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02-12-2017, 06:07 PM
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Triple Lock converted to Target .45 Colt - UPDATED LETTER!
I’ve been waiting for the right Triple Lock to come along for a few years without much luck. My primary interest is .45 Caliber N-frames and the pre-war variations outside of the Model 1917 and .455’s are seldomly seen. So if I were to ever have a Triple Lock, I figured it would be a Canadian issued .455 converted to .45 Colt with a shaved cylinder, and all of those proof marks.
Along comes this refinished Triple Lock with all sorts of abnormalities and the grip frame is full of factory stampings. When I pieced everything together, the picture became clear. My letter request went out Saturday, so stop reading here or continue reading if you want my guess as to what was done and when.
So I have a nicely refinished Nickel Triple Lock that appears to have been factory converted into a Target model and .45 Colt. Since I will likely never see nor afford an original .45 Colt Triple Lock, this was a must buy for me. The target conversion is icing on the cake. I think of it as a Pre-1950 Target somebody created using a Triple Lock.
This revovler was marked with three date stamps: “1.47”, “3.47”, and “12 74”. I believe that this revolver was returned to the factory in January 1947 for a caliber conversion to .45 Colt. They replaced the barrel and cylinder both having the serial number and star placed on them. The ejector does not have a serial number behind it (underside) as an original would have had. There is also a “.45” stamp on the upper right corner (aft) of the left grip frame side. This is the only example I can recall where I’ve seen a caliber stamp on a frame. At some point S&W used a numerical code for caliber designation like a “5” or “7” in the 1950s.
I believe the revolver was returned to the owner/shooter who found that the fixed sights did not function well with a .45. So it was returned in March 1947 for the “newer”, larger postwar target sights. I believe this is when the “star” was placed on the grip butt. The rear sight is not serial numbered. All of the conversions I have ever seen of early .45’s have tall front sight blades whether custom or factory work. The sight conversion appears identical to “Linde’s” 1917 conversion in this thread.
Model 1917 Target in .45 Colt
Lastly, regarding the finish and re-nickel it appears this was done in 1974. Due to the absence of any “N” nor “B” on the grip frame or anywhere else I believe the gun was originally a Nickel gun. The refinish is still in high condition thankfully. Either in ’47 or ’74 the four-line address was applied to the frame and given how crisp it is, I’m thinking it was in ’74. I know Mr. Jinks brought an end to this at somepoint. The stocks are not serial numbered and may have been added in 1947 as new old stock replacements. I know this is a lot of maybes… but that’s how I’m assessing all of this. The letter will hopefully shed some light on this one. Finally…photos. I want to thank the Jim's (Hondo44 and bmg_60) for their assistance.
Last edited by Hoosier45; 02-24-2017 at 04:28 PM.
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22hipower, 410bore, bigolddave, bill skebeck, bmg60, Breakaway500, bruce5781, CptCurl, CScott, D1911, DCWilson, ddixie884, DGT, Doug M., Doug627, Fish827, gdogs, Göring's S&W, H Richard, j38, Jebus35745, jmace57, JohnRippert, JSR III, ki5mc, Kinman, Lee's Landing Billy, moosedog, mrcvs, Muley Gil, Ngtdog, olskool, ParadiseRoad, Peak53, quinn, raljr1, red9, RKmesa, S&WIowegan, S42N8, SD95B, Shark Bait, Speedo2, steelslaver, stu1ritter, tshyde, Wiregrassguy, wogentry |
02-12-2017, 06:27 PM
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That's a handsome revolver I would be proud to own.
Why is it you think the barrel has been replaced? Could it not have been a .455 barrel?
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02-12-2017, 06:32 PM
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Lawdy, lawdy, that is purty.. An interesting theory on it's history. Gives us neophytes a picture of how things use to be.
Pictures are stunning..
Thanks for sharing.
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02-12-2017, 06:39 PM
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That is the nicest refinished gun that I've ever seen.
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02-12-2017, 08:04 PM
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Well, whatever it may have been and however it got to what it is today, it's drop-dead gorgeous!!
Ralph Tremaine
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02-12-2017, 08:18 PM
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Breathtaking. Thank you for sharing.
Regards,
Bruce
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Regards,
Bruce
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02-12-2017, 11:02 PM
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Thank you all for the complements, I'm very pleased!
