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Old 02-16-2017, 09:44 AM
BigBoy99 BigBoy99 is offline
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Default Unusual S&W Model 1905 4th Change

This is a S&W Model 1905 4th Change in .38 Special Caliber with Serial No. 665408. The barrel is 6" and is a 5-screw model. The butt, cylinder and bottom of the barrel all have the same number 665408. From the serial number, this revolver was made in the 1937-1938 time-frame. The frame under the crane is marked 5287. This is an unusual revolver because the rear grip strap has been cut to attach a shoulder stock. None of the conventional: Browning/Inglis holster stock, Luger stock or C96 Mauser Military fit the slot. The importer markings are: "IA CO SAC CA". This company imported firearms from China so I strongly suspect that it came from there but there are no markings on it other than the standard commercial S&W markings. As with all guns which came from China, it has been refinished even though it has seen rough use from all of the pitting on the grip area of the frame. Has anyone seen a shoulder stock for the revolver? Any help with this puzzlement would be appreciated.
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Old 02-16-2017, 09:47 AM
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Old 02-16-2017, 09:50 AM
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Old 02-16-2017, 11:13 AM
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Now THAT'S a new one for me. Very interesting find.
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Old 02-16-2017, 11:44 AM
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Fascinating.

The IA CO SAC CA stamp was used by Pacific International/ARMEX/Inter-American Import Co (the company changed names a few times), and has been observed on other Victory models as well as M1 carbines and other surplus arms.

They did also import Norinco AK's, but I would not necessarily draw any Chinese connection to this interesting modification.
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Old 02-16-2017, 01:02 PM
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Old 02-16-2017, 01:25 PM
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it has been refinished
It is also wearing early postwar stocks. I wonder what serial number is stamped on the inside of the right panel.
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Old 02-16-2017, 02:03 PM
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It is also wearing early postwar stocks. I wonder what serial number is stamped on the inside of the right panel.
The number on the inside of the right grip is 178787. The number is stamped in two line with 178 above 787.
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Old 02-16-2017, 02:27 PM
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I list several M&Ps with very nearby serial numbers as shipping in 1937, therefore it was made no later than that, and possibly even a year or so earlier. The SN inside the grip is originally from a C-series M&P which likely shipped sometime in 1952. No telling how that pair found its way to your M&P. I have never seen any M&P that has been modified for buttstock attachment. If it's worth $75 to you to satisfy your curiosity, a factory letter will provide further information regarding its shipping date and to where first shipped. And that might (or more likely might not) help.

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Old 02-17-2017, 07:45 AM
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I my 50+ years of "Accumulating" firearms and accessories, I recall seeing pictures of a S&W revolver with a skeleton wire stock. Could this be a revolver which was made for one of those wire stocks?
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Old 02-17-2017, 09:25 AM
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Old 02-17-2017, 09:30 AM
Muley Gil Muley Gil is online now
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I my 50+ years of "Accumulating" firearms and accessories, I recall seeing pictures of a S&W revolver with a skeleton wire stock. Could this be a revolver which was made for one of those wire stocks?
It doesn't appear to be a factory cut in the backstrap. It may take a wire stock like the ones found on the Stevens Tip-up .22 Long Rifle, modified to fit this revolver.
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Old 02-17-2017, 11:50 AM
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Detachable shoulder stocks for various handguns go back to at least the Civil War, if not before. I have even seen caplock single shot pistols having them. There was even experimentation during WWII with shoulder stocks for the Colt M1911 using a modified hammer spring housing for attachment, converting it into a carbine. But in the end, it's not a particularly worthwhile idea as it is cumbersome to carry around a stock and it takes time to attach it when you need it. Probably the only handgun to use a shoulder stock with any degree of success was the Mauser C96 and its variations. As the Chinese seemed to be very fond of the C96, I'd guess that they may have adopted some other handguns laying around, such as this one, to use shoulder stocks. But I don't believe S&W ever made any of their solid-frame revolvers to use shoulder stocks.

I never quite understood why handguns with shoulder stocks were outlawed (without a permit) under the NFA. But many things were outlawed under NFA that I don't understand the reasoning for.
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Old 02-17-2017, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
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Fascinating.

The IA CO SAC CA stamp was used by Pacific International/ARMEX/Inter-American Import Co (the company changed names a few times), and has been observed on other Victory models as well as M1 carbines and other surplus arms.

They did also import Norinco AK's, but I would not necessarily draw any Chinese connection to this interesting modification.
Three friends and I bought four M1 carbines from these folks about 15 years ago with this import stamp. It was stamped in tiny letters on the receiver where the slide would cover it if locked back. Mine was a Rockola and I still have it and sometimes shoot it. The cost was $169.00 each.
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