Well, It finally happened to me! I found one of my grail guns right here in my own backyard so to speak. I present to you a most excellent Post War 38/44 Transitional Outdoorsman with the super scarce Reg Mag checkered barrel. The gun looks to me as though it just left the factory and shows no evidence of firing that I can see. I know, no one could know that for sure, but look at the forthcomming pics. AND it comes with it's original maroon transitional box numbered to the gun.

Here's the story. My good friend Richard (who I worked at FedEx with for 30yrs) knew a local friend that had this gun and he wanted to sell it. His friend (now my friend too) only had the gun for 3 months but knew it was too nice to shoot. I believe he bought it from a a friend that bought it from the original owner (now deceased). Since he is a shooter and not a collector he told Richard he wanted to sell it. My new friend is knowledgable and knew what he had. He was aware of the scarcity of the barrel.

For educational purposes and for my fellow collectors I gladly disclose the sale price as $2500. Now that's a whole lot of money in my book. But I only slept on it one night and closed the deal the very next day. There are two transitional outdoorsmans on the gun boards right now with starting prices higher than that with no box. Since I didn't have that kind of disposable income I sold two guns to buy this OD. Enough of the story, lets get to the pics of this virtual time capsule from 1946!























[IMG]http://i802.photobucket.com/albums/yy303/landho2/acorn%20001_zpscz14***s.jpg[/IMG]

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Eph 2:8-9

You STOLE it!!! Awesome find


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Kris
OGCA, NRA LM

OK, some more pics....

























That pic above that shows two barrels in it is where I put my WELL seasoned Reg Mag next to the OD bbl for comparison.

In the end there were five reasons I made the effort to make the purchase. 1) The rarity of the post war transitional outdoorsman. 2) the extreme scarcity of the RM barrel. 3) The original maroon box numbered to the gun. 4) I found it locally and this one hasn't circulated in the collecting community. It crawled out of the woodwork and appears to have been in the original owners hands for decades. and 5) Last but certainly not least, the fabulous condition of the gun.

A huge bonus for me was when I got it home and looked under the S&W waxed paper I found a truly "transitional" set of paperwork. A pre war helpful hints pamplet with officer Nowka? I think that was his name. And then the new transitional company postcard introducing the new satin finish and soliciting comments from the new gun owner. These items are quite pricey when they can be found.

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Eph 2:8-9

That's a sweet gun, way better then the one I found. Nice catch, Larry

You can buy them NIB for $79.80. And you paid WHAT?

Seriously, a great find and not bad price (in today's world).

Charlie

Love it love it love it!

Congratulations!

Congratulations on a awesome find!
Having the original box & docs takes the already highly collectibility of this gun to a whole other level.

You should get your friend Richard a gift card to his favorite restaurant for this hook up!!

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Paul
SWCA #2864

Nice set up with box and papers
are you singing MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ME ?

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SWCA 1932 SWHF 135

I've seen it. Roger is being conservative. It is stunning.

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S&WCA 1729

That one is very close to mine (S696XX) which letters as shipped to Sloan's sporting Goods in NYC on 9/27/46. No checkered rib on my barrel, however, and someone shortened the barrel to 3.5 inches and extended to chambers for .357 Mag (likely for police use).

At least the alterations were very well done (but no marks on the frame indicating the changes were factory done).

Great find Roger. I would have scooped that up too.

Would really like to see what transitional paper work looks like.
Please

Howdy Rich, what I meant by transitional paperwork goes along the lines of partially what a transitional gun is. They are made up of some pre war parts and some post war parts. Well, the paperwork I got with this gun has both as well.
The helpful hints pamphlet is the earlier pre war example, while the S&W postcard is a brand new post war issue. I wish the SAT and wire brush and mop would have been in there but they weren't.
I really wish I had the capability to take better pictures. This gun really deserves it.

Roger

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Eph 2:8-9

Roger, that is a terrific score. Good for you.

If that gun appeared on a counter in front of me I would have paid that price without a moment's hesitation. In fact, I probably have been willing to pay even more. Scarcity is one thing; scarcity in that condition and with the supplementary box and papers is rarely ever seen.

Congratulations!

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David Wilson

Thanks David, I was hoping you would see these pics. I was paying close attention on your previous remarks on surviving examples of these guns. I know all we can do is make somewhat educated guesses on known survivors. But I have only heard of a VERY few in "captivity". I've seen numbers batted around from 9 to a dozen. If 200 or so of them were produced then there are several still out there. I was thrilled to find this one. I think Dick Burg had one at one time. I've never seen one offered for sale, until I found mine of course. Oh I almost forgot, GLL had TWO of them.
Also, I have to thank 1Aspenhill for his much appreciated advise when I was mulling the decision to buy it or not.

Roger

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Eph 2:8-9

I like it when the good guys find a treasure, and the new owner of this gun is definitely one of the good guys.

Congratulations Roger!

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LEX ET ORDO

Roger,
Very nice and my wallet would have jumped out of my pocket for that one. To find any maroon transition OD box is hard and probably bring close to RM Blue Boxes, so you got a real deal on the gun! Enjoy it. Glad I could help.
Bill

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38-44heavyduty.com

Outstanding example of a very unique and desirable gun,congratulations on your find.

Roger:

First of all, congrats on a beautiful piece - I'd have jumped on it in a second (but I'm an O/D / Box / Paperwork / Tools Junkie)

All three of my Transitional O/Ds shipped in January 1947 and came to me in gold boxes... No numbers on the boxes, so probably not original to the guns, although I do know that there were gold boxes being produced in late 1946/early 1947 (at least for the M&Ps as I have a couple of "S" numbered boxes that house transitional M&Ps).