CptCurl: I think the barrel has been replaced because the serial number location in the ejector housing is not likely period correct and has a star stamped in it. From what I've been told, the factory would replace parts instead of convert. I'll wait to hear from the letter if it was a .44 or .455 originally.
The nickel refinish in the 70's may have been the trendy thing to do. It seems that I've come across quite a few refinish nickel jobs dating to that period. This one actually came with two sets of stocks... the other a nice set of pearl magnas from AJE "made in Philippines" that might date to the mid 70's as well. Somebody wanted a BBQ Rig or a large pimp gun haha.
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02-12-2017, 11:27 PM
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I see it was stamped with the four-line address, probably during the 1974 return. I'd venture that was when it was refinished.
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02-13-2017, 12:52 AM
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The serial # I can read in the barrel, 5718 eliminates it from being a 455 TL.
There were 3 versions of 455 TLs produced, and all three had some TLs:
44 HE 1st Model factory converted to 455 - all #s are known and do not include your #.
455 HE 1st Model - TLs, the s/n range is 1 to 5461.
455 HE 1st Model TLs produced at the end of the 455 HE 2nd Model production, but all of the known #s of those are 5 digits.
So I have to conclude yours was produced as a 44 Spl., with a very slight possibility it was one of the extremely rare calibers such as 38-40, 44-40, or even 44 Russian!
The letter will be most interesting.
The post war sights would not be numbered because they weren't flush fit and polished to the top strap like the pre war rear sight necessitated.
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Last edited by Hondo44; 04-20-2017 at 01:44 PM.
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02-15-2017, 07:09 PM
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Outstanding! Thanx for sharing. I will hold my breath for the letter.
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02-15-2017, 07:17 PM
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"... so stop reading here..."
I'll bet a dollar to a donut NOBODY quit reading!!!
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02-15-2017, 07:54 PM
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Really handsome old revolver. Be interested to see what your letter says. Congratulations on that one.
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02-15-2017, 07:59 PM
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now for the user, how dose it shoot???
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02-24-2017, 04:22 PM
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Just got this in the mail today and I'm quite pleased. I find it interesting the letter does not state specifically what the caliber was when it shipped... Only that it was for a single unit and no information was available on shipment. It appears to have been a nice Christmas surprise for a lucky individual in 1912.
Factory Letter:
"We have researched your Smith & Wesson .44Hand Ejector First Model (Triple-Lock) ,
caliber .45 Colt. The company records indicate that your handgun, with serial number 5718 was
shipped from our factory on December 12, 1912 and delivered to Cowdrey Co., New York City,
NY. The records indicate that this revolver was shipped with a 6.5 inch barrel, nickel finish, and
checkered walnut gold medallion grips. This order was for a single unit, but no information was
available on the shipment. The handgun has been modified several time in its life span, but the
last nickel refinish was completed in December 1974. Once the historical foundation has
completed digitizing the early records it may be possible to obtain more information on the
various reworks."
Triple Lock 45 - 1912.pdf
Last edited by Hoosier45; 02-24-2017 at 04:28 PM.
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02-24-2017, 04:38 PM
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CONGRATULATIONS!
The Model name as stated in the letter is: ".44 Hand Ejector First Model (Triple-Lock)", and states; "caliber .45 Colt". That means it was chambered for the 45 Colt when it left the factory!
It's a rare original nickel 45 Colt.
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02-24-2017, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondo44
CONGRATULATIONS!
The Model name as stated in the letter is: ".44 Hand Ejector First Model (Triple-Lock)", and states; "caliber .45 Colt". That means it was chambered for the 45 Colt when it left the factory!
It's a rare original nickel 45 Colt.
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Hondo44,
Wait seriously, let me pinch myself first... I figured they typed the letter that way because of its current configuration, simply stating the model as a .44 Hand Ejector First Model, now in .45 Colt. I would have thought they would have stated lower down that it shipped as a ".45 Colt", 6.5" barrel, nickel etc...
Can somebody call Roy or Don for me or send me their phone number?
Holy Cow
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02-24-2017, 04:52 PM
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Call Smith & Wesson @ 800-331-0852 and choose option 7 on the menu when the 'machine' picks up. The Historian, Roy Jinks, will come on the line if he's not out of town.
