My dad used an Inland M1 Carbine on Iwo Jima in 1945. He was with the advance party of the 142 Army Garrison force, and landed on the island on D-Day +5. He also carried a S&W Victory Model .38 Special.

As a senior NCO, he had access to a 1911A1, but said he couldn't hit anything with the 45. He liked the 38 revolver he carried, though, and felt he could hit what he aimed at with it. He was in the compound the night of "the "Big Banzai Charge". I know he used the carbine that night saying that it never let him down, but I don't know if he also used the revolver during the fight.

Where I am going with this, is that I finally am acquiring a Victory Model 38 Special. I won one on Gunbroker, and can't wait to get it. This will go with my Inland and all my dad's WW2 stuff to honor him, my uncles, and all of that greatest generation.

Generally, shooting martial arms always gives me a sense of History. Shooting the Inland is an intense personal experience for me, that goes above that normal sense of History. My dad and his brothers, now all gone to their eternal rest, used the Carbines in the Pacific. I hope that shooting the Victory Model will also give me that heightened sense of personal History that shooting the carbine does.

When you get the Victory, be sure to post some pictures so we can tell you what all is wrong with it. We're great at that!

Just kidding. That's actually a great story about your dad, and interesting info. One does not hear too often about Victorys having been carried in battle by regular infantry soldiers. Since the bulk of Victorys went to the Navy and the Pacific was primarily a Navy/Marine-dominated theater, they were probably easily obtained.

Thanks, I will! LOL. I bought it from a guy in Oregon, who bought it years ago from a WW2 aviator. No provenance, but I am buying the gun, not the story. Considering I got it for $300, I am not complaining!

My dad was Signals NCOIC with the Army headquarters and went on Iwo the 6th day with the advance party. He said he was never so scared in his life as the night that the main ammo dump blew up. A piece of shrapnel falling back to earth took out the middle of his cot while he was in the slit trench next to his tent.

Between daily snipers, sapper attacks, a dud type 97 grenade landing a his feet, dodging Jap artillery and bombs landing around him, and just missing stepping on a "bouncing betty" mine by one inch, he was quite convinced the Emperor wanted him dead!

I still have the minefield map he was issued, and a pre-invasion planning map, along with a bunch of his other stuff. Cherished family heirloom.

A $300 Victory from Gunbroker? C'mon - is that possible???

Can't wait to see it.

It was a Buy it now. I saw the it an hour after it posted and grabbed it

Looking at the sale on 20 Jan, its a nice looking Victory and at a very good price. Its got a bit of wear on it but it is supposed to. The lanyard ring is replaceable. Congratulations!

Yes, the great bulk of the military .38 Special Victories went to the U. S. Navy during WWII, and many of them were carried by Naval aviators. There are numerous sources for very good quality replica WWII leather holsters if you are interested.

Thanks I actually have an original S&W lanyard ring for ordered from Numrich!

I really need to come up with an ammo pouch for it, I'll never find an original. I am guessing that guys used first aid dressing pouches for some extra rounds. Knowing my dad, that's what he would have probably done.

BTW, I ordered two different Repop aircrew shoulder holsters for it. One with sewn on leather bullet loops, and one with a canvas slide over the strap for 12 rounds. I will see which I like the best, then sell the other one cheap. The guy I got the revolver from says he might still have the original holster he got with it.

I don't know what kind of holster my dad used, but I would say probably it was a belt holster, because I know he had web belt belt for his extra carbine mags and the M1 Garand bayonet he said he always carried.

The Navy had a small ammo pouch for the victory. I've seen one on GB in the last 10 years, and 1 at the gun show in Louisville last weekend. It was $150 with belt & holster, expensive but probably worth it due to rarity. I do not recall even seeing reproductions of the small pouch. I believe, but have no evidence that it was a pre-war item for "watch officers" etc. I'm an ex-AF guy so no idea what they called armed sailors in the late 1930's or early 1940's.

You know, I have my dad's belt from Iwo, including the steel ring I heard was on Signal Corp belts for pole and tree climbing. It cam with two M1 carbine pouches and two first aid pouches. when I got it from him. I would venture a guess that possibly the second pouch WAS for the revolver ammo.

I mentioned the dud Jap Type 97 grenade landing at my dad's feet. He had an ordie de-activate it. As it turned out, it had no fuse in it... Probably made by Chinese or Korean slave labor. He kept it as a reminder of how close he came. I still have it....

My father was Army Air Corps and on Guam, he brought back a Japanese artillery shell casing. I've still got it on the book case in my office.

