Collecter vs Shooter

[VNK971]

Being new to the community I'm wondering what makes a gun a shooter out of one that was at one time a collectable, other than the obvious rust, damage, etc. Getting started at my age I can't buy something new and put it in the safe. I also like the older revolvers much more than todays automatics.

[murphydog]

Condition, demand (desirability) and rarity all factor into the equation. A gun "of a certain age" with minimal to no wear is probably collectible no matter how many were made; a well used gun of the same era would be more of a shooter. A Registered Magnum is in demand in pretty much any condition, but you can find more modern guns with far lower production numbers that are not as sought after, and one with any significant wear many would consider to be a shooter.

Clear as mud, right?

[retiredbadge8091]

Something that's fairly rare and in like new condition would qualify for Safe Queen status. I'm interested in classics that I can shoot. A bit of missing bluing at the end of the barrel or a heavy turn line, but still something to be proud of is what I'm after. I want to shoot em... That's why they made em.

[susieqz]

a collectable gun is one that crazy people pay lots of money for.
i buy a gun, i shoot a gun.
older may be better in either case. my 15-4 was built in 1980 n i'm convinced s&w can't make one as good as that today.

[DWalt]

It all depends as to whether there is adequate collector demand. No matter what the item (guns or anything else), there will always be some which have no, or very little, collector demand even in brand new condition. Think of a pot metal Saturday Night Special. Case in point - last weekend I ran across a guy who wanted to sell or trade a Hi-Point .45 pistol, wanted $350 for it because he thought it was "collectible". Even for someone who wanted it, you could probably go out and buy a new one for $150 or less. And it is in no way collectible, and probably never will be. Another consideration is that what is in high collector demand today may not be tomorrow. And vice-versa. I imagine that 50 or so years ago, a Registered Magnum sold for little to no premium over any other N-frame in similar condition. It was just another gun.

Otherwise, it comes down to scarcity and condition, and possibly other factors such as a specific association with some famous or notorious person and/or historical event (like John Wilkes Booth's Deringer or Jack Ruby's Colt Cobra).

[RKmesa]

Originally Posted by susieqz

a collectible gun is one that crazy people pay lots of money for.

...with that thought in mind, this S&W Forum is really more of a "mental institution" for a bunch of crazy people - myself included.

BTW - I happen to agree with you, that it is crazy what some of us are willing to pay for the "good stuff".

[THE PILGRIM]

After you consider rarity, condition, desirability, historic factors and all those kinds of things -
When it's your gun, it's your decision what you do with it.
When it's still the other guys gun, these factors tend to dictate the asking price.

[quinn]

Welcome to the forum from another Texan. IMHO, anything can be collectible... snd, as DWalt said, today's treasure may be tomorrow's trash. But, I think that a lot depends on the person. Some would look at my Registered Magnum and regard it as a shooter with no collector value in their eyes. To me it is very collectible as it is the nicest RM that I can afford. A whole lot can depend on budget and perspective. From a Lone Star perspective, however, if it was ever carried by a Texas Ranger or used at the Alamo--It IS COLLECTIBLE!

[Mistered]

a collectable gun is one that crazy people pay lots of money for.

Like the Pythons I see for $2500-$3000 I see at shows/LGSs' - don't see a lot of payin' however - just a lot of askin' !

[rwsmith]

....that has spent most of it's life in a sock drawer or even taken out and fired a couple of times a year makes a fantastic shooter. I bought a Chief's Special with a few scratches but otherwise looked very good. It's a great shooter and I don't even pay attention to the scratches. I'm biased because I am VERY unlikely to buy a gun for collector value. If I can't shoot it, I don't want it.

[BAM-BAM]

"It's a strange strange world we live in Master Jack.........."

Collectible vs Shooters............Beanie Babies vs junk..........

Short story............................

In 1988 or was it 89..... a gunsmith friend brought me a S&W Model 66 with a 3 inch barrel vs the standard "snubby" 66 length back then of 2 1/2 inches.

A Distributor with a local operation ..... had a "bunch" sitting on the shelf for over a year...... nobody wanted them ...... they were old school and didn't come with a 15 rd magazine.........IIRC the distributor was willing to part with those "dogs" for a couple of bucks over $200...... I got two; one for me and one for my Dad............

