I'am new with this forum, I have just acguired a s&w 1917 revolver. The revolver is chambered for a 45 long colt. On the backside of the cylinder are Canadian proofs, crossed lances with the letters DCP and a crown. These proofs are in between each chamber. There is also one below the barrel lug. There are English proof marks on the frame just above the grip. The barrel is 6.5 inches on the left side of the barrel in two lines, the top line is marked 45 cal S W, the bottom line is marked SMITH&WESSON. I have read that these pistols where cambered for 455 cal and that would be indicated so on the barrel. The above mentioned logo has not been altered. The English proofs are a crown with letters T S.E below and a crown with 5 G. And Roman # II. The serial number on the frame and on the bottom of the barrel match. May question is could this weapon been chambered for 45 long colt at the factory and never made it to Canada in ww1. Thank you for your time.

It is probably not a Model 1917. What exactly is stamped on the butt? I think you have a “.455 Mk II HE 2nd Model”. Can you see a SN stamped on the rear face of the cylinder and does it match? Can you supply some good clear pictures of your revolver, especially the rear face of the cylinder? It has probably been converted to .45 Colt.

Welcome to the forum.

Contingent on more information, like the serial number on the cyl and if it matches the frame and barrel; I'd say you have a relatively scarce version of the British Contract revolver "455 Hand Ejector-2nd Model" chambered in 45 Colt for the Canadians, The 45 Cal on the barrel is the tip off. You will find details below under version #3:

There are three basic versions of .455 Mk II (Webley) chambered Hand Ejector revolvers made by S&W under contract to the British for WW I. All three versions include some triple locks. The .455 (Webley) Mk II when stamped by S&W, refers to the cartridge, not the revolver. However the 455 HE 2nd Models (3rd version below) were stamped II for “Mark II Revolver” by the British on the left rear frame of the revolvers and are known as such by them.

The 3 Versions of .455 Mk II Hand Ejectors (actually all were chamber reamed long enough to also accommodate the longer .455 Webley Mk I cartridge per the British contract. So the model name is a bit of a misnomer), for the British are:

1. “.44 HE 1st Model”, ‘Triple Lock’ converted to .455 chambering: 812* factory reconfigured, unassembled or unsold ".44 Spl HE 1st Models", often not stamped .455, original chamberings unknown, most or all likely .44 Spl, 666 for the British #1104 thru 10417 (obviously not all serial #s in this range were used for the 666), the extra 146 in serial range #9858-10007 for the commercial market; 123 in England and 23 in the US [N&J pgs. 204-205]. These 812 .455 TLs were serial #’d in the .44 1st Model serial # range of 1 to 15375. The 666 were shipped in 33 different groups ranging from 4/8/14 to 4/28/16 with the majority delivered 10/21/14. These will often have added lanyard swivels when converted to 455 at the factory by drilling thru the serial # which is factory re-stamped on the left side of the grip frame under the stock.

* SCSW reports "over 800", but by shipped serial # count, it’s actually 812, 146 of which are commercial guns [S&WN&J pgs. 203, 204 & 205].

NOTE: Of the 146 .44 HE 1st Models that were converted/built as .455s assembled some time after the first 666 military .44 1st Model .455 TLs and sold commercially, 123 were sold to the British, shipped to Wilkinson Sword 10/1/14 and 23 sold in the US, shipped to Shapleigh Hardware in St. Louis, MO. on 1/1/1918.

The 23 at some point were converted to .45 Colt and it’s unknown if by the factory before shipment to Shapleigh or after delivery to Shapleigh. However even IF converted by the factory (as suggested in a September 2013 Rock Island gun auction narrative), the revolvers would not have a star on the butt or a rework date on the grip frame because they did not go back to the factory for conversion as rework, they were converted before they left the factory.

2. “.455 Mk II HE 1st Model”, TL in the new .455 British serial # range 1 to #5461 [H of S&W pg. 201] made 1914-15; thus creating a possible ~ 68* duplicate serial #s of the 812 “.44 HE 1st Model TLs”, also in .455 in 1. above.

*About Duplicate 44 HE series serial #s with Brit contract series S/Ns:

Duplicate numbers of the 666 .44 HE TLs chambered in .455 (#1104-10417 in the 44 HE range - not all inclusive, are known and published) + 146 (#9858-10007 .44 HE range - not all inclusive, are published as well), can exist with 68 of the .455 HE 1st Model TLs (#1–5461 in the Brit contract # range), and with the .455 2nd Models (#5462 and up to #15375 - the last .44 HE 1st Model serial #) in the Brit range.

3. “.455 Mk II HE 2nd Model” (sans extractor barrel shroud and 3rd lock, but with slightly larger cylinder/frame window dimensions from the ".44 HE 1st Model Triple Lock" factory converted to .455, and ".455 HE 1st Model TL" of versions 1. and 2., .455s respectively. The 2nd Model continued in the .455 1st Model TL Brit serial range beginning #5462 to #74755, shipped 1915-17. By Feb 1916 724* were manufactured for the Canadians, chambered in 45 Colt, presumed for the RCMP [H of S&W, pg. 203]. Another 15 in 45 Colt were sold commercially in 1916. The Canadian military also bought 14,500 .455 2nd Models. And 1105 2nd Models were released for commercial sales in the US, shipped Dec 1917 to Shapleigh Hardware in St. Louis [S&W, N&J pg. 216].


*””Roy's comments on that model might be helpful here [regarding an original Factory .45 Colt # 747xx that shipped on May 4, 1917]: "Between April and June 1917 Smith & Wesson manufactured 700 units of 2nd Models that are listed in the manufacturing records as .45 Colt caliber. Unfortunately the manufacturing records did not record serial numbers. The shipping records for this model list, in this same time period, the sale of 703 units, but the shipping records do not list the caliber. I am positive that the sale of these 703 units are the .45 Colt listed in the manufacturing records. The extra 3 units could have been manufactured from revolvers that had already been assembled. ”Roy Jinks” Bob (Bettis1)

“The 727 [724]number could be correct but there have only been a small number that are from this shipment. less that 20 documented.” Jim Fisher ‘bmg60’
2nd Model Hand Ejector - 45 LC?

__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819

If it has foreign proofs and property markings, it probably made it to those countries. I don't think the factory ever applied those markings.


Now, this is NOT a M-1917 with a longer barrel. The US Govt. made S&W heat treat M-1917 cylinders, but the .455 cylinders were NOT so treated and are less safe with higher pressure handloads.


IF your gun has in fact been converted to .45 Colt, go easy on handloads. Actually, if it's still a .455, limit handloads to .455 MKI/.455 Colt specs, a 265 grain bullet at about 750 FPS. This is a lot better than .455 MK II ammo.


The barrel caliber marking makes me suspect a .45 conversion.


Thanks to Hondo above for his remarkable explanation of these guns. Pictures are wanted, but the II marking suggests that you almost surely have a MK II HE .455 that has probably been converted to .45 Colt. Does .45 Colt ammo fit the cylinder right?

thanks for the info, that is alot of information to take in and thanks to Hondo for that. The revolver chambers a 45 long colt and the sn#15258 is the same on frame of the grip and the cylinder and on the underside of the barrel. the canadian proof mark is stamped over the sn# on the cylinder. thanks again this is real interesting.

Thanks for all the info and to the question of DWalt in regard to the serial # it is the same on the frame the cylinder and the under side of the barrel. The sn # appears on the back of the cylinder and the canadian proof mark is stamped over it. The sn # is 152xx does this help any. Thanks for your time