the back side of the right grip that matches the gun #?
Does it have a lanyard swivel in the butt?


VALUE:

Finding these converted to smaller calibers that were legal in the commonwealth after the war is not unusual. Being originally a 455 BSR will lower the value some from an original 1908 to 1915 44 TL in equal condition. Converted from 455 negates all military collector value especially with front sight alteration. So it's relegated to a shooter value even with lots of blue (after a conversion likely not original blue).

Without seeing it, I can only guess at stateside value here: $500 to $800 ball park.


ORIGINAL 44 TL HISTORY (updated):

The .44 Triple Lock (especially a target model) is one of the Holy Grail S&Ws and very first N frame (large size) Hand Ejector .44 special Revolver! Officially it's a “44 Military – Model 1908” in catalogs and also marketed as the “New Century". Boxes marked exactly: “S.&W. .44 Special”. It was introduced in 1908 along with the brand new .44 S&W Special cartridge. It has the unique feature of a third cyl lock in front of the cylinder, a feature not seen before or since, which gave it the collector nick name of Triple Lock. This revolver is the pinnacle of S&W engineering design and craftsmanship. Only 15,375* were made, estimated 10 % of these, were Target Models, most chambered in .44 Spl and a few in other calibers: 38-40, 44-40, 44 Russian, non BSR** 455s, and 45 Colt (only 23 made in 45 Colt according to Roy Jinks) until discontinued in 1915. Most don’t realize that the very earliest TLs were 4 screws, lacking the front trigger guard screw like the early M&P K frames.

*This does not include ~ 2 dozen prototypes in 45 Spl for the 1906 Army trials or the dozen or so Club Guns in 44 Russ or 44 Spl made from the unused prototypes and with a zero serial # 1st digit.

**Of the 15,375 standard “44 HE 1st Model TLs” produced in the 44 serial Range, 812 and 691 were made as “44 Hand Ejector 1st Model TLs” chambered in 455. Add another ~5800 built as “.455 HE 1st Model TLs” under military contract in the British Commonwealth serial # range for WW I, (some of all 455 groups were sold commercially), for a grand total of ~21,175 Triple Locks.

The three locks are under the barrel in the extractor rod shroud, back of the cyl, and the 3rd lock, hence the nickname "Triple Lock", in the yoke at the front of the cyl. They all release simultaneously with a push of the cyl release thumb piece. The locking pin is sprung to the front, opposite from any other N frame, therefore there is no 'divot' in the TL recoil shield unlike all other N frames.

The front and middle locks are shown below. The TL craftsmanship is superb and a marvel of precision hand fitting, the panache of yesteryear that we will never see again:


Photos by Driftwood Johnson



Photos by Driftwood Johnson





Photo credit: bmcgilvray


CYL DETENT Hold Open Device:

TLs have a classic old feature to keep the cyl open when loading/unloading and prevent it from slamming closed if the gun is tipped to the right slightly and scratching the recoil shield with the extractor star.

The cylinder hold open device or detent was introduced on the very 1st hand ejector, the ".32 HE Model 1896, 1st Model". It was used and continued in pre WW I K frames beginning on the 38 M&P Model of 1899, and used in most pre WWI, pre WW II, and some post war Transitional N frame HEs. Another example of old world panache Smith was known for that we won't ever see again.

Important Note: if you remove the yoke beware of the cyl detent pin and spring! If you aren't aware, it can launch across the room to no man knows where! If it's missing, that's likely what happened to it. But it may also be rusted stuck down in the hole.

Plunger shown here in bottom of yoke and has a spring underneath it:



It was replaced with the 2nd Model ".44 Hand Ejector” which did not have the 3rd lock or the barrel shroud, and had a barrel lug for the front locking bolt like this:

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Old 11-10-2018, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by mrcvs View Post
Well, that's as good a reason as any for me to start casting bullets. I have the molds, an RCBS melting pot, etc. It's just a matter of getting around to it.

By the way, my concealed carry weapon of choice IS a Triple Lock. Left the factory with a 4" barrel, renickeled, so you really can't harm it any.
Love that gun.