I added a set of Spegel Boot grips to both ($<$40) and still carry and shoot one to this day........and will until they bury me with it!!!!!

I've got my Dad's and a 3rd I found in a LGS about 15 years ago for $325......I've got the box/docs for the original two.........

to me a 3" 66 is the ultimate concealed carry revolver.....now selling for $1000-1,500 or more....................

Shooter or collectible???????? Only about 5000 made 66-2 to -4s; about the same number as the Register Magnums in the 30s.....Collectible or shooters?....... all in the eye of the beholder!!!!

[Jbearwebb]

I'm the guy that always asks the dumb questions, but what is a "Registered Magnum" ?


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[BAM-BAM]

Originally Posted by Jbearwebb

I'm the guy that always asks the dumb questions, but what is a "Registered Magnum" ?


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The first .357magnum........ introduced by S&W in 1935 .... discontinued in 1940 at about # 5xxx..........

bunch of other cooooool stuff....... others will fill in

about half accounted for .......bring $3000 for "shooters" to $$$$$$ with box/docs/ reg certificate today.

First one went to J Edger Hoover ..... Patton carried one as part of his 2gun rig..... his "killing gun"!

[DWalt]

The RM was exactly that. The purchaser could get a certificate for it, registering it in the factory records to him, and a RM with its original certificate is a very valuable combination. Those are stamped "Reg. xxx" (xxx being the registration number) on the frame in the yoke area. The RMs were basically custom-made to the customer's desires regarding barrel length, sort of the equivalent to a Rolex watch, lots of snob appeal. It was too much of a hassle for S&W to continue the practice of registration, so they dropped it in 1940. Actually, the 1940 "non-Registered Magnums" are more scarce than the RMs.

[RKmesa]

Originally Posted by Jbearwebb

I'm the guy that always asks the dumb questions, but what is a "Registered Magnum" ?

One of these...

3.5" Barrel:




5" Barrel:




6" Barrel:




8.375" Barrel:

[Jbearwebb]

Those pics answer the OP's question! Those are not shooters. Awesome!


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[DocB]

The age/condition factor is really the big one. . .I like to combine them. Somebody posted an old Smith 44 from the 1880's a while back. Without adjusting the grading for the age of the gun, it was around 85%. Everybody had a fit, including me! Had never seen one that nice. On the other hand, I have a pre Model 10 in around 85% condition either in my glove box or under the seat of my truck. I know it's in my truck somewhere! It was made in 1948. Now, if it was mint in the box, it would be a safe queen instead of a truck gun.

[deadin]

Collector vs. Shooter???

I would say that that distinction is up to the owner and what they want to do with it.
I have guns that many would consider as "non-collectable" because of condition, but are very collectable to me because of their place in history. (I am more interested in form & function that I am in condition.)
The other side of this coin would be the vaunted RM. I have no interest in this gun. Yes, I would buy one if I got a screaming deal, but I doubt I would keep it. It would get moved on to finance things that do interest me.

[snuffy51]

I have a very simple formula for determining. If I can afford one, it is a shooter.

[Laketime]

The way things are heading , any mechanically sound older revolver ( pre lock) will have achieved some collector value over the next 30 yrs.

[Frank46]

While not a collector I do consider myself an accumulator of sorts. When military surplus rifles were relatively cheap 25 or so years ago it was fairly easy to find nice ones with beautiful bores. Today you have to look harder and more $$$. Since I lived in NYC handguns were out although I did have a target and hunting license. And since moving out of NY to a more gun friendly state handguns are something I really like to shoot. With the exception of my 44 specials (all S&W) none of what I have would be considered as truly collectable they are all shooters. Just standard used S&W's and some mil surp handguns all have character and love them that way. Frank

[lowriderfxr]

A shooter is something you want to keep or someone wants to buy from you.

A collector is something for sale , especially on gunbroker. It is also rare and seldom seen.

