Chief Special Target Research & Survivors List Redux

mejetski2000 · #**101** 09-08-2021, 08:55 PM

Hi Folks just bought a "possible" with no box, papers or original grips. Action is great as is bore/cylinder condition, carried with usual light wear.
Ser #AIV0210. How can I tell if it's legit ? Serrated front sight, combat trigger and hammer, no sight insert. Bought as a shooter and because first one I've ever seen.

Thanks !

Pete

two-bit cowboy · #**102** 09-08-2021, 10:54 PM

Howdy Pete,

Sounds like a legit 1 of 660 for Ashland Shooters Supply, Ashland, Ohio, in 1985. I have a few with the AIV serial prefix in my database. The most common prefix is ALU.

That front sight should be the tall, shark fin style, and it should have the dark (black) adjustable rear sight.

mejetski2000 · #**103** 09-09-2021, 05:22 PM

Looks good Bob, thanks for the confirmation !

flcandelario · #**104** 02-26-2023, 01:10 PM

Hi all,
I have owned a .38 cal Model 50 Chief's Special Target, which I originally thought was a Model 36, for over 45 years. I carried this gun while on the job as a Special Agent in the FBI, until I purchased a Model 60 around 1979. The gun then went to my late father, but I have it back again. I don't have the original grips, but I've included photos of the grips I do have, with the Bureau seal, which I personally placed on the grips. If my memory serves me correct, either my dad or me may have purchased this weapon from another Special Agent in the San Juan Office where I was stationed at the time. I'll include photos. The serial number is 55104 and I have been told by Wiregrassguy that it is among the first 100 manufactured in 1955. Can we include this in some database. I understand jcelect started a database of surviving CSTs. THanks, Fernando

BC38 · #**105** 02-26-2023, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flcandelario

Hi all,
I have owned a .38 cal Model 50 Chief's Special Target, which I originally thought was a Model 36, for over 45 years. I carried this gun while on the job as a Special Agent in the FBI, until I purchased a Model 60 around 1979. The gun then went to my late father, but I have it back again. I don't have the original grips, but I've included photos of the grips I do have, with the Bureau seal, which I personally placed on the grips. If my memory serves me correct, either my dad or me may have purchased this weapon from another Special Agent in the San Juan Office where I was stationed at the time. I'll include photos. The serial number is 55104 and I have been told by Wiregrassguy that it is among the first 100 manufactured in 1955. Can we include this in some database. I understand jcelect started a database of surviving CSTs. THanks, Fernando

And nickle plated no less! VERY nice!
Any recollection of where you go the grips? The blind escutcheon and shape makes me think of Hurst or Farrant.

flcandelario · #**106** 02-26-2023, 05:43 PM

I have no recollection of where or how I got those grips. Sorry

BC38 · #**107** 02-26-2023, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flcandelario

I have no recollection of where or how I got those grips. Sorry

No problem, those kinds of details get lost over time. It was mainly a curiosity-type question. Along those same curiosity-based lines, what FBI office were you stationed at when you bought these grips? Was it possibly somewhere in California?
Just wondering, but does anyone else see these grips the same way I do?
If they are Hurst or Farrant they are probably worth more than the original diamond magna grips.

Any chance you would be willing to take and post a few more close-up hi-resolution photos? Good pics of the bottom of both sides of the grip frame and of the rear face of the cylinder would help with identifying this one as being nickle plated from the factory.
A factory nickle plated specimen would most likely have a capital "N" stamped on the rear face of the cylinder between two chambers, and would also have the same capital "N" stamped on the bottom of the grip frame. Another telltale of a factory nickle-plated cylinder would be having a blued extractor star.
So those 3 photos would go a long ways towards establishing that this is a factory-nickle plated specimen - which would make it even more special.
Sorry but the photos you previously posted of the grip frame with the grips off weren't high-resolution enough for my old eyes to positively identify the telltale "N" stamping that is proof-positive of a factory nickle finish.

H Richard · #**108** 02-27-2023, 09:33 AM

This one came to me a few years ago, and was marked 36-1, S/N 16J187 Shipped Oct 71. Unfortunately as lettered by Roy, it shipped as plain sights not target. The work is so well done, I thought perhaps it had bine back to the factory for the install. I no longer have this one, but it was real nice.

two-bit cowboy · #**109** 02-27-2023, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flcandelario

Hi all,
I have owned a .38 cal Model 50 Chief's Special Target, which I originally thought was a Model 36, for over 45 years.