Good for you -- I've thoroughly enjoyed reading your posts about your dad. Of all the friends I've had whose fathers were in The War very few know stories of their Dads' experiences. I count you as being very lucky to have had a father who would share all those rich and often terrifying details with you. And I thank you very much for sharing them here.

All the best,

Bob

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Wrangler of stray Chiefs
Bob

Great stories of your father! Congrats on the victory bidding on the victory!

The Type 97 that should have killed my dad is in the picture below. Items that were my dad's are both grenades (empty) the paybook, and the chevrons.



His minefield map:



His 1944 pre-invasion planning map:






When I was young, he never shared much. I was much later, after my military service, towards the end of my law enforcement career, that he began to share. It was usually after he had a couple shots of Scotch!

I have a bunch of other stuff, including: his class A coat with medals and ribbons, his Overcoat, field jacket, several 30 cal ammo cans, a bottle of Iwo Jima black volcanic sand, a lot of booklets including "How the Jap Army Fights", an oxygen bottle from a B29 that crashed on Iwo, and a bunch of lesser stuff.

Just an FYI: this revolver was actually relisted by the seller. I had originally purchased this same revolver on GB for $300 "Buy It Now" but backed out of the deal when, upon closer examination of the photos, I noticed the cylinder had been replaced with a "pre-Victory" cylinder (the cylinder notches are longer and the cylinder serial number doesn't start with a "V"). I believe the crane on this revolver may have been replaced, as well (not sure about this). Since I was planning on shooting it, I was concerned about possible headspace issues, etc.. Certainly well worth the price you paid, though, and it should display very well with your father's WWII stuff!

__________________
Gulf War Veteran

I knew about the cylinder being replaced before I bid. He clearly stated it in the current auction. I was an LE and military amorer so I wasn't worried. I planned on checking by it and fixing it if necessary. Thanks anyway for the heads up.

Some photos from the auction:











The old girl isn't "Collector grade" by any means, but for $300, I am not complaining - especially if it still shoots! LOL. I like military weapons with honest wear that show real usage. It is part of their History, and says to me..."Been there, done that!"

Well the Victory came in today. I like it. Lots of honest wear but no pitting. The bore is strong with a little frost on the cylinder end. May clean up. The cylinder timing is good and lock up perfect even when holding pressure against the rotation. Finish and wear on cylinder matches the rest of the weapon. Head space appears good. I didn't have my feeler gauges but if the gap was any less I think it would be too close. The grips are replacement I am guessing as they are oversized. I'll check inside for serial numbers when I pick it up. All in all, well worth $300!!!!

"The grips are replacement I am guessing as they are oversized."

After 10/42, the smooth wooden grips were made on a different machine and are slightly thicker (by 1/16") than the early ones. They were probably made very quickly, not requiring checkering or attachment of medallions. Factory notes call it an Onsrud machine, which was probably of a multi-pantograph design. The Onsrud company is still in the business of making various types of machine tools.

Thanks. If the numbers do not match on the grips. I have another set of Victory grips that may fit better.

I picked up a nice shoulder holster with 12 leather cartridge loops on the strap from Great War Supply and a lanyard ring from Numrich. Should look great with my Inland M1 Carbine.

Update: went buy and checked inside the grips: no serial number, and condition is MUCH better than the rest of the weapon. Obvious replacement. I have another set of grips that should be a better match.

I also checked and the serial number on underside of barrel and bottom of grip frame match. V 8657. Very early for a Victory, as I understand, but not unheard of.

V 8657 probably shipped in mid-1942. There is no particular desirability premium to having a low SN. Unless it is V1 thru V5. Those are special presentation pieces.

Thanks. It is not a presentation piece by ANY stretch. Just a "been there, done that" representative piece. Just as the Inland I have is not an exact copy of what my dad carried (he had a transitional model with adjustable rear sight and no bayonet lug, and mine is a post-war mixmaster), this is representative of the pistol he carried 24/7 on Iwo Jima.

I went by the gunshop today to visit my Victory model. Re-installed the lanyard ring, and took off the non-serial numbered oversized replacement grips, and replaced them with a nice used set that matched almost perfectly for both size and wear. While I was at it, I checked the cylinder gap. It came in at .020", with very little fore and aft movement. I have read that .010 is optimum cylinder on civilian Model 10s, but wonder what the specs were for military Victory models. I would think they would not be that tight on a combat weapon.

That fine updates obligates you to provide an updated image , please.

Unfortunately, because of California's draconian laws, I can only buy one pistol every 30 days. I picked up my 9mm Shield on 1-13, so I can't pick up this (or my Uberti 1860 Henry rifle) until 2-13....