[delta-419]

Collections are what happens when you have been through the full range of guns that cross your path from the day you shoot your first one to the cool ones you see in your favorite movie. Maybe like the Luger your uncle brought home from the war. Or maybe like the Colt Navy your great, great uncle used at Pea Ridge, just maybe like your great granddad who carried a 1917 in France in WWI. It might be like a 38/44 a Texas lawman carried in the 1930s, or maybe a Colt 1911 used in Nam. Or simply the time your dad shared with you shooting tin cans with the old 22 S&W.You gravitate to what catches your eye, the feel of it when you pick it up, if you used them because your life depended on them, they are old friends. I have collected NIB guns and everything in between. My collections and interests have changed over the years as shooters have become more and more interesting to me. Guns with Karma, so to speak, the big N frame 44 specials and 45s of past generations, the "brown guns". Collections can be an investment in future dollars but I think it is more basic then that. The hunt for "a hard to find" generates excitement and as the passion excellerates the hunt becomes more intense. The hunt for big prewar N frames has become an obsession and their prices have become stellar in recent years in just about any condition. Welcome to the world of collecting S&Ws, buckle up its going to be a wild ride!

[hkcavalier]

I'm with the OP --- I want shooters. If I stumbled across a perfect Registered Magnum or other collectible gun, I'd likely sell it and get two or three shooters. While I appreciate the art and craftsmanship behind some of the examples on here, if it's too pretty to shoot it's just eye candy.

I totally get being younger and not into plastic automatics. I carry them, they work, but there's nothing particularly interesting about them. They're Camrys and Accords...they get you there and back but won't wow anyone. I still don't know why people blow $2,000 on customizing a carry Glock or M&P when the result isn't any more useful under stress.

Most guys here start with something they can get their hands on and go from there. It could be an old beater .38 or .44 Special, a newer 586 or 686 .357, a pawn shop 629 .44 Magnum, or anything in between. Mine was a 686 and now I have 5 with another coming soon!

[gkitch]

My observation is that collecting and shooting tie into each other very closely. What is loved by shooters becomes valued by collectors for the most part. Shooters, hunters, and warriors want what works best for their era while admiring (and often desiring) the "best" of yesteryear.

The most valuable guns seem to be those that appeal to both the shooters AND collectors.

[sodacan]

My collection has a lot of high condition shooters. Not terribly rare, but models that many collectors wouldn't turn down. I really like post-war, pre-model number revolvers. They do attract attention at the range when surrounded by plastic.

[THE PILGRIM]

Also, size does count!
For example, Any factory 45 Colt caliber Smith will draw a crowd.

[DWalt]

Remember those days when you could walk into about any pawn shop in America and buy a Luger or a P-38 for $25?

[Waveski]

Originally Posted by Laketime

The way things are heading , any mechanically sound older revolver ( pre lock) will have achieved some collector value over the next 30 yrs.

That's how I look at it. I have three K frames , man. years 1903 , 1909 and 1931. All have "honest wear" and function beautifully. Shooters , yes. Collectible...? A friend commented recently that he did not understand why I spend money on revolvers which are not in pristine condition. Simple , I say - I can afford them - cannot afford LNIB - I can shoot them , and there is only one way that their value is going to go.

Like Snuffy said - "I have a very simple formula for determining. If I can afford one, it is a shooter."

BUT , they ain't making 'em anymore , so in the future people are going to want them. Looks to me that prices are going up as we speak.

[hkcavalier]

Originally Posted by DWalt

Remember those days when you could walk into about any pawn shop in America and buy a Luger or a P-38 for $25?

No...I wasn't born before WWII

On a serious note, it's true that the "cheap" days of gun collecting are over. The Internet is the prime culprit, both for sellers and for buyers. I'm reminded of this when I read Peter Kokalis's excellent articles in Firearms News re: machineguns and WWII weaponry. His collection would be impossible to assemble now without seven or even eight figures of cold hard cash (not to mention all the waiting on NFA transfers). Mr. Kokalis did not spend nearly that amount on his collection, but FOPA and other factors have driven it into the stratosphere.

I do have hope though...I know of a local collector who's not much older than I am, and he has 150+ very nice S&W revolvers, mostly high end shooters or safe queens. But he's been doing it since he turned 21.