Second, as a paper junkie, can you take a photo of the wax paper that came with it? I would expect it to be one of several varieties, if it is original to the package.

Third, that is the first time I think I have ever seen the "Satin Blue" finish feedback postcard. Great piece of collector paper. Also, an awful lot of marketing superlatives for a company packaging a cost saving manufacturing process...

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Richard
Engraved S&W fan

Richard, I don't think the maroon box span was very wide at all. I have seen pics of other transitional guns in them including another Trans OD.
I'm glad you asked about the gun protecting paper that was in the box. The only reason I didn't include it in my group of pictures is I wasn't sure it was original. I will say this, I have a several sheets of that waxy protective paper in other gun boxes but the one in this Outdoorsman is different.
It has images of a revolvers all over it like my other papers, only they are bigger on this one. It also says "Since 1852" but again in much bigger font.
I have a good suspicion it may actually be early and original. I won't have my camera back until tomorrow but will be glad to post up a comparison then. I was hoping someone would have a little knowledge on that subject and you just may be that somebody.
As to that company postcard, I've only seen two I think. I believe our own forum member George in SD has one up for sale now (or had one recently) and it was $150. As you can imagine I was VERY happy to find this stuff in the box.

Roger

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Eph 2:8-9

OK Richard, here's a pic of the paper this OD was wrapped in..



..and here it is next to an example of the others I have. Notice the smaller images on the right as compared to the one I found in my box.



I know LESS than nothing about these things. Your views?

Roger

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Eph 2:8-9

Knockout Outdoorsman!....I also kinda "back-doored" my way into a Transitional Outdoorsman, although not nearly as nice as this one. Is it reasonable to assume mine, Serial # S 71234, left the factory in 1947?....Edited to add that mine does not have the RM barrel.

Great find!
I also have a transition model S/N S716xx. Also, sans the RM checkering on the barrel. It rests with prewar S/N 430xx and postwar S818xx. All kinda nice to have.

Again, congratulations on a great, rare find.

Dennis

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Dennis

Roger:

I think that paper is newer than the 1970's. That's about as close as I can get, because I only know slightly more than nothing about the packaging paper (at one time there was a good post on vapor paper, but I looked for it and found that most of the photo links had expired). Here's what I have observed and think is correct:

1. I don't think pre-war guns came shipped with wax paper. In general, what I have found is that it is usually tan tissue paper like this:



2. I've seen some photos of 1940 guns (K-22/40 Masterpieces) with vapor paper. It could have been plain or had printing on it - I don't recall. Also, these guns may still have been shipped with the tan tissue paper and the vapor paper was added later.

3. I have no idea how they shipped the guns during the war - not something that I have ever spent much time on (probably doused in cosmolene and packaged in a crate of tin). I'm sure that someone out there can show us what they shipped in...

4. Early post war - I understand that they could have still been shipping with tissue paper, but I know that eventually they began shipping wrapped in "nox" vapor paper. I think the early paper was printed with black lettering. Here's a poor photo of a crinkled up piece of the paper:



5. In the 1950's and early 1960's, I believe this is an example of the nox paper (with the red lettering) that enshrouded the guns when they shipped (there was some that was white -ish and some that was more tan-ish- I don't know which is earlier):



6. After the above, I have no idea what the factory used, but I do believe that it has "Smith & Wesson" printed on the paper...

There you have it - slightly more than nothing, but only by a sliver. It would be great if someone would come and set it all straight...

... I found the thread I referenced above - not many photos, but still some good info. Evolution of Vapor Paper

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Richard
Engraved S&W fan

OK Richard, you aren't going to believe this, but my Maroon box ALSO had that plain tissue paper!! It hasn't survived as well as the box and paperwork but it is there. I never once considered it to be factory but assumed it was just added by a previous owner. It doesn't have any lettering on it at all, just plain light brown "thin" and "light duty" tissue. Mine is tattered and shredded in a few spots. But now (thanks to you and your research) it will become part of my grouping. I knew it had been there a long time due to that aged musty smell. Once again, another excellent asset to being a part of this forum.
I'm glad you are an ephemera nut.

Roger

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Eph 2:8-9

Roger:

Here's a photo of my three Transitional O/D's, all three of which shipped in January 1947:



The top two are in almost new condition. The bottom one is a well used and well loved shooter... All of them are in the S70XXX - S71XXX range.


Here's the ad for the post war Outdoorsman (notice the transitional model in the ad - but with no proud pin on the front sight).




... and a linked post of David Ballantyne's recreation the ad photo.



SOURCE: (post 13) Transitional 38/44 Outdoorsman


Makes me Smile

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Richard
Engraved S&W fan

For what its worth my very early k22, K 136 came to me with the plain thin tissue paper at the bottom of the box.

Now could it have been replaced in the last 70 years? maybe. Sure looks and smells like its been there a really long time.

I wanted it to stay in Memphis. I'm so glad you have it Roger, and I know you'll give it a good home.

Phil

Well Phil, you obviously "made" my Christmas for me. In fact, when my wife asked me what I wanted this year for Christmas I actually smiled and told her "nothing, I already got it". And she knew I meant it. After I explained to her what this gun really is she was actually happy for me. That hasn't happened before with any of my other guns. Of all the people you could have sold it to I don't think any would appreciate it any more than me.
I try to keep it all in perspective and remember that it is just a material thing. So with that in mind, I'll just say Thank You....

...and Merry Christmas!

Roger

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Eph 2:8-9