Does the little "4" mean that this Model of 1902 was redone at the factory?



Are these refinished grips from approx. 1904:

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The factory re-work mark, if applied, was a star, plus a date code under the grip panel on the grip frame.

I also think you may be over-interpreting this "4". While one could see the number with a bit of imagination, it could also be just a random ding of sorts.

The stocks are the correct concave-top pre-1910 style and look to be in VERY good shape. Whether they are replicas, re-finished, or just remarkably preserved, I am not able to judge.

I must be blind....I don't see a "little 4" next to the serial number.

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I blew up the "4" and it does not appear to be a stamped "4"

How about the grips.
Could those be from approx. 1904?

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I edited while you typed . See additional comment on stocks.

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I think the grips look correct for the period. I am not an expert by any means....looking at edition 3 of the Catalog.

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Thank you for the information

The gun letters to 1904
But to me it seems too nice not to have been redone

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One of our members, I think Mike Priwer, has some nice comparative photos of the different early styles he has posted before. I can't find them right now.

The style on the OP's gun was used until about 1910, no medallion and a concave or "dished" round top; so they are definitely correct for 1904. Then followed an in-set gold-colored medallion until 1920, then a convex "bulging" non-medallion round top until 1930, then a silver medallion until the war.

I'm quite comfortable saying the 4 is not a factory service mark-----will bet money on that. I'm a little bit less comfortable saying it's a fitter's/inspector's mark which should have been stamped on the side of the grip frame---down at the bottom---as in "Oops!".

Ralph Tremaine

I have such grips (numbered to the gun) on a TLT shipped early 1909---February I think. I don't recall when they started with that style, but you'll almost certainly find that in the grip article in the SCSW.

And as far as "------too nice not to have been redone" goes, that 1909 item above is a 98% gun (original)---a 1906 piece that's better---a couple of 190? single shots that are brand new---and on it goes. Don't let your imagination get in the way of counting your blessings!!

I have guns either side of OPs SN, one about 250 earlier that dates to 9/1905, and one about 2000 higher dated 1/1906.


I have to go with the gun has been re-finished, largely because there is no burring around the mark OP believes is a 4, and how the SN becomes very shallow, progressively shallower toward the end. I believe that at least the bottom of the grip frame has been polished. I have never seen an obviously original gun display this shallowing of the SN. The sideplate joint does looK like the finish may be original, or at least a factory re-finish. I would like to see a photo of the left side of the grip frame to see if there is a service date stamped there. I do not see a 4 either, just what seem to be two random nicks that intersect.

I have no additional info regarding the mystery mark on the butt. I will however offer my opinion that the gun in those pics does not offer any definitive signs of a refinish. The side plate seam is spot on. We would need shots of both sides of the gun to say with any certainty. As for the grips, they are most definitely correct for that era.

When the square butt K frames debuted in 1904, this (the OP's grip) was the first grip type made for those revolvers. It is known as the "concave" variety, and is sometimes called "scalloped". This grip type was also seen on the initial triple lock revolvers. This grip type was replaced with the large recessed medallion grip variety in approx. 1910. In about 1920, the so called "convex" grip variety debuted which is much more common.

Here is the recessed gold medallion grip variety which replaced the OP's grip type found on my 1905 4th change M&P (bottom)



The later convex grip variety arrived in approx. 1920. This grip type is often confused with the OP's grip variety. These convex grips are noticeably different at top, and were made in much larger numbers than the OP's concave grip variety.

Here is that convex grip type seen on a 1905 4th change 32-20 target from my collection

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}-----Jim----->
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As the subject gun of this thread, 38 M&P Target M-1902, s/n 60041, is in my possession, I feel fairly well qualified to answer the questions raised by the OP and other Forum members.

The 'little 4' is a tiny ding, not a number or other factory mark. The last two digits of the serial number are a light roll strike, almost certainly from weak or worn die stamps. The grips are original, numbered to the gun and have not been refinished. The blue finish is 100% original - guaranteed.

Feel free to call or email with any additional questions...

David Carroll

205-531-7002

[email protected]