I also just scored 13 assorted boxes of standard velocity, vintage .38 Special ammo for $100. four of the boxes are wadcutter, and the rest are lead in assorted varieties. That gives me plenty of plinking ammo. I shoot it hold paper on the side of cylinder gap (about 10 inches away) and see if it shaves. Worst case, I'll pick up a Victory cylinder and install it, if need be.

Well, My baby came to her new home. Vintage Western .38 Special 158 grain Lubaloy rounds in a reproduction shoulder holster from World War Supply.



Hopefully I'll get a chance to pop a few rounds in the woods tomorrow. I have about 1,000 rounds of .38 Special, about 700 rounds of it is vintage standard velocity 158s and 148 wadcutter. Another couple hundred is current production wadcutter and semi-wadcutter.

First impressions:

First I cleaned it up and scrubbed the bore and chambers of the cylinder. The bore is shiny, crisp and has sharp rifling. Fortunately what I thought might be "frost" was just a really dirty bore.

Second, timing and lock up (using the S&W used revolver diagnostic guide PDF) is perfect and centered on the bore. Free play fore and aft on the cylinder is negligible. No contact with the recoil shield, with case bases while rotating.

Third, double action is VERY smooth, just as you would expect from a vintage S&W revolver.

Fourth, single action is AWESOME at about 2.5 pounds, crisp, with no creep. This should shoot very well.

Fifth, while the cylinder gap is .020", I suspect that it will shoot fine. I doubt if wartime production revolvers would adhere to a .006" to .010" cylinder gap, especially for a combat arm, expected to possibly subjected to terrible conditions.

Sixth, The used grips I put on fit much better than the NOS replacement (non-serial numbered) grips that were on it. They were in much nicer condition than the revolver. The wear on the used (serial numbered) grips I put on was a good match.

Anyone know what the wartime cylinder gaps specs were? I have had several British Webley and Enfield martial revolvers, and they had a much wider gap than civilian revolvers I have had.

Took it today and fired about 100 rounds. I had a ball. There was a bit more side blast from the .020" cylinder gap, but the shooters on either side didn't seem to notice, so it could not have been too bad.

The Victory has a smooth and quick double action, even though the pull seemed about right. Very east to be "surprised" by the break.

Single action was a joy, with the trigger probably being close to two pounds. Here's 6 shots, off hand, single action from 10 yards. 1.5" x 2". I am a lousy bullseye shooter, and this thing made me look good.

Here's the Navy ammo pouch for the Victory. I've had this a few years and didn't realize they were that valuable. I have regular military hardball 38s in it, but probably should have loaded it with tracers. It seems awfully complex for something that just had to carry 6 rounds.

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Very cool. Thanks. I'll have to keep my eyes open for one. My dad's web belt had two first aid pouches. I'm guessing one was for revolver rounds.

August 1942

For those in the know: Apex is advertising this as a Victory Model .38 Special cylinder. The do NOT cross list it in their Model 10 parts. I know there is a difference between Model 10 and Victory model cylinder notches, but I can't tell the difference. Is this a Victory model cylinder? If it is, I thought of picking it up to try to decrease cylinder gap and return a Victory cylinder to it. Thanks in advance.

https://www.apexgunparts.com/sw/s-w-...8-special.html

Assessment: I've had the Victory long enough to have had an opportunity to shoot it several times, clean it thoroughly, and do an detailed inspection.
-The condition is well worn, with lots of patina, but no real pitting.

-The bore is bright and shiny, though on close inspection it has a faint ring about 1.5" from the muzzle. There is no visible bulge on the exterior, even under oblique lighting. Based on my 10 yard target, this has no effect on accuracy.

-The cylinder is replaced, and has .020" gap. While it is double the civilian Model 10 gap, it also does not affect accuracy. There is no lead shaving and the timing is dead on. fore and after cylinder shake is nil.

-It was missing the lanyard ring, and had NOS GI replacement grips (un-serial numbered) that were oversized. I had a used set of serial numbered grips that had wear equal to the weapon, that were a good fit. I also had a Victory Model lanyard ring I put on.

I paid $300 "Buy it Now". Was it worth it? I think it was, at least to me. It is a shooter, and a representative model of the Victory Model my dad carried on Iwo Jima in 1945. It goes well with my Inland M1 Carbine and all of his WW2 stuff.

If you paid $300, then that's what it's worth.

Thanks for taking on your journey, I know I have enjoyed it thus far.

terry

You got a great deal. Nice shooting.

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Mike
S&WCA #3065