As for the OP. TWOFIFTY???????????????? Where do you guys find this stuff? Sheeeeez. I don't care if it was refinished 3x at that price. Well, as long as it still worked. LOL.
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Old 11-10-2018, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Abilened View Post
G’day from Australia, today at a gunshot whilst looking for a pre 1946 revolver to use in a NZ service match
Fascinating.
I suggest you start a new thread with pictures when you have it in hand; instead of tailing onto a discussion already two years old.
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Old 11-10-2018, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abilened View Post
G’day from Australia, today at a gunshot whilst looking for a pre 1946 revolver to use in a NZ service match I came upon and bought for a very low price a S&W revolver it is unusual and unfortunately because of our stupid laws I won’t have it in hand for probably 6to 8 weeks. Showing it to one of my friends at the show who knows a thing or three about S&W revolvers he said you have a very rare pistol.It is a S&W 44 New Century triple lock with a wilcock caliber conversion to .38 special the barrel and cylinders have been professionally sleeved. The serial number on the butt is **0 so it is a very early gun. To look at there is nothing special about the gun other than it having plain stocks with no s&w insert and a ramped front sight rather than the half round I have seen on pictures of other such guns. The blueing is still very good. I would be interested in any comments and to know what effect the caliber conversion has on value. I intend to shoot but not abuse the gun so the .38 cal suits me very well
That sounds really interesting. As Jim (Hondo44) pointed out, there are two Triple Lock numbering series with overlapping serial numbers -- up to a point. With a three-digit serial number, your gun began life either as a .44 HE First Model that probably shipped in the 1908-1911 range, or it is a .455 HE First Model, in which case it was shipped in late 1914 under a British military supplies contract.

It wasn't clear to me if your gun has adjustable rear sights to go with the ramped front sight. It is also not clear to me if the original front sight was replaced with a ramped base that holds a Patridge (or some other) blade, or if the original half round sight was simply flattened on the back side so there is a straight ramp from the barrel of the gun up to the top point of the original half-round.

I have .455 HE No. 358 (October 1914), fixed sights, that still chambers .455, but has been modified to allow use of the .45 Colt cartridge as well -- not .45 ACP, but the longer cartridge with the rimmed case. Its sights have not been modified. I also have a .455 HE Second Model that has been egregiously modified with a blocky postwar adjustable Micro sight that requires a ramped front sight so tall it looks like the conning tower on a submarine. But no second model has a three-digit serial number, as S&W simply continued the serial sequence laid down in the production of the first model.

Is the barrel on the gun you just bought labeled for its original caliber? On conversion, sometimes the original chambering stamp was erased and perhaps restruck with the new caliber, or the new caliber was stamped above or to the side of the original caliber marking. If yours is an early .44 barrel, it might not be marked at all. I believe all .455 barrels were marked with that designation. I also wondered if you noticed any of the proof marks that are found on British contract guns released for commercial sale

I am unfamiliar with Wilcock conversions, so I don't know when your revolver might have been modified.

Several months ago Hondo44 had a thread going about barrel markings on the different early .44 and .455 revolvers. There might be some information there of interest. If I weren't so tired I would look it up and post the link right now, but maybe Jim will do it if he sees this post. And I hope he will correct me if I have mischaracterized the barrel markings that he collected and summarized.

I'd really like to see photos of this gun when you finally have it in your hands. And please do start a fresh thread for it. Singular revolvers deserve their own threads.
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Old 11-12-2018, 04:24 AM
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Here's the link to: ".455 British Svc Revolver Research Thread" a study of which barrels were Cartridge marked also showing many ship dates: thx to all the members that participated!

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-han...ch-thread.html

While I was at it, I posted the latest version as of today.

David is correct, there is only a SMITH & WESSON MARKING; no Cartridge/Cal marking on the TL 455 BSRs with rare exception. Nor on many of the 1st 20,000 or so 455 2nd Models.

The TL 44s are most all marked, but the 1st of them thru the middle of 3 digit S/Ns were only marked "44 S&W CTG", but marked "44 S&W SPECIAL CTG" for the duration of production. Odd cartridge chamberings were almost never marked.
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Old 09-01-2021, 04:37 PM
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I think mine was was refinished also hammer and trigger on mine are incorrectly nickel.i don't know how to add pictures yet
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Old 09-01-2021, 05:32 PM
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I think mine was was refinished also hammer and trigger on mine are incorrectly nickel.i don't know how to add pictures yet

Welcome to the Forum.

Please post pictures. This forum LOVES pictures!
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Old 09-01-2021, 09:43 PM
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I'm still trying figure out how to upload pictures..I'd love to show it... thanks for the welcome
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Old 09-05-2021, 09:53 PM
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Old 09-06-2021, 12:58 AM
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Imgur: The magic of the Internet
This is the link to my triple lock pics

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