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02-24-2017, 06:47 PM
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I'll take Roy's opinion:
"There is no positive proof it was a special order by an export company that did purchase some of this guns as specials in .45 Colt. My guess was it was possibly correct, but there is no cut and dry proof. That is the problem with the old records. sometime you have to guess. Roy"
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02-25-2017, 09:51 AM
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That is truly a work of art. This is the part of gun collecting that the anti's will NEVER understand. We are not all killers and thieves and can look at that piece of hardware and just be in awe of it's craftsmanship and beauty.
Two things amaze me. One that the refinish done over 40 years ago still looks like it is brand new.
Secondly, that the factory was able to remove the MADE IN USA stamping and replace it with the newer 4 line without distorting the shape of the frame. I would think that a fair amount of metal would need to be removed to make that imprint disappear and yet there does not seem to be any appreciable difference in the thickness there as opposed to the rear of the frame near the side plate. Talk about talent.
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02-25-2017, 10:11 AM
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Every superlative I can come up with applies.
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02-25-2017, 01:27 PM
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O.K....when S&W built a Triple Lock in .45 Colt, did they stamp
that caliber on the barrel, or did they stamp the .44 caliber
marking on the barrel and ship it out? It seems that if it was
a special order item, only S&W and the purchaser would know
what the caliber was??
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02-25-2017, 03:09 PM
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I can see it now. An order comes in for a 45 colt triple lock. The order office calls up the guys who do the special orders and tells them what they need made up. Guy goes and gathers up the pieces he needs and goes to work. Gun gets made and shipped. At that point in time getting the paper work completely sorted out and corrected is probably a low priority.
Who knows. Although at one point in my career at a supervisors meeting I was congratulated on my crew's production. Then, I was told that my paper work was behind and kind of difficult to deciper. I made the remark "What do you want, a bunch of paper work or a bunch of completed piping systems?" I thought I knew the answer. Ha ha, nope. They wanted the paper. Worked out. got an extra hour of OT a day and somebody to straighten it out for me. Became my usual method. Mess up the paper work all the time and they would always give me somebody to fix it. LOL.
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02-25-2017, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelslaver
I can see it now. An order comes in for a 45 colt triple lock. The order office calls up the guys who do the special orders and tells them what they need made up. Guy goes and gathers up the pieces he needs and goes to work. Gun gets made and shipped. At that point in time getting the paper work completely sorted out and corrected is probably a low priority.
Who knows. Although at one point in my career at a supervisors meeting I was congratulated on my crew's production. Then, I was told that my paper work was behind and kind of difficult to deciper. I made the remark "What do you want, a bunch of paper work or a bunch of completed piping systems?" I thought I knew the answer. Ha ha, nope. They wanted the paper. Worked out. got an extra hour of OT a day and somebody to straighten it out for me. Became my usual method. Mess up the paper work all the time and they would always give me somebody to fix it. LOL.
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If it's not written down, it didn't happen. At least that's what they always told me at work. I guess a lot of what I did never happened!
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02-25-2017, 03:28 PM
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Wow,a 12-12-12 ship date that only happens once every 100 years
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02-25-2017, 04:18 PM
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Just plain beautiful...well done sir.
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02-25-2017, 05:09 PM
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Hi
James a triple lock that early was not marked with the US mark,
also the caliber marking on these early guns were not marked on special orders.
Jim Fisher
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02-25-2017, 05:10 PM
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Very neat old revolver, would be fun to pull that out at a bullseye match. I hope you shoot it and let us know how it does.
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02-25-2017, 05:37 PM
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Let's not forget this triple lock does have the special caliber stamp on the grip frame, .45:
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02-27-2017, 03:14 PM
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Thanks everyone for the comments and congrats. I think we all agree that anything is possible with regards to collecting S&W's and other vintage firearms. This revolver was essentially my grail gun as a collector of .45 Smith & Wessons, and I thought it might take a few more decades to find one. From some quick research the Cowdrey Co, of New York, New York (17 Battery Place) was an exporter of Firearms, Cartridges, and Lubricating oils. I found another auction listing for a 6.5", Nickel, .44 Triple Lock that shipped to them in 1915. Other than that, there's not a lot of info I've found. I enjoy reading the letter and trying to envision what it was like at that time...New York City on 12-12-12, Christmas time, etc!
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