The serial number is 55104 and I have been told by Wiregrassguy that it is among the first 100 manufactured in 1955.

Howdy Fernando and welcome aboard from ol' Wyo.

You have a Chiefs Special Target.

It's neither a Model 36 nor a Model 50.

I agree with Guy, and it likely shipped in 1955, too.

The first known Chiefs Special with a model number (MOD-36) shipped in September 1958. S&W Historian Dr Roy Jinks said S&W established the Model 50 in 1962.

It appears to have been refinished, but not at the factory. Do you know anything about that?

I'm sure jcelect will be along soon.

raljr1 · #**110** 02-27-2023, 10:01 AM

What would a Model 60-1 target be worth today? I passed on one a couple years ago, Shame, shame. Interested in searching to day but need price guidance.

thanks

flcandelario · #**111** 02-27-2023, 10:09 AM

Hi guys,
Here are more photos. I couldn't find an "N" anywhere, so it appears to be after market plating, also the ejector star does not appear to be plated. I know it was plated when we acquired it, but I don't remember what grips it had back then. It may have come with those grips and I added the Bureau seal. Also, two-bit cowboy indicated it's neither a 36 or a 50, so what is it? Check out the additional photos.

jcelect · #**112** 02-27-2023, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H Richard

This one came to me a few years ago, and was marked 36-1, S/N 16J187 Shipped Oct 71. Unfortunately as lettered by Roy, it shipped as plain sights not target. The work is so well done, I thought perhaps it had bine back to the factory for the install. I no longer have this one, but it was real nice.

Thank you for the information. My very first CST was a fake, which I still have and lettered. Yours is better than mine, as it has a standard front sight. I was so naive back then I thought I had something special! I figure it was part of the cost of my education!
jcelect

jcelect · #**113** 02-27-2023, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flcandelario

Hi guys,
Here are more photos. I couldn't find an "N" anywhere, so it appears to be after market plating, also the ejector star does not appear to be plated. I know it was plated when we acquired it, but I don't remember what grips it had back then. It may have come with those grips and I added the Bureau seal. Also, two-bit cowboy indicated it's neither a 36 or a 50, so what is it? Check out the additional photos.

Thank you for the new pics! From outward appearance your gun appears to be a factory NI gun. A letter will tell the tale! Your model would be referred to as a "pre model 36" as it was probably shipped in early 1955. Model number stamping did not start until 1957. The model 50 designation was assigned in 1962 but none were built until 1973. Before 1973 the guns were pre mod 36 or model stamped 36. In 1975 they produced 213 mod 36-1s This is a 3" heavy barrel, SB gun.
jcelect

Wiregrassguy · #**114** 02-27-2023, 11:22 AM

Bob and Joe, my impression of Fernando's Chiefs Special Target was it was refinished outside the factory. It has no 'N' stamps anywhere and the rear sight leaf is plated. I felt the latter was a big tell but I couldn't find any pictures of a real nickel CST to compare it to. Nevertheless, it is a rare bird and also an heirloom.

flcandelario · #**115** 02-27-2023, 11:26 AM

Hi Jcelect,
Thanks for your input and clarification. So my revolver is a pre model 36 and could be factory NI. When you say a letter will tell the tale, are you referring to the letter "N", which I could not find, or to a letter from Smith & Wesson? Also, you referred to the blue steel 3" gun, but that is not mine, mine is the nickel plated one. I don't know how the 3" one got in the mix here. It looks like the 3" bull barrel model 10-6 I was issued in 1978, when I went through the FBI Academy. Back then it was a new issue for the FBI. Thanks for your service!

Retired W4 · #**116** 02-27-2023, 01:33 PM

ALU4192, original box and stocks, 2" RB. Letter says shipped Sept. 20, 1985 to Ashland Shooters Supply, Inc.

BC38 · #**117** 02-27-2023, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flcandelario

Hi guys,
Here are more photos. I couldn't find an "N" anywhere, so it appears to be after market plating, also the ejector star does not appear to be plated. I know it was plated when we acquired it, but I don't remember what grips it had back then. It may have come with those grips and I added the Bureau seal. Also, two-bit cowboy indicated it's neither a 36 or a 50, so what is it? Check out the additional photos.

