Hi all, new guy here looking for some assistance on the value and any other information you experts may be willing to share about my 1932?? Smith and Wesson military and police .38. This was in my great grandfathers collection and I believe it was unfired until I got it and put 25 rounds through it. I have the original inner and outer box, original factory target and wax paper. The serial # is 632958.

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Sorry, can't figure out how to attach multiple files to my original post.

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Other side.

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Factory target, serial # on target matches serial # on the butt of the pistol.

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Very very nice. Tough to date anything from the 1930s by SN, as during the Great Depression, gun sales were WAY down and inventory might take years to ship. But it's probable yours shipped during the 1931-33 period, likely assembled in 1930 or 1931. Value? In that condition and with the box and outer box covering, I'd say $700-$900 at gun show prices. and maybe even a little more to the right buyer. There would be a lot of interest in it.

Welcome to the forum! Great entrance!

It's interesting as it looks like a "half target" with a replaced front sight. I wonder if it is factory. It would be worth the $75 to get a factory letter to me.

How do I go about getting a factory letter? Is that just submitting photos and serial # to S&W? And I'm just curious on the value, I have no intentions on selling. I also have the same pistol in .32 caliber that has the same front sight and is from around the same year, but I don't have the factory target for that but do have the inner and outer box and it has "rumson pd" stamped on the butt of the gun. My great grandfather was a prominent lawyer in New Jersey and can only speculate as to why I'm in possession of almost 100 S&W and Colt revolvers with different department stamps on them from different towns in New Jersey.

...welcome to the forum...sounds like an interesting collection...I hope you will post more photos and interesting details...

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A Country Boy Can Survive

The shape of the front sight and the shipping sleeve and retained box suggests a serious gun owner who knew firearms and who cared for his possessions.


An impressive set...

Your 32 "in the same configuration" may be a fairly rare gun that should be lettered. Please post some photos of it, and any others that you'd care to share with us. -S2

Good catch, it does not fit in the box the way it should and tore the box. I will be posting many more threads and pictures once I sift through exactly what I have as I am splitting the collection with my brother. Also in there is a 1920's Thompson which I'm guessing I shouldn't have....

My apologies, the .32 is a colt police positive. I've got one in .32 and several .38, but there are 2 colts one .32 and one .38 that have the same front site as the smith and Wesson.

Looks like a Call gold bead in the front sight, which makes me think it might be a special order. A letter is definitely in order, as others have said. Unusual, I think, to find a Call gold bead on Colts, but maybe they all got replacement sights after purchase.

If I saw that on the consignment shelf of my LGS with a sticker price of $1250, I would try to talk them down to a thousand, and pay the full freight if they wouldn't budge. That's how much it appeals to me.

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David Wilson

Is the .38 a Police Positive or Police Positive Special? The latter will be a .38 Special with a longer frame than a basic PP, which took the shorter .38 S&W regular round, also called by a Colt name, which I've forgotten. .38 Colt New Police??


You need to research all the latest legal data for the Thompson, which is now a very valuable gun. Depending on current Federal law and your state law, you may be able to register it, pay the US transfer tax and legally own it.


If the Colts also have that front sight, it's probably been installed outside either factory, but looks like very professional work.


You clearly inherited some very nice guns!

Thank you, my brother an I are very excited to get them aside from the circumstances. Im still sorting through everything to see what I/we have, there are over 170 firearms and a ton of other cool non gun related stuff to go through (he represented some colorful characters) so I'm bouncing between boxes of guns and reading his legal material all at the same time, hard to focus on one thing. I never met the man as he died before I was born and all of this stuff has been in my grandmothers basement well stored since the early 70's.

Does anybody know if S&W shipped their revolvers with the hammer cocked? That's the only way it fits correctly in the box.

Welcome to the Forum. Since you are asking about the value of your 38 Military & Police, 4th Change, I must ask you to please stop lowering it by ripping the box and shooting an unfired gun. The box is labeled to accommodate your revolver and care needs to be taken not to rip out the corners. Also, if it was truly in an unfired condition, shooting a half-box of ammo was not wise. Actually, handling such a treasure without gloves is not the best thing to do if you want to preserve it.

Collector value is all about condition and a gun 80 year old gun without a turn line (which you put in by shooting it) is worth hundreds more than one with a turn line. Collectors look for years before finding a 100% vintage S&W and will pay big dollars for one. Others may not agree, but my opinion is that you have done yourself and your brother no good by your actions.

Value of an "As New" 4th Change is listed as $1200 and "Excellent", which is the next category down, is listed as $600. Add to that what was a perfect box would have been another $300 plus, ripped corner variety under $200. If the front sight letters to the gun as it left the factory, could have added yet more value.

Sorry to be terse, but since you ask for opinions, mine is that you should have really done your research before taking it to the range. The percentage of unfired vintage S&Ws is incredibly small and they are an important part of history and fiercely sought after by S&W collectors. It is, however, your revolver, so you can do whatever you want to with it, but one has to keep in mind what criteria determines value.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

I don't believe it to be a 1932, I think it's much earlier. Before 1921 or 1922 as it's missing the "One Line Adrress". The One Line Adrress was started in 21 or 22 (I think) and ended in April or so of 1948.
I am not going off the serial number, nor do I know the "years" that box was used.
As of right now, DWALT would know more about it than I as he tracks serial #'s for this exact reason. Many others here on the forum do as well. They'll provide more info than I.
Stick around, great folks here and THIS IS THE BEST SECTION by the way.....
Bob

The time placement by the serial number is quite unequivocal. The "MADE IN U.S.A" on the right frame should be there. It may just be the lighting, but I don't see it either, which is a bit odd. Other than that my eyes may be deceiving me, does anyone have an explanation? Is it just washed out by the camera's shadow?

