Anyone know the sequence of events involved in "decommissioning" a BSR after WW2? I have a preVIctory #892891 which has Birmingham proofs dated 1959 and am wondering about its possible whereabouts from 1945 to 1959. This particular specimen is in excellent condition which seems to limit its combat usage so am wondering if it was in storage, home front use or? Any info would be of interest. thanks, Ron

I don't know either, althought I too would like to know more.

I have a late-shipped (Aug. 1944) Victory BSR, also in very good condition and all-original with Birmingham proofs. The year is a bit tricky; the Viewer's Mark clearly has the letter I for the year code, but according to Pate's chart the I was not used and it went from H for 1957 to J for 1958.

The gun came with a perfectly fitting leather holster that was not recognizable as war or post-war British army kit, but neither likely civilian. So it may hold the key to what the gun did post-war.

That's as far as I've gotten .

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Absalom, Love that holster! That "I" date is a real puzzler Maybe some of our Forum contributors will be able to help us. Thanks for your input. Ron

I cannot think of any way that anyone today could know exactly what happened to all of the British revolvers after the war without access to British military records.. The British probably had far more handguns than needed at the war's end, and as would be the usual procedure for any large army, un-needed small arms would be placed into storage until such time they are needed, or else declared surplus, then sold or scrapped.

I'm wondering if the many FTR BSR's dated in the early to mid 1950's might hold some clue to the Brits desire to do something with the multitude of BSR's leftover after the war, Were these FTR's being reconditioned for possible use or merely for disposal? Doesn't seem likely that they would go to the time and expense to recondition them simply for disposal. I guess that I am just rambling in hopes that something may start to make some sense. Forgive an old man for merely musing...... Ron

I think all of the FTR-marked guns I've seen are Australian. Did any of the other commonwealth countries stamp guns as FTR? No idea if the English did much (or any) wholesale reconditioning after WWII.

Do we know when the British began releasing their BSR's for commercial proofing and sale? I have two Canadian marked preVictories which show pre1955 proofs (Rules of 1925) so these may be some of the earliest proofed for commercial release. This is a very interesting, but very complex issue apparently. An old man continues to muse......Ron

While I've seen some references to FTR's in "other countries", I have never come across one done in Britain. The only other FTR I have seen identified by marking as such on the gun in a few instances are the ones done at Ishapore arsenal in India in the 1960s; the one I've personally inspected was done in 1968. That one, and the others I've seen in photos, were in extremely ****** shape, not just from neglect, but very badly executed refinish.

Someone may know the answer, but not I. My understanding is that large scale commercial sales in the USA of the surplus .38/200s started sometime in the later 1950s and continued until GCA-68 halted mail order sales. However there were some sales of the surplus Australian .38/200s into the 1990s.

I wonder why the Aussies were so prolific in their FTR of BSR's in the 1950's? Hadn't their military gone to a semiautomatic pistol by that time? Were the FTR BSR's merely intended as standby weapons? The musing continues.....Ron

When I was an international police officer in Kosovo, 2002-2004, I spoke with several Fiji Island police officers. They were still carrying 5" BSRs in .38 S&W.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

That's on my list to look into .

The Lithgow Small Arms Factory, where the FTR's happened, has a museum attached to it, and they do have records and give access to researchers. The focus seems to be on guns they actually produced, like their version of the Lee-Enfield, but I've been thinking of trying to contact them.

Sources agree that the VEGA imports, which seem to make up the bulk of Australian BSR's, occurred in the late 1980s. Since it makes no business sense for the guns to sit around in some civilian dealer's warehouse abroad for decades, they probably were surplussed out not long before that and kept in military storage until then for whatever purpose.

You didn't by any chance check the markings?

As I just ascertained, Fiji didn't gain independence from Britain until 1970. No idea whether any Fijians fought in WW II, but the motherland likely supplied colonial police and local military post-war.

This was just before I joined the Forum, but I do remember seeing the "V" prefix to the serial numbers.

I also spoke with a Greek Army officer while over there and he was carrying a WW I vintage 1911.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

It would be interesting to study what happened to all those BSRs after the conclusion of WWII through the 1980s.

Charles Clawson wrote that "it has been reported that the letter I was not used because of the similarity to the letter J, but it is this writer's observation that I was used instead of J".

This makes sense to me since an I stamp would be easier to make than a J one.

Peter

As a matter of interest (and coincidence) I have an Austrian Police marked BSR which was sold Feb.1,1957 by the Golden State Arms Corp. to a buyer in Cleveland Ohio. Sale price was $24.95 Gun has no British proofs and is a standard "United States Property" marked BSR in nice original untouched condition. Unfortunately, I had to pay much more than the above sale price. Such is inflation! Ha Ha Ron

Remember that until the mid 1950s, about the only gun-related magazine out there was the American Rifleman, and it wasn't sold on news stands to the general public, just distributed to NRA members. The first publication of GUNS in, I think, 1955 marked the beginning of the modern general circulation gun magazines - including lots of advertising for the sale of milsurp weapons by mail order. I'm pretty sure that the earlier issues of GUNS from the late 1950s carried milsurp gun ads including BSRs, and I think they were also published in the American Rifleman. There is a website with all of the old GUNS magazine issues accessible in PDF, so maybe someone could look up to see when the first BSRs showed up for sale.
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Here's the site: GUNS Magazine Classic EditionsGuns Magazine.com | Guns Magazine.com

There are definitely BSRs in ads in the Feb 56 issue (the only one I pulled up), advertised as S&W M&P military revolvers in .38 S&W with 5" barrels. Apparently they were not modified from the original military configuration. $27.95 and $29.95 in two ads. A gold mine for researchers in the marketing of MILSURP guns. BTW, I have the hard copy of GUNS #1, 1955. No advertising in that issue.

how do you print screen

I bid on this one this week on GunsAmerica. It is relisted now. It is a .38 S&W and carries the F.R./R.F.I 1967. Supposedly reworked in India. S/N is 995141

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Mike
S&WCA #3065

I'm pretty sure that checks out. To quote from Wiki:

"Military rifles manufactured at Ishapore 1949 and pre-1949 are stamped "GRI" on the buttsocket, referring to George Rex, Imperator (i.e. King George VI, last Emperor of India), whilst military rifles manufactured 1949 and post-1948 are stamped "RFI", which stands for Rifle Factory, Ishapore."

It stands to reason the same acronym was used on other weapons there. I could tell you for sure if I had kept a picture of the Ishapore FTR'd BSR I got to look at or had a less fuzzy memory.

The gun looks in exceptionally good shape compared to the Ishapore re-treads I've seen. Especially in conjunction with the non-original S&W stocks, which I doubt very much were replaced in India, plus the bluing of hammer and trigger, usually not part of an FTR, I wonder whether someone re-refinished this gun after it arrived back in the US.

Here is a close up of the barrel. It has some challenges.

how to take screenshots

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Mike
S&WCA #3065

Besides the Ishapore guns the Royal Ordnance Factory at Fazakerley, near Liverpool, England, conducted major Factory Thorough Repair programs from 1948 through 1954 on the Lee Enfield No.4 .303 rifles of all Marks. ROF Fazakerley had manufactured huge numbers of these rifles in WW2. Enfield rifle collectors see lots of FTR marked rifles.

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215