If the plating was done outside the factory they did an excellent job. All too often the trigger, hammer, and ejector star get plated, which is a dead giveaway since the factory never plated those parts. They were always blued.
Some people might call yours a "pre" model 50 since that is the model number that would be assigned to this configuration once the factory started assigning model numbers.
I believe that at the time they were just called a Chief Special Target model.

BC38 · #**118** 02-27-2023, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H Richard

This one came to me a few years ago, and was marked 36-1, S/N 16J187 Shipped Oct 71. Unfortunately as lettered by Roy, it shipped as plain sights not target. The work is so well done, I thought perhaps it had bine back to the factory for the install. I no longer have this one, but it was real nice.

Fake or not, I'd LOVE to have that one! Looks like an 80% scale M15 - a Mini-15! How COOL is that?!?

two-bit cowboy · #**119** 02-27-2023, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiregrassguy

Bob and Joe, my impression of Fernando's Chiefs Special Target was it was refinished outside the factory. It has no 'N' stamps anywhere....

I have yet to see a 1950s factory nickel Chiefs Special without the "N" stamped at least on the left side of the lower grip frame. Most also have the "N" stamp on the bottom of the barrel and the back of the cylinder beneath the extractor star.

Fernando,

Yours is early enough that it should still have the serial number stamped on the bottom of the barrel. Is it there?

two-bit cowboy · #**120** 02-27-2023, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raljr1

What would a Model 60-1 target be worth today? I passed on one a couple years ago, Shame, shame. Interested in searching to day but need price guidance.

thanks

Robert -- The most recent "sale" I've documented on auction went for $1,005 in January. The range I've noted in the last six months has been $900 to $1,136.

two-bit cowboy · #**121** 02-27-2023, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flcandelario

I don't know how the 3" one got in the mix here.

The thread concerns all Chiefs Special Target models.

jcelect · #**122** 02-27-2023, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiregrassguy

Bob and Joe, my impression of Fernando's Chiefs Special Target was it was refinished outside the factory. It has no 'N' stamps anywhere and the rear sight leaf is plated. I felt the latter was a big tell but I couldn't find any pictures of a real nickel CST to compare it to. Nevertheless, it is a rare bird and also an heirloom.

I missed that Guy, thanks! I'm not partial to nickel guns so I have none in my collection of J frames. There were very few Ni CSTs and of those I have never seen a pic of one.
jcelect

BC38 · #**123** 02-27-2023, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flcandelario

Hi all,
I have owned a .38 cal Model 50 Chief's Special Target, which I originally thought was a Model 36, for over 45 years. I carried this gun while on the job as a Special Agent in the FBI, until I purchased a Model 60 around 1979. The gun then went to my late father, but I have it back again. I don't have the original grips, but I've included photos of the grips I do have, with the Bureau seal, which I personally placed on the grips. If my memory serves me correct, either my dad or me may have purchased this weapon from another Special Agent in the San Juan Office where I was stationed at the time. I'll include photos. The serial number is 55104 and I have been told by Wiregrassguy that it is among the first 100 manufactured in 1955. Can we include this in some database. I understand jcelect started a database of surviving CSTs. THanks, Fernando

FWIW, if that one were part of my collection, I'd roll the dice and spend the $100 to have it lettered.
Who knows what Mr. Jinks might have to say about it? It could be a total bust, or it could be a major BONUS. Worst case, you'll have an official S&W Historian letter for it.
Seems to me like it would be worth the gamble. I mean, what is $100 really worth these days?
Just one person's opinion, and as always, YMMV.

merl67 · #**124** 02-28-2023, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flcandelario

Hi all,
I have owned a .38 cal Model 50 Chief's Special Target, which I originally thought was a Model 36, for over 45 years. I carried this gun while on the job as a Special Agent in the FBI, until I purchased a Model 60 around 1979. The gun then went to my late father, but I have it back again. I don't have the original grips, but I've included photos of the grips I do have, with the Bureau seal, which I personally placed on the grips. If my memory serves me correct, either my dad or me may have purchased this weapon from another Special Agent in the San Juan Office where I was stationed at the time. I'll include photos. The serial number is 55104 and I have been told by Wiregrassguy that it is among the first 100 manufactured in 1955. Can we include this in some database. I understand jcelect started a database of surviving CSTs. THanks, Fernando

WOW I have sn 55102 blued finish...