Understood and thank you for your opinion, your tone was not offensive at all. I was excited to shoot one of these pistols and this was the only one that wasn't either locked up or in need of a look over prior to firing. As far as it being unfired, the test target shows it was fired, and it was just my speculation that it wasn't fired after that. The box was torn when I got it and either the pistol sits in the box on an angle, or the hammer is cocked for it to lay flat.

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It is curious the "Made in USA" stamp is not present, or at least is not visible. I did not notice that. But if the SN provided is correct, it is definitely a 1930s gun, reinforced by the correct 1930s-style grips and the barrel-shaped extractor rod knob.

Poor lighting. Also the hammer says reg us patent. The serial # is on the butt of the grip frame and is hard to read with the naked eye.

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Serial # on pistol.

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Well... there you go.
A "One Liner" (aka One Line Adrress)
Now, let's figure out this box.....
I do not know why the revolver wont fit in the box with out the hammer being cocked. My guess is the hammer was changed at some point....? Or..... if the front sight was changed from the "half coin".... would this push it farther into the box (right or left) depending how it was layed in the box?
Is there a serial # on the bottom of the box? If so does it match the revolver? Damn, this stuff is fun!
Bob

All S&W revolvers are test fired before they leave the factory, so collectors that like "unfired" guns and pay high prices for same, are really saying they are paying for guns with no drag line ring on the cylinder from the cylinder stop dragging as the cylinder revolves. Test firing at the factory usually does not leave drag mark, as only a few rounds are fired. Fire a dozen, or more, rounds and you will see the start of the drag line on blued guns. So an "unfired" S&W revolver really shouldn't exist outside of the factory, unless it's a lunch box gun or an employee made gun, and will be "open on the books." Ed.

The Made in USA" stamp is there; it's just hard to read. It also has a Large Ejector Rod Knob (LERK).

I'll wager a dollar (I'm cheap ) it shipped after June 7th, 1932.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

There is not one among us that has not made lots of mistakes in their early years of collecting, and the best we can do is learn from our and others mistakes in the future. Good luck with the collection.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

Msd's 38 M&P is the first I've seen that was accompanied by a S&W target. Registered Magnums may have had such, but I'm not even sure about that. To me, it suggests that the gun may have been a special order, perhaps with the Patridge/Call bead front sight. Question for the experts: was including a test target "Compliments of S&W" typical for guns (especially M&P's) back in the 1930's?

That gun is very intriguing; wonder to whom it was shipped. -S2

No factory shipped cocked guns, so that's one less option to consider about the box. Don't store the gun cocked. Or even in that box.


Something's very strange about that gun/box matchup.

Without the wax paper it barely fits. And I apologize for all the pics being sideways, learning this forum.

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This may explain it. Now I need to see if one of the others has the serial # that's on the bottom of the box.

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Packing tape on outer box.

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I forgot to comment on the outer sleeve. I have heard about these, but yours is the first I have seen. Most of these guns are sent to distributors, gun shops, hardware stores, etc., and would have been discarded before putting the gun on the shelf or in the case. I wonder if that revolver was shipped directly to your great-grandfather?

As for the serial number, I have seen examples of where a similar serial number stamped stock was put on the wrong gun. Honest mistake and still accepted as "matching". I can only guess, but my thought is that the boxes are a different story. This assembly should go something like this. Guns come to stations for packaging. Worker picks the correct end tag and box to match the gun. After everything is put in the box, including the gun, the worker turns the box over and places the serial number on the bottom. To transpose one number in your mind while writing would not be unusual, but that number is quite different. Still, the gun appears to fit the box very nicely without issue. Remember that the box was never constructed to last, but rather get the gun to the owner without damage. The corners of these boxes are only held together by two pieces of paper glued to the inside and outside of the pasteboard, so are inherently weak. With the sleeve and company address, I would letter it to see what you find out about the recipient and the front sight.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

When everyone says letter you are referring to the smith and Wesson historical society?

"Question for the experts: was including a test target "Compliments of S&W" typical for guns (especially M&P's) back in the 1930's?"

At least this one was. The target is SNed to the gun.

Yes. A link can be found on the Forum to download a request form. Add a check and some pictures and send off. Returns are quite fast as of recent months. You never know what you will find. At least, the front sight issue should be resolved, and, hopefully the gun was sent directly to your great-grandfather. This one might be just right for a keepsake of your ancestors to pass down to others in the family.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

"hopefully the gun was sent directly to your great-grandfather"
Don't get your hopes up about that.

I read the end of the box, and it is for a four-inch M&P .38. Why would the serial number of any gun for that size box matter?


Color me confused!


And the butt and the hammer seem to be the tight fit spots, not the front sight. BTW, I did check that the box is for a sq. butt gun, not a round butt one.

Letter request and check in the mail, can't wait to see what it says. I will